Anything less than a top 25 season next year should be unacceptable | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Anything less than a top 25 season next year should be unacceptable

We are on different spectrums here. It’s more than 5 or 6 teams a year. Any of our teams from 08-14 could have won a title. They all were better than 2 UConn teams that actually won titles.
Cusefan0307 said:
We’ve had multiple teams each decade that have been a 4 seed or higher. That is what I consider title contending teams.
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Cusefan0307 said:
We were one of them.

Our 2013 team metrically is better than 2003. They won 30
games and finished second in a much tougher conference than we are in now.

And nobody is expecting a 2010 like team every year.

One or two NiT teams a decade is fine. We should
not be on the bubble 8 straight years.

Our sister program(Arizona) to the west didn’t put up with this garbage and we shouldn’t either.
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Agreed. Your posts here are so spot-on about what our expectations should be. I also really liked that 2015-16 team. They were underrated. JB’s suspension really hurt that team’s confidence for a while mid-season and so they lost some unexpected games. They were a solid top 30 or 40 in KenPom, hence why they got the 10 seed and were safely in the bracket. They proved how high their potential was in that tourney by knocking off Gonzaga and UVA. But we’ve been thoroughly mediocre since then.
 
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pearl31 said:
see, you're being so transparently disingenuous that it's not worth engaging w you anymore
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I ignored that clown weeks ago when he showed up in a game thread and spent it attacking other posters for their lack of basketball knowledge.
 
Fly Rodder said:
I ignored that clown weeks ago when he showed up in a game thread and spent it attacking other posters for their lack of basketball knowledge.
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I didn’t attack anyone, never have. Didn’t realize you could be so soft to think that discourse = attacking. If I “attacked” people, then you’re attacking me right now and you don’t even have the cojones to tag me.
 
pearl31 said:
see, you're being so transparently disingenuous that it's not worth engaging w you anymore
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How am I being disingenuous? By pointing out that we have no idea what would’ve happened in the event the tournament was held in the Covid year or if Syracuse got to participate in the ACC tournament? Sorry I’m not a clairvoyant like you.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
...

Our 2011 team beat UConn in Storrs and they won the title. We got screwed with a bad call against Scoop in a horrible matchup against Marquette.
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And were a slow Rick Jackson closeout on Jeremy Lamb away from shutting the door on UConn's run AND improving our NCAA draw.

We'd have had a good chance to beat Louisville for the championship if we'd just closed out the UConn game. 28-6 probably would have gotten us the 2 seed in the East and we'd never have played Marquette.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Nobody is striving to be like Duke and UK.

This is what I expect from SU basketball:

1-2 NIT teams a decade with 1-2 bubble teams that make it.

6-7 years finishing top 5 in the ACC with a 6 seed or better(top 25)

3 legit top 10 teams a decade that can legit contend for a title.

We should be shooting for being Virginia or Villanova. We can do that if we have the proper player development.
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I really think your listed "expectations" are way off the realm of reality. Especially in the current environment of college ball. I am willing to bet that SU will not meet these expectations over the next 20 years.
 
SBU72 said:
I really think your listed "expectations" are way off the realm of reality. Especially in the current environment of college ball. I am willing to bet that SU will not meet these expectations over the next 20 years.
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So what we did from 1984 to 2014 is not attainable again? Because that's what we did.

I don't accept that. It's a losing attitude.

It's exactly what has happened to football and lacrosse.
 
SBU72 said:
I really think your listed "expectations" are way off the realm of reality. Especially in the current environment of college ball. I am willing to bet that SU will not meet these expectations over the next 20 years.
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I can’t with this. Why pray tell can’t we meet those expectations when lots of lesser programs are doing just that? What do you think the expectations should be?
 
Maybe it's a matter of goals vs. expectations. Top 25 means Top 2 or 3 in the ACC. Great goal, but expectations here seem to align more with being well inside the bubble, which allows for roaming in the Forties and Fifties, although that flirts with standing log jams and Selection Sunday white knuckleism.
 
bozophobe said:
Maybe it's a matter of goals vs. expectations. Top 25 means Top 2 or 3 in the ACC. Great goal, but expectations here seem to align more with being well inside the bubble, which allows for roaming in the Forties and Fifties, although that flirts with standing log jams and Selection Sunday white knuckleism.
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Expecting to be ranked in the top 25 should not be a difficult goal for Syracuse basketball. We finished ranked top 25 in the AP poll in 25 out of 30 seasons from 84-2014. 16 of those seasons we finished in the top 15 and 7 in the top 10.

From 1982 to 2016 we were ranked in the AP poll at least once during the season. That is 35 straight seasons.

Now we have gone 4 out of 5 seasons of never being ranked. I refuse to lower my expectations. Some coach can come in here and get it done.
 
bozophobe said:
Maybe it's a matter of goals vs. expectations. Top 25 means Top 2 or 3 in the ACC. Great goal, but expectations here seem to align more with being well inside the bubble, which allows for roaming in the Forties and Fifties, although that flirts with standing log jams and Selection Sunday white knuckleism.
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ACC has been down but no reason it can't have 5-6 ranked teams. I don't agree top 2-3 would be the threshold.
 
Based upon what we think we know now, Top 25 is out of the question next season.

Assume we have back for the core - Jesse, Joe, Benny, and Symir. Assume we add Judah to the frosh class. That is not a Top 25 squad next season. If the frosh turn out to meet or exceed expectations maybe the following season.

