Anyone just hear Tom Izzo say he has to play a lot of people to develop a bench

[Alsacs]

Bench got some development minutes tonight.

Good to see.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Bench got some development minutes tonight.

Good to see.

Richmond looks like "If Todd Burgan Had Been a Guard". Loved his game. He just fits out there, he brings a lot of activity to the top of the zone. He's green. He made some mistakes. But he was good enough to play, don't you think?

Holy moly, Woody showed me some slick play early on, but then when he and Richmond played the top of the zone together, did we shut them out for about 5 possessions? That was. night and day, and of course, it's only Niagara, but the game before was "only" Bryant.

Joe with another sub-par game, trying a little too hard waving his hands in the second half for a few too many long threes early in the clock, after he had already missed a few.

Q had his best game yet, and looked fully healthy. This is the physically overpowering kid I expected to see more of last year. Alan Griffin had a solid game. Looked for his shot maybe a bit too much, but he's a very good player, and he and Q were very good on the bottom of the zone.

Marek didn't have a great game. Wasn't too assertive. In the second half, I enjoyed JBA's efforts. He looked way better than his cameo a year ago. He's made some progress, and it probably helped him a lot to be going against a different team tonight. Frank didn't show much. He's a good athlete, but so is Jesse. Jesse has some offensive moves. I didn't see any of that from Frank. Neither is great defensively, but I think Frank blocked a shot and maybe altered another one or two.

Bobby Braswell looked better getting more minutes. Who could have predicted that? He's not ready for a big role, but if he gets a few of these kinds of experiences, he might be able to help us in a few games if somebody twists an ankle or fouls out. You want kids who have played enough minutes that if you have to put them out there, they have a chance of knowing what they're supposed to do.

Having 3 athletic guys in the defense is the key. It can't be 3 guys who have trouble guarding people. There was one stretch in the first half, when it was still close, that guys scored over Joe, or going past Joe, on 3 out of 4 possessions. In fairness, on the other offensive possession in the sequence, Niagara scored over Richmond, too.

 

[NKR1978]

Annnnd we’re still freaking out after 1 game. Lol.

One game is pretty good for this fan base. How many “game over” posts have we gotten over the years 10 minutes into the first half. I’d love to go and read the game thread for the Nova game where we down 22-5.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

One game is pretty good for this fan base. How many “game over” posts have we gotten over the years 10 minutes into the first half right after we lose the opening tip. I’d love to go and read the game thread for the Nova game where we down 22-5.

FIFY.

 

[Alsacs]

It doesn’t matter in the ACC because everyone has to get shut down for 14 days if anyone tests positive.

Not so fast.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

All the guys I named played at other schools and still stunk...or are currently in the process of stinking.

riddle me this .. did they force their way to SU or did we recruit and offer them? why we offering bums who can't play scholarships at such a crazy percentage? its either recruiting or coaching or both.

 

[OrangeDW]

riddle me this .. did they force their way to SU or did we recruit and offer them? why we offering bums who can't play scholarships at such a crazy percentage? its either recruiting or coaching or both.

There’s a disconnect somewhere...kids who stink now but might have some raw potential seem to want minutes immediately instead of putting in work and earning them eventually as an upperclassman.

I couldn’t help but think last night how it would’ve been a nice chance for Washington(in normal times, if available - I know he opted out for health reasons)

He’s a PERFECT 4th guard at a school like SU. When even the Howard Washington’s are bouncing because they want PT now...I mean?

 

[Alsacs]

There’s a disconnect somewhere...kids who stink now but might have some raw potential seem to want minutes immediately instead of putting in work and earning them eventually as an upperclassman.

I couldn’t help but think last night how it would’ve been a nice chance for Washington(in normal times, if available - I know he opted out for health reasons)

He’s a PERFECT 4th guard at a school like SU. When even the Howard Washington’s are bouncing because they want PT now...I mean?

The problem is the minutes the bench used to get in the nonconference aren’t given to them.
Because the starters aren’t good enough for blowouts towards a lot of the nonconference teams.

JB used to play the bench early in the season and then shorten the rotation in January. That hasn’t happened because our talent has gone down.

Recruiting needs to be bringing in talent every year.

 

[OrangeDW]

The problem is the minutes used to get in the nonconference aren’t given to them.
Because the starters aren’t good enough for blowout a lot of the nonconference teams.

JB used to play the bench early in the season and then shorten the rotation in January. That hasn’t happened because our talent has gone down.

Recruiting needs to be bringing in talent every year.

