Anyone just hear Tom Izzo say he has to play a lot of people to develop a bench

[OrangeDW]

I hope your right.
I don’t see it.
Unless the players are significantly better than I see them.
The only player we as fans have no clue on is Kadary Richmond.
If he is really good then this team could be good if he actual minutes each game.

Yeah, we’ve all literally seen him for 9 minutes so who knows?

But I thought he looked good. And that was mainly against zone. He’s advertised as being a guy who can get to the hoop against man to man. Hope they’re right because we will need that.

But I liked what I saw. Particularly I liked that he looked in control and like he knew how to play. That pullup jumper in transition and that pass to Quincy on the fast break both really stood out IMO.

 

[sufandu]

Then the staff has to be better at bringing in talent.

We have no guard commitments for 2021.
We lost our top 2022 guard target.

When we will actually have 4 quality guards?

So we can actually have quality depth that can play.

It's the sanctions. We can't recruit an ACC level starting 5 and adequate depth because of the sanctions.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The days of Trevor Cooney redshirting and MCW waiting his turn are over. Those guys transfer in this day and age. 3 guards should be fine if you have someone like Griffin who can swing to the 2 in a pinch.

 

[OrangeDW]

The days of Trevor Cooney redshirting and MCW waiting his turn are over. Those guys transfer in this day and age. 3 guards should be fine if you have someone like Griffin who can swing to the 2 in a pinch.

Yeah. That’s what we had in 2003. Edelin, GMac, Duany...and then Pace could swing to 2(really Duany was more of a 3 who moved to the 2 as well).

2010 - Triche, Rautins, and Scoop.

Having an MCW as the 4th was rare. I just don’t remember the 4th guard ever really being a factor? It’s nice to have, but in most years it’s not going to make an ounce of difference on your record.

 

[oTTo113445]

rotational and situational players are different as well.

Like vs a press,while using a press, a team with no interior scoring, or a team that cant stop you from raining assists ( @ GT last year).

 

[pearl31]

It's completely fair (and on target) to say recruiting has not been where it should be for a while now, for whatever reason(s) (signing Benny gives me hope).
It's also fair to say JB has not/does not use his bench adequately, a gripe I've had for yrs now.
But to be making big proclamations based apparently on the first oddity of a game in an oddity of a season, and on Tom Izzo's philosophy is... weird.
Yep, this could turn out to be a repeat or worse of last year - or it could turn out to be a really good team - just gotta hold off a bit, IMO, on the sweeping program indictments.
(and yes, I'll be terribly disappointed/PO'd if Kadary gets minimal time at the expense of Girard getting 35+)

 

[Sherman20]

I’m trying to be as straight forward as possible. In college, I like 7-8.

2003 - Edelin, Pace, McNeil
2010 - Scoop, Joseph

Best example of a strong 8 and a strong 7, I can think of. Those guys were good players though.

A lot of these recent years have not been ideal at all. I say we didn’t have 7 or 8. Some people...think we did, I guess? And some people think we should’ve played it like we did, regardless?

All these bench guys averaged more than 10mpg:
2008-09—Rautins, Ongaenat, Kris Joseph (Rick Jackson started more games than Rautins or Kristof. Rautins had 10 starts, Kristof had 12.)
2010-11—Dion, Fair, Southerland, Keita (Fab started but only averaged 10mpg, less than the other four bench players)
2011-2012—Dion, Fair, Southerland, Keita, MCW (Christmas started but played less mpg than the top four bench guys. MCW was nominally in the rotation earlier in the season.)
2013—Southerland/Grant, Keita, Cooney (Dajuan Coleman started 19 of 24 games before his injury, but played less than Southerland, Grant and Keita)

 

[NKR1978]

It’s just right in front of our eyes. When was the last time we were ranked in January?

It'll be 7 years in January. Only ranked in one poll after January since the 2014 season. Though, that was a good one.

 

[pearl31]

It'll be 7 years in January. Only ranked in one poll after January since the 2014 season. Though, that was a good one.

I'd def agree w Alsacs here, this poll fact might be the most indicative of the state of things

 

[IthacaMatt]

seems like a 2018 post.

Roster is in a lot better shape now. I think we’ll be pretty good this year, and then we bring most of the guys back and add Benny.

Doesn't matter if you don't play some of the guys on the bench.

 

[OrangeDW]

Doesn't matter if you don't play some of the guys on the bench.

Annnnd we’re still freaking out after 1 game. Lol.

 

[IthacaMatt]

How is the roster in better shape?
In 2018 we only had 11 scholarships this year we have 13.

1. Joe Girard
2. Buddy Boeheim
3. Allen Griffin
4. Quincy Guerrier
5. Marek Dolezaj
6. Bourama Sidibe
7. Kadary Richmond
8. Jesse Edwards
9. Robert Braswell
10. Jon Bol Ajak
11. Frank Anslem
12. Wayne Newton
13. Chaz Owens

I mean we have a ton of projects and none of them are guards.
Sorry but Buddy Boeheim and Joe Girard with a good PG Could be solid but it’s likely just above average in this context of college basketball contention.
So Richmond is our hope. Again it’s hope.
Is the gameplan patience again?

It’s frustrating if people are objective. I don’t have an agenda. It’s gotten to the point though if you actually ask these question you are a hater. When its reasonable frustration.
I defend JB when it’s from stupid people who just want to attack. My take is are we going to be contenders or just pretend.

If the first game against Bryant is any indicator (taking into account the past several seasons), I think it's fair to say two things: (1) the starting lineup is not in the Top 5 of the ACC, and (2) if you can't get on the floor against Bryant or Niagara, then it looks like only the first 7 of the 13 scholarship players are going to see meaningful minutes, and maybe #8 or #9 can get some scraps.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Annnnd we’re still freaking out after 1 game. Lol.

