Anyone just hear Tom Izzo say he has to play a lot of people to develop a bench

[malpearl31]

yep...Not 48 minutes.

Thanks...how about the bubble playoffs.

There are so many factors that make a minute per game comparison of "the bubble playoffs" to "Syracuse games" worthless, that I won't do your homework for you. It's pretty easy to find those stats, though, if you're interested in comparing apples and elephants.

 

[Alsacs]

seems like a 2018 post.

Roster is in a lot better shape now. I think we’ll be pretty good this year, and then we bring most of the guys back and add Benny.

How is the roster in better shape?
In 2018 we only had 11 scholarships this year we have 13.

1. Joe Girard
2. Buddy Boeheim
3. Allen Griffin
4. Quincy Guerrier
5. Marek Dolezaj
6. Bourama Sidibe
7. Kadary Richmond
8. Jesse Edwards
9. Robert Braswell
10. Jon Bol Ajak
11. Frank Anslem
12. Wayne Newton
13. Chaz Owens

I mean we have a ton of projects and none of them are guards.
Sorry but Buddy Boeheim and Joe Girard with a good PG Could be solid but it’s likely just above average in this context of college basketball contention.
So Richmond is our hope. Again it’s hope.
Is the gameplan patience again?

It’s frustrating if people are objective. I don’t have an agenda. It’s gotten to the point though if you actually ask these question you are a hater. When its reasonable frustration.
I defend JB when it’s from stupid people who just want to attack. My take is are we going to be contenders or just pretend.

 

[djcon57]

There are so many factors that make a minute per game comparison of "the bubble playoffs" to "Syracuse games" worthless, that I won't do your homework for you. It's pretty easy to find those stats, though, if you're interested in comparing apples and elephants.

I already did before my initial post. I want you guys to do the homework...its understandable why wouldnt post the bubble stats. No one had over 41 a game. Only 2 players over 40. It’s almost like teams that don’t get full training camps and practices don’t just play the same 5 guys. Luckily, we...oh wait, we didn’t practice for 2 weeks...

2020 NBA Playoffs Stats: Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[OrangeDW]

How is the roster in better shape?
In 2018 we only had 11 scholarships this year we have 13.

1. Joe Girard
2. Buddy Boeheim
3. Allen Griffin
4. Quincy Guerrier
5. Marek Dolezaj
6. Bourama Sidibe
7. Kadary Richmond
8. Jesse Edwards
9. Robert Braswell
10. Jon Bol Ajak
11. Frank Anslem
12. Wayne Newton
13. Chaz Owens

I mean we have a ton of projects and none of them are guards.
Sorry but Buddy Boeheim and Joe Girard with a good PG is a good rotation.
So Richmond is our hope. Again it’s hope.
Is the gameplan patience again?

It’s frustrating if people are objective. I don’t have an agenda. It’s gotten to the point though if you actually ask these question you are a hater. When its reasonable frustration.
I defend JB when it’s from stupid people who just want to attack.

Because we’ve got a solid top 7 (6 guys who have proven they can play and a freshman who looks good)with a few other guys after them with potential.

2018 we were playing Matt Moyer heavy minutes and a walkon big minutes in an NCAA tourney game. It’s not even close, IMO.

 

[OrangeDW]

I already did before my initial post. I want you guys to do the homework...its understandable why wouldnt post the bubble stats. No one had over 41 a game. Only 2 players over 40. It’s almost like teams that don’t get full training camps and practices don’t just play the same 5 guys. Luckily, we...oh wait, we didn’t practice for 2 weeks...

2020 NBA Playoffs Stats: Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

I don’t remember...why are we talking about the NBA as a comparison? The worst guy who doesn’t even dress for the games can give you 30 on a random night.

 

[Alsacs]

Because we’ve got a solid top 7 (6 guys who have proven they can play and a freshman who looks good)with a few other guys after them with potential.

2018 we were playing Matt Moyer heavy minutes and a walkon big minutes in an NCAA tourney game. It’s not even close, IMO.

2018 the program was dealing with sanctions.
Just making the tournament was good.

2020 the program should have slightly higher expectations.

I really don’t get the point.

Patience was reasonable in 2019 when should we be consistently top 25?
It’s gotten to the point we rely on the starters to just be slightly above average.

Is that what the program is? Okay then we as fans have to acknowledge that. Stop pretending we are more than what we are.

 

[malpearl31]

It just amazes a decent portion of this fanbase won’t acknowledge our coaching staff has screwed up roster management and it’s a major reason we are where we are.