That’s true. But Washington actually got some real minutes in some of the big ACC games. There was a stretch where he was getting decent PT.

Goodine - we know he’s pretty athletic and a capable defender. He’s a kid whose shot might start dropping with time, experience, comfort. He was advertised as a decent shooter...it might just take time? Think of a kid like Nichols - one of our best shooters ever but he really didn’t shoot well until his junior year. These kids all seem to want it NOW, when they aren’t even good yet.

 

[NKR1978]

That’s true. But Washington actually got some real minutes in some of the big ACC games. There was a stretch where he was getting decent PT.

Goodine - we know he’s pretty athletic and a capable defender. He’s a kid whose shot might start dropping with time, experience, comfort. He was advertised as a decent shooter...it might just take time? Think of a kid like Nichols - one of our best shooters ever but he really didn’t shoot well until his junior year. These kids all seem to want it NOW, when they aren’t even good yet.

Goodine would have done well here. It's pretty clear a lot of kids don't want to wait any more. I don't necessarily blame them. Not everyone enjoys that Club Trillion lifestyle. Realistically if you're not playing by year 2, I'm not sure you're ever getting off the bench here. But we haven't had anyone really test that in a long time. The only one I can think of somewhat recently was Rautins getting a huge bump in PT his 3rd year, I doubt he would have ever transferred.

 

[CuseCPT]

What a buffoon. Who knows how many more games MSU would have won if they only played starters unless they were hurt or fouled out? If I was a Spartan fan I'd be sick to my stomach.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not so fast.

Read his comments in today's Post-Standard, I don't think that Paulus was too pleased that his whole team just got exposed to the virus.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Goodine would have done well here. It's pretty clear a lot of kids don't want to wait any more. I don't necessarily blame them. Not everyone enjoys that Club Trillion lifestyle. Realistically if you're not playing by year 2, I'm not sure you're ever getting off the bench here. But we haven't had anyone really test that in a long time. The only one I can think of somewhat recently was Rautins getting a huge bump in PT his 3rd year, I doubt he would have ever transferred.

Regardless of the "willing to wait" part, don't you think that Boeheim should have used ONE of the other 3 guards for 10 minutes a game last year? Buddy & Joe still would have gone 35 minutes, for goodness' sake, but we might have kept one of those kids if he had chosen one to try to groom into a serviceable guard.

 

[Alsacs]

Read his comments in today's Post-Standard, I don't think that Paulus was too pleased that his whole team just got exposed to the virus.

My not so fast was in relation to the comment if one player is exposed the whole team will have to shut down for 14 days.

We didn’t do that.
Which goes back to the OP where Tom Izzo said he has to play his bench to develop them in case a player becomes exposed then he has players ready to play. Instead of players who have just sat on the bench without playing time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

My not so fast was in relation to the comment if one player is exposed the whole team will have to shut down for 14 days.

We didn’t do that.
Which goes back to the OP where Tom Izzo said he has to play his bench to develop them in case a player becomes exposed then he has players ready to play. Instead of players who have just sat on the bench without playing time.

Apparently, Boeheim is gonna Boeheim. I ain't wearing no stinkin' mask. I'm the one who was exposed? Well, you kids are young and strong. Get over it.

 

[NKR1978]

Regardless of the "willing to wait" part, don't you think that Boeheim should have used ONE of the other 3 guards for 10 minutes a game last year? Buddy & Joe still would have gone 35 minutes, for goodness' sake, but we might have kept one of those kids if he had chosen one to try to groom into a serviceable guard.

Yes. But Boeheim going to do what Boeheim do. (I probably mangled that quote) He's not changing. We've been having these same discussions for literally decades. When the recruiting is good and the wins are piling up it's fun and we live with it. When we average 14 losses a year it's a bit exhausting.

 

[maxxyz]

The problem is the minutes the bench used to get in the nonconference aren’t given to them.
Because the starters aren’t good enough for blowouts towards a lot of the nonconference teams.

JB used to play the bench early in the season and then shorten the rotation in January. That hasn’t happened because our talent has gone down.

Recruiting needs to be bringing in talent every year.

No doubt our recruiting has taken a hit in the last five years, but our scheduling has changed considerably in the 21st century (for a variety of reasons).

There are way less cupcakes on the nonconference schedule now than there were 20 years ago. And on the whole mid majors are a lot more competitive than they were 20 years ago. No more scheduling the Washington Generals with the walkons playing the last 10 minutes.

