are there any JB defenders left? | Page 8 | Syracusefan.com

are there any JB defenders left?

IthacaMatt said:
Syracuse had one of the original NBA franchises. The Nationals. They played here for 12 years, and we won an NBA Championship in 1955.

In a 10 year stretch from 1952 to 1961, we won the championship, lost in the finals, and lost in the Eastern Conference Finals to the Celtics five times.

Syracuse was crazy about basketball, and always has been.

Jim Boeheim didn't invent basketball in Syracuse.

The 24 Second shot clock was invented here in 1954. The Syracuse Nats, like SU football, helped break the color barrier in the NBA with Manny Breland.

At the college level, Syracuse had a coach in the 19-Teens and Early 20s named Edmund Dollard who won almost 72% of his games (151-59) including a Helms National Championship team that went 16-1.

Next, Lew Andreas coached us from the late 20s to the 1950 season. He made the post season 3 times in his last 6 years, and also won a Helms National Championship. His career record was 358-135, almost 73% wins.

Even in the 50s and early 60s under Mark Guley, we made an Elite 8 and had a winning record. Guley had losing records in his last 2 seasons and was replaced by Fred Lewis. It only took Lewis 1 year to get us back to a winning record.

Fred Lewis went 91-57 (.614), but also made an Elite 8 and the NIT twice, when that was still a big deal. Fred Lewis only had ONE MORE losing season, and was replaced by Roy Danforth.

In year one, Danforth had a losing record. But by his 3rd year, we were back in the NIT, beginning a string of 6 straight post-season births. The first 2 were in the NIT before the NCAA expanded beyond 32 teams. The 4 straight NCAAs including the 1975 Final Four, and a Sweet 16 a couple years before that. Danforth's record was 148-71 (almost 68%).

So, just for the record, Syracuse has pretty much ALWAYS been good at basketball.

Past coaches were fired for just 1 or 2 losing seasons, and the people who replaced them never took more than a couple years to be right back to winning ways.

So all you "Chicken Littles" out there who think the SKY WILL BE FALLING if we replace JB; go read some history.

Other coaches would have been fired by now. And our average recovery to post-season is TWO YEARS. Let's start the clock, shall we?
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Great post, IM...I salute you!
 
CorduroyG said:
he built syracuse basketball, hes in the hall of fame, we made the final 4 recently, he deserves to leave whenever he wants, youll be sorry when hes gone, etc etc”

surely theres not any of those people left is there??
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I support JB, for the reasons you stated above.

However, as KCSU mentioned, his coaching brilliance is diminished by apparent inflexibility. I assume ego is causing this rigidness, or maybe its just a trait. The team looked good when they press, yet he goes into a presser with 1,000 reasons why they cannot press more. Its unbelievably frustrating.

I want him to go out a winner, and would support one more shot at that. With what evidence? None. Just pure faith.

There is so much ageism in this world and would rather not condone it here or anywhere.

You don't know what you got until its gone. His replacement could be the next GRob.

If there was a young genius available and willing to take over, then I could be convinced to end it now. But, otherwise, he is probably better than most alternatives, and with the right talent, he could get it done.

You need 8 dogs, and we have 1ish.

The recruitment and development of these players that are currently and recently not successful is of course on him.
 
orangepassion said:
The funny thing is people have been posting this since (at least) 2017.
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Fair point, but I do not have a better answer.

Firing Pasqualoni was an abject failure. We would have been just as good, if not better, with 5 more years of him.

Firing JB without a plan for his successor is rolling the dice. And, its capping his legacy on a shameful note. I just wish he left after the last sweet 16.

But, if there is a plan, then OK.

If there is not a plan, then get one.

You want a young Jay Wright type, if those exist. IMO.
 
I wanted JB to have a chance to "go out on top".
He traded those years to play "dad coach". It was his choice to have his sons on the roster and to make his son the focus of the offense. I'm glad that he got to coach his sons on a national stage but it most likely was at the expense of bringing in players that might have put us in a better position to have more wins.
As to going out on top? That ship has sailed.
I honestly don't think that he can pull the plug on his own. Those of us that have had the pleasure of getting elderly parents to stop driving know that those parents absolutely do not believe that their ability to drive has diminished. He may not go willingly but the keys need to be taken away.
The decision to stop coaching by JB is probably thought of as an end of life decision by him and it's not something that he can easily do by himself.
JB gave us many fun memories and we should be grateful for his contributions to the program.
Thank you for your years of coaching JB!
 