It's a pattern. Do you not see it?
Last year, only six guys got more than 10 minutes a game.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It'll be 7 years in January. Only ranked in one poll after January since the 2014 season. Though, that was a good one.

Since that time (over the last SIX YEARS), we have averaged 14 losses per season. FOURTEEN LOSSES.

That has only happened one time in his entire career before this stretch.
I will admit that they came close a couple times, but this has only happened *once before*, in 45 years.

How much evidence does it take to show that the results are not the same, and the approach should be questioned?

Because the product he's putting on the floor is nowhere near our historical standards.
He needs to be more flexible.

The guys who he has decided are "good enough" and "give us our best chance to win" clearly do not meet that expectation.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's a pattern. Do you not see it?
Last year, only six guys got more than 10 minutes a game.

Last year only 6 guys didn’t stink.

I think we’ve got at least 7 that dont stink. Haven’t seen enough of Frank or sophomore Edwards yet to decide...or Ajak or Newton.

 

[OrangeDW]

Since that time (over the last SIX YEARS), we have averaged 14 losses per season. FOURTEEN LOSSES.

That has only happened one time in his entire career before this stretch.
I will admit that they came close a couple times, but this has only happened *once before*, in 45 years.

How much evidence does it take to show that the results are not the same, and the approach should be questioned?

Because the product he's putting on the floor is nowhere near our historical standards.
He needs to be more flexible.

Yeah, more Matt Moyer, Jalen Carey, Brycen Goodine, and Ron Patterson would’ve fixed it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Last year only 6 guys didn’t stink.

I think we’ve got at least 7 that dont stink. Haven’t seen enough of Frank or sophomore Edwards yet to decide...or Ajak or Newton.

With all due respect, how do we know whether or not guys are any good, if they never get the chance to play 10 minutes a game for a few weeks? Let them get over their nerves. Maybe the coach will find some new combinations that work together. You don't find out if you don't try. Practice is not games.

 

[OrangeDW]

With all due respect, how do we know whether or not guys are any good, if they never get the chance to play 10 minutes a game for a few weeks? Let them get over their nerves. Maybe the coach will find some new combinations that work together. You don't find out if you don't try. Practice is not games.

All the guys I named played at other schools and still stunk...or are currently in the process of stinking.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, more Matt Moyer, Jalen Carey, Brycen Goodine, and Ron Patterson would’ve fixed it.

Carey or Goodine could have turned into decent players with time and patience. Who's to say that Carey couldn't have turned into a DeShawn Williams or Allen Griffen type of player, or that Goodine could have been another Scoop Jardine, Greg Monroe or Tony Bland. Not necessarily stars, but good enough players to be contributors in a rotation on a pretty good team.

 

[NateW]

Carey or Goodine could have turned into decent players with time and patience. Who's to say that Carey couldn't have turned into a DeShawn Williams or Allen Griffen type of player, or that Goodine could have been another Scoop Jardine, Greg Monroe or Tony Bland. Not necessarily stars, but good enough players to be contributors in a rotation on a pretty good team.

Who’s to say?

The tape.

 

[OrangeDW]

Carey or Goodine could have turned into decent players with time and patience. Who's to say that Carey couldn't have turned into a DeShawn Williams or Allen Griffen type of player, or that Goodine could have been another Scoop Jardine, Greg Monroe or Tony Bland. Not necessarily stars, but good enough players to be contributors in a rotation on a pretty good team.

Deshaun came in and lit it up as a freshman on a great team, multiple times. He was way better than Carey at the same stage, talent wise. If Jalen avoids the McDonalds and beer diet and stays out of trouble, he might be able to be a better player in a few years - but he’ll never have the natural talent Deshaun had.

Scoop, Bland, and Griffin all showed something year 1 too. I remember Griff getting buckets in the BET his freshman year.

It’s year 2 for Goodine. Year 3 for Carey. Neither one can even start for Providence/Rhode Island at this point.

 

[IthacaMatt]

All the guys I named played at other schools and still stunk...or are currently in the process of stinking.

OK, how would you characterize our injury record over the last six years?
Do you think it's been higher or lower than the average before?

I think it's been more guys playing injured than I ever recall before, and that's not good for either the player or the team. That's just one reason I would like to see a bit deeper rotation.

I think tired players tend to get hurt more often.
I think playing injured players instead of healthy ones creates mismatch problems within games as the other coach notices that a guy cannot move a certain way, or move well.

I understanding leaning on your best players, but if your best players have shortcomings, you have to use other guys to fill in those missing skills that a well rounded team needs.

And if your starters can't give you what you need, you're foolish not to try out some of the other guys on your bench, just to see what they can give you in a game. Sometimes players surprise you. It happens.

 

[OrangeDW]

And if your starters can't give you what you need, you're foolish not to try out some of the other guys on your bench, just to see what they can give you in a game. Sometimes players surprise you. It happens.

They might surprise us. I guarantee there are no surprises to the coaches. They see these guys every day in practice.

We need to recruit better to where we have a playable bench - I agree there. I hope we’ve got one this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They might surprise us. I guarantee there are no surprises to the coaches. They see these guys every day in practice.

We need to recruit better to where we have a playable bench - I agree there. I hope we’ve got one this year.

<sigh>. Coaches are never wrong. They know everything.

 

[OrangeDW]

<sigh>. Coaches are never wrong. They know everything.

Not what I said. There are no surprises unless you’re a complete idiot/not paying attention.