 

[billsin01]

Carey or Goodine could have turned into decent players with time and patience. Who's to say that Carey couldn't have turned into a DeShawn Williams or Allen Griffen type of player, or that Goodine could have been another Scoop Jardine, Greg Monroe or Tony Bland. Not necessarily stars, but good enough players to be contributors in a rotation on a pretty good team.

Well, Scoop, for one, played 20 mpg in 33 games with 10 starts as a true freshman and scored 5 ppg with a couple assists on 46% shooting. Goodine wasn't that. Would he have been Scoop as a third-year guy? Maybe, but he didn't want to wait and find out (not knocking Goodine, just simply pointing out that he didn't want to hang around and redshirt like Scoop).

Carey played 12 mpg as a frosh, had some ups and downs. He was given every opportunity to sieze the lead guard role as a soph but it didn't happen and then he got hurt. Seemed like a good kid, clearly had talent, but again, didn't want to wait to find out.

The patience piece is as much on the kids as it is the coaches. I don't begrudge any of them for moving on but this is a different era. Really tough to groom kids for a year or two these days.

 

[billsin01]

They might surprise us. I guarantee there are no surprises to the coaches. They see these guys every day in practice.

We need to recruit better to where we have a playable bench - I agree there. I hope we’ve got one this year.

<sigh>. Coaches are never wrong. They know everything.

Coaches can be wrong, even JB, obviously. I don't think there's any doubt that a decent rotation of 8-9 would be preferable to 6 or even 7. But I think recruiting has been where we've struggled. Even where we've had successes they haven't been traditional -- Elijah was an under the radar kid who transferred in, Marek was a complete unknown, Woody, if he turns into something, was not a home run signing, etc.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Goodine would have done well here. It's pretty clear a lot of kids don't want to wait any more. I don't necessarily blame them. Not everyone enjoys that Club Trillion lifestyle. Realistically if you're not playing by year 2, I'm not sure you're ever getting off the bench here. But we haven't had anyone really test that in a long time. The only one I can think of somewhat recently was Rautins getting a huge bump in PT his 3rd year, I doubt he would have ever transferred.

What about The Great Frankie Howard?

 

[malpearl31]

Regardless of the "willing to wait" part, don't you think that Boeheim should have used ONE of the other 3 guards for 10 minutes a game last year? Buddy & Joe still would have gone 35 minutes, for goodness' sake, but we might have kept one of those kids if he had chosen one to try to groom into a serviceable guard.

It doesn't get talked about a lot, but I think one of the problems with the distribution of minutes last year was that neither of the bench options (Howard or Brycen) were able to back-up both guard spots. And so that 10 minutes per game essentially ended up getting split between two kids, and neither of them was happy about it.
From where I sat, it looked as though JB was not comfortable with Brycen's ability to run point, so JB only used him to back up Buddy - and all of the backup minutes at the point went to Howard (who was almost never used at the 2-guard spot). And since neither guy shot the ball well or consistently posed a threat on the offensive end, they both struggled to earn more minutes as the season progressed.

Hopefully, the difference this year is that Kadary will be able to essentially fill both roles - a ball handler who can create opportunities for himself and for others - which will allow JB to give him many more minutes than he did to the combination of Brycen and Howard. That's the hope - and if last night's game is a good indicator, hopefully that's the way it will play out.

 

[NKR1978]

What about The Great Frankie Howard?

I completely blocked him from my memory.

 

[jncuse]

Coaches can be wrong, even JB, obviously. I don't think there's any doubt that a decent rotation of 8-9 would be preferable to 6 or even 7. But I think recruiting has been where we've struggled. Even where we've had successes they haven't been traditional -- Elijah was an under the radar kid who transferred in, Marek was a complete unknown, Woody, if he turns into something, was not a home run signing, etc.

If you read this board you would have known he was the next Keith Van Horn.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No doubt our recruiting has taken a hit in the last five years, but our scheduling has changed considerably in the 21st century (for a variety of reasons).

There are way less cupcakes on the nonconference schedule now than there were 20 years ago. And on the whole mid majors are a lot more competitive than they were 20 years ago. No more scheduling the Washington Generals with the walkons playing the last 10 minutes.

I agree. But JB figured out the RPI and strength of schedule and how it impacts the bubble for over 10 years now. Once the Donte Greene team failed to make it, he did his best to not let the schedule undermine our resume for the tournament. Many fewer NYS teams, a few of which really brought our computer ratings down a few times. He learned from that.

And you're also right that all these mid-majors are more talented than they used to be. Since elite talent tends not to stick around very long, experienced mid-majors are way more competitive than they used to be.

 

[blust2i3d4]

His team almost got mercied by Detroit Mercy.