Sanctions aren’t why the roster is what it currently is.
I want to be relevant. If we are going to say this program is a top program then let’s see it.
Last year being patient was understandable but c’mon enough is enough.
I really hope the opener was an outlier I just don’t believe it is.

The starting 5 is not a top 25 team IMO.

In my opinion, you're creating a strawman argument. I think a lot of people acknowledge that roster management (or talent level) hasn't been what it used to be. I have no issue criticizing the staff for some major recruiting misses in the past several years (starting with Kaleb, and moving on more recently to Moyer, Jalen and Brycen).

You say that last year it was understandable to be patient, but that 1 game into this season enough is enough. Me and a lot of others appear a little more willing to give the staff and the players time to develop and improve this year - if you're not willing to do that, that's cool, too.

I think we can crack the Top 25 this year (though Sid's injury hurts), and I'm gonna root like hell that they do.

 

[OrangeDW]

2018 the program was dealing with sanctions.
Just making the tournament was good.

2020 the program should have slightly higher expectations.

I really don’t get the point.

Patience was reasonable in 2019 when should we be consistently top 25?
It’s gotten to the point we rely on the starters to just be slightly above average.

Is that what the program is? Okay then we as fans have to acknowledge that. Stop pretending we are more than what we are.

The point is we’re in a lot better shape and things are going the right way. I don’t understand why you’re still complaining about roster management. That’s old stuff, IMO.

Is it all about not having a 4th guard?

 

[djcon57]

I don’t remember...why are we talking about the NBA as a comparison? The worst guy who doesn’t even dress for the games can give you 30 on a random night.

you said “You think we’d be better by playing worse players more”

im using your logic to ask why nba players don’t play the whole game? Is Lebron James better than his backup? Why doesn’t he play the whole game?

 

[OrangeDW]

you said “You think we’d be better by playing worse players more”

i using your logic to ask why nba players don’t play the whole game? Is Lebron James better than his backup? Why doesn’t he play the whole game?

But that’s...the NBA. Even the guys that “suck” are really good. Good teams often bring all star level guys off the bench. There’s only 30 teams. The talent is concentrated...especially so on the playoff teams.

 

[Alsacs]

In my opinion, you're creating a strawman argument. I think a lot of people acknowledge that roster management (or talent level) hasn't been what it used to be. I have no issue criticizing the staff for some major recruiting misses in the past several years (starting with Kaleb, and moving on more recently to Moyer, Jalen and Brycen).

You say that last year it was understandable to be patient, but that 1 game into this season enough is enough. Me and a lot of others appear a little more willing to give the staff and the players time to develop and improve this year - if you're not willing to do that, that's cool, too.

I think we can crack the Top 25 this year (though Sid's injury hurts), and I'm gonna root like hell that they do.

I don’t think this roster is that good.
I think we are slightly above average in the ACC.
That is the frustration.
I call it the way I see it.
If people want to be optimistic go ahead.
That is the point.
If we have to rely on the starters to be marathon men. I don’t see it.

The problem is our fanbase(not directed at you) considers realism to be haterism.

 

[djcon57]

But that’s...the NBA. Even the guys that “suck” are really good. Good teams often bring all star level guys off the bench. There’s only 30 teams. The talent is concentrated...especially so on the playoff teams.

is 48 mins of Lebron better or worse than 40 mins and 8 of his backup who doesn’t suck?
Why do backups play...we aren’t getting the the heart of your comment. YOU said that worse players playing more is bad. Im saying good players playing less (getting sufficient rest to play full speed at the end of games) Is preferred. I think what Izzo said and is what most nba players and coaches believe. Fouls happen, injuries happen.

 

[OrangeDW]

is 48 mins of Lebron better or worse than 40 mins and 8 of his backup who doesn’t suck?

I’m...still baffled. It’s a pointless discussion. They’re barely the same game. Why not just compare it to the good college teams?

 

[Alsacs]

I’m...still baffled. It’s a pointless discussion. They’re barely the same game. Why not just compare it to the good college teams?

He is arguing the point because another poster wants to come in and just the circle the wagons behind JB never being wrong.

That is a problem within this fanbase. SU fans can respect the greatness of Jim Boeheim and fans can have their own opinions which is what caused the argument you are in.

 

[malpearl31]

I’m...still baffled. It’s a pointless discussion. They’re barely the same game. Why not just compare it to the good college teams?

I tried to find a gif of Joe Pesce from My Cousin Vinny - where he mockingly says to Marisa Tomei, "You did it! You cracked the case!"

Comparing NBA playoff minutes per game to college basketball minutes per game is a colossally stupid endeavor.