IMHO, for us to be Top 25 next season we will need at least two above average starting caliber players from the portal. Then maybe we can talk.
 
newmexicuse said:
Based upon what we think we know now, Top 25 is out of the question next season.

Assume we have back for the core - Jesse, Joe, Benny, and Symir. Assume we add Judah to the frosh class. That is not a Top 25 squad next season. If the frosh turn out to meet or exceed expectations maybe the following season.

IMHO, for us to be Top 25 next season we will need at least two above average starting caliber players from the portal. Then maybe we can talk.
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Your last paragraph is exactly the point. The coach needs to stop setting for a roster that isn’t filled.
 
newmexicuse said:
Based upon what we think we know now, Top 25 is out of the question next season.

Assume we have back for the core - Jesse, Joe, Benny, and Symir. Assume we add Judah to the frosh class. That is not a Top 25 squad next season. If the frosh turn out to meet or exceed expectations maybe the following season.

IMHO, for us to be Top 25 next season we will need at least two above average starting caliber players from the portal. Then maybe we can talk.
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I'm gonna play Positive Pete here.

I think Jesse can be one of the best centers in the nation and, if Cole returns, we have a dynamic scorer.
The defense will improve BIGLY without the B's.
If we can get anything at PG, Joe can move to the 2.

We just saw last year what a difference it was when we were able to play D with Brass and that other guy.

I don't think its crazy to say top 25 isnt out of the question, personally
 
Sherman20 said:
I can’t with this. Why pray tell can’t we meet those expectations when lots of lesser programs are doing just that? What do you think the expectations should be?
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What lesser programs have reached that level of sustainability over 10, 20 years! One of the reasons is this quote from above:

"I don't accept that. It's a losing attitude.

It's exactly what has happened to football and lacrosse."

SU has not shown a desire to reach the levels of the expectations expresseded. As a private school it has to worry about funding educational situations above sports. The school/AD hasn't shown no desire to push the programs thus Dino is still there, JB was allowed to sign on for another 5 years when he faced with retirement. What are the odds of SU spending more for the next coach than JB or going the easy route and elevating a current assistant. Of all the names bandied about which will come even at the current level of JB's salary. Remember I'm talking about the 10 year level of expectations, and it'll probably take at least 2 years for any coach to get to there and thats 20% of the next 10 years. And I doubt that a current assistant can do it in 2 years. And until you get an idea of how committed the school is, setting expectations is just a wish list.

And food for thought, the level of excellence the program had was a combination of the commitment of JB to the program and ESPN/ Big East. Not from the school. The school was more or less along for the ride.
 
djcon57 said:
Jim didn't want to leave Manley.
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Yup, but school pushed him into an existing structure and has kept the team there instead of building a dedicated arena like almost all top level programs.

Just began following the JB and a Plan??? thread and the consensus there is either Hop (which I doubt) or an assistant as next head coach which points to the easier cheaper route that again to me does not show the all in approach need to reach the 10 yr level of expectations discussed here.

To be clear, I would love to see SU get back to the BigEast level of expectations put I don't see signs of it happening.
 
SBU72 said:
What lesser programs have reached that level of sustainability over 10, 20 years! One of the reasons is this quote from above:

"I don't accept that. It's a losing attitude.

It's exactly what has happened to football and lacrosse."

SU has not shown a desire to reach the levels of the expectations expresseded. As a private school it has to worry about funding educational situations above sports. The school/AD hasn't shown no desire to push the programs thus Dino is still there, JB was allowed to sign on for another 5 years when he faced with retirement. What are the odds of SU spending more for the next coach than JB or going the easy route and elevating a current assistant. Of all the names bandied about which will come even at the current level of JB's salary. Remember I'm talking about the 10 year level of expectations, and it'll probably take at least 2 years for any coach to get to there and thats 20% of the next 10 years. And I doubt that a current assistant can do it in 2 years. And until you get an idea of how committed the school is, setting expectations is just a wish list.

And food for thought, the level of excellence the program had was a combination of the commitment of JB to the program and ESPN/ Big East. Not from the school. The school was more or less along for the ride.
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So the school put over 100 million in the dome so far and is putting 150 million into facilities, but won't pay for a basketball coach?

Okayyyyy
 
Cusefan0307 said:
So the school put over 100 million in the dome so far and is putting 150 million into facilities, but won't pay for a basketball coach?

Okayyyyy
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Not to the level that the names people are talking would demand.
JB has 2nd most wins EVER and is underpaid based on that. Is he top 10? 25? Would SU pay those $? What indications do you have that says SU would?
 
SBU72 said:
Not to the level that the names people are talking would demand.
JB has 2nd most wins EVER and is underpaid based on that. Is he top 10? 25? Would SU pay those $? What indications do you have that says SU would?
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JW wasn't AD until 2016.

Good grief. When have we ever spent this much money on facilities?

People need to move away from what happened before he was here.

Long term not investing in your program is a worse financial decision. Fans will leave like they did in football.

Thank god Buzz and Jake are gone.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
JW wasn't AD until 2016.

Good grief. When have we ever spent this much money on facilities?

People need to move away from what happened before he was here.

Long term not investing in your program is a worse financial decision. Fans will leave like they did in football.

Thank god Buzz and Jake are gone.
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Good point. Very valid. One rebuttal, JW had a perfect reason and opportunity to replace Dino but choose to go an "easier" and "cheaper" route but didn't. Does the football coach get 1 yr to show a significant improvement? Does SU look to replace the head coach (per Plan thread) and perhaps their staff after next season? Now that would show commitment!

All comments are showing extremes and there probably is a middle ground thats works.
 
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