 

[City of Cuse]

is 48 mins of Lebron better or worse than 40 mins and 8 of his backup who doesn’t suck?
Why do backups play...we aren’t getting the the heart of your comment. YOU said that worse players playing more is bad. Im saying good players playing less (getting sufficient rest to play full speed at the end of games) Is preferred. I think what Izzo said and is what most nba players and coaches believe. Fouls happen, injuries happen.

Okay man, you win the argument no one cares about. Congrats, your prize is you can tell your significant other some guys said something on the board and you gave them a wag of the finger.

 

[oTTo113445]

It's rare for a player to suddenly become ready midseason. Usually, you can tell if they will be in the rotation 13 games in. Last year was a great example because we needed to sub backup guards in for defense, but both got pulled when the offense went stagnant. Where people looked at our backup guards as rotational they were really an occasional insert to slow the other team down. Excited to see what Girard adds to his game this year. Rotational means you can play yourself into another 7 minutes a game, every game, not just in a pinch.

Just watched number 2 for texas play pretty much the whole game and win the game.

 

[djcon57]

Okay man, you win the argument no one cares about. Congrats, your prize is you can tell your significant other some guys said something on the board and you gave them a wag of the finger.

wow. Reread the post and let me know who got emotional here. I’d didnt know this was such serious business

 

[OrangeDW]

He is arguing the point because another poster wants to come in and just the circle the wagons behind JB never being wrong.

That is a problem within this fanbase. SU fans can respect the greatness of Jim Boeheim and fans can have their own opinions which is what caused the argument you are in.

I’m trying to be as straight forward as possible. In college, I like 7-8.

2003 - Edelin, Pace, McNeil
2010 - Scoop, Joseph

Best example of a strong 8 and a strong 7, I can think of. Those guys were good players though.

A lot of these recent years have not been ideal at all. I say we didn’t have 7 or 8. Some people...think we did, I guess? And some people think we should’ve played it like we did, regardless?

 

[City of Cuse]

wow. Reread the post and let me know who got emotional here. I’d didnt know this was just serious business.

Oh are you that same guy hahaha. Our worlds are colliding.

Thought it came off as a joke, but maybe you're worked up about NBA minutes?

 

[djcon57]

Oh are you that same guy hahaha. Our worlds are colliding.

Thought it came off as a joke, but maybe you're worked up about NBA minutes?

no, but you keep calling people emotional...and it kinda seems like you are the one who’s emotional. OrangeDW and I have talked on this board for years, I would hope he knows were talking sports whether we agree or not. For some reason you chose to chime in.

 

[OrangeDW]

is 48 mins of Lebron better or worse than 40 mins and 8 of his backup who doesn’t suck?
Why do backups play...we aren’t getting the the heart of your comment. YOU said that worse players playing more is bad. Im saying good players playing less (getting sufficient rest to play full speed at the end of games) Is preferred. I think what Izzo said and is what most nba players and coaches believe. Fouls happen, injuries happen.

NBA teams can bring players in off the bench and not miss a beat. You may even get away with mostly subs in and your top 2 players out, and still not lose any ground.

Put Washington, Goodine, and Edwards in at the same time for 5 minutes and we might not score a point.

Put Edelin, Pace, and McNeil in at the same time, and we win a 2nd round tourney game.

 

[djcon57]

NBA teams can bring players in off the bench and not miss a beat. You may even get away with mostly subs in and your top 2 players out, and still not lose any ground.

Put Washington, Goodine, and Edwards in at the same time for 5 minutes and we might not score a point.

I get that. I never suggested brining in 3 guys at once. You got to steal mins where you can...and we just dont anymore

 

[Alsacs]

I’m trying to be as straight forward as possible. In college, I like 7-8.

2003 - Edelin, Pace, McNeil
2010 - Scoop, Joseph

Best example of a strong 8 and a strong 7, I can think of. Those guys were good players though.

A lot of these recent years have not been ideal at all. I say we didn’t have 7 or 8. Some people...think we did, I guess? And some people think we should’ve played it like we did, regardless?

I hope your right.
I don’t see it.
Unless the players are significantly better than I see them.
The only player we as fans have no clue on is Kadary Richmond.
If he is really good then this team could be good if he actual gets minutes each game.

 

[City of Cuse]

no, but you keep calling people emotional...and it kinda seems like you are the one who’s emotional. OrangeDW and I have talked on this board for years, I would hope he knows were talking sports whether we agree or not. For some reason you chose to chime in.

My fault, didn't know i couldn't make fun of someone in a loving syracuse way on a syracuse sports forum for having a bad take.

I have plenty of bad takes, I won't take offense at your replies.