DilemaCuse said:
Idol worship, which I don't get.
At the end of the day, he's just a highly compensated employee. School needs to remember that. Fortune 500 companies remove CEOs all the time.
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Just a highly compensated employee? This is crazy.
 
blust2i3d4 said:
I feel the successor of JB will be much worse. I think JB should coach until he drops dead. At least we are always in the top half of ACC even in our worst years. I predict the new coach will be in the bottom half for a decade then rise to the middle. He will never be in the top half of ACC. SU is just like Georgia Tech in nature. JB is the miracle boost for SU.
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Do you really want him to stick around until he dies? Like you really think that is a good look if he has health issues that causes him to miss games, becomes incapacitated or is diagnosed with something or dies during practice at the Melo Center? Nobody wants to see that.
 
DilemaCuse said:
Do you really want him to stick around until he dies? Like you really think that is a good look if he has health issues that causes him to miss games, becomes incapacitated or is diagnosed with something or dies during practice at the Melo Center? Nobody wants to see that.
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Right. I’ve always been a JB defender. I don’t want him to keep embarrassing himself.

Most of us are bigger JB fans and defenders than those who aren’t being honest about things and want to pretend this is all fine, because we respect him enough to want all this to stop.
 
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Millhouse said:
Just a highly compensated employee? This is crazy.
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Its not for me.

Full disclosure, I'm an HR exec who has executed terminations and mass layoffs. While also being on the receiving end of them earlier in my career. So admittedly I see things through a different prism.

If you don't maintain the Employer-Employee relationship, you create a circus and we are witnessing that currently.
 
DilemaCuse said:
Its not for me.

Full disclosure, I'm an HR exec who has executed terminations and mass layoffs. While also being on the receiving end of them earlier in my career. So admittedly I see things through a different prism.

If you don't maintain the Employer-Employee relationship, you create a circus and we are witnessing that currently.
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Congrats. This isn't like your job
 
swish7 said:
Fair point, but I do not have a better answer.

Firing Pasqualoni was an abject failure. We would have been just as good, if not better, with 5 more years of him.

Firing JB without a plan for his successor is rolling the dice. And, its capping his legacy on a shameful note. I just wish he left after the last sweet 16.

But, if there is a plan, then OK.

If there is not a plan, then get one.

You want a young Jay Wright type, if those exist. IMO.
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No one moves on from a coach without having a short list of realistic candidates to replace him. If Wildhack doesn't have that, or if the plan is already tied to one specific person, it's a bad way to operate. As we've seen through the years, "in the family" type hires can go sideways, and when that happens it gets very awkward having to support a local legend when the results don't justify it.
 
M2MPrinciples said:
No one moves on from a coach without having a short list of realistic candidates to replace him. If Wildhack doesn't have that, or if the plan is already tied to one specific person, it's a bad way to operate. As we've seen through the years, "in the family" type hires can go sideways, and when that happens it gets very awkward having to support a local legend when the results don't justify it.
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Daryl gross says hold my fancy drink with umbrellas and swizzle sticks
 
DilemaCuse said:
Its not for me.

Full disclosure, I'm an HR exec who has executed terminations and mass layoffs. While also being on the receiving end of them earlier in my career. So admittedly I see things through a different prism.

If you don't maintain the Employer-Employee relationship, you create a circus and we are witnessing that currently.
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Ok, Toby.
 
blust2i3d4 said:
I feel the successor of JB will be much worse. I think JB should coach until he drops dead. At least we are always in the top half of ACC even in our worst years. I predict the new coach will be in the bottom half for a decade then rise to the middle. He will never be in the top half of ACC. SU is just like Georgia Tech in nature. JB is the miracle boost for SU.
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UConn, Pitt, Saint Mary’s, and Marquette are all top 25 teams. Gonzaga has been a national power for five years now. But we are entirely dependent on Jim Boeheim for any modicum of basketball success and when he goes we’re relegated to oblivion?
 
blust2i3d4 said:
I feel the successor of JB will be much worse. I think JB should coach until he drops dead. At least we are always in the top half of ACC even in our worst years. I predict the new coach will be in the bottom half for a decade then rise to the middle. He will never be in the top half of ACC. SU is just like Georgia Tech in nature. JB is the miracle boost for SU.
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They certainly will be if we artificially constrain the candidate pool to only coaches who played here before, instead of doing due diligence.
 
blust2i3d4 said:
I feel the successor of JB will be much worse. I think JB should coach until he drops dead. At least we are always in the top half of ACC even in our worst years. I predict the new coach will be in the bottom half for a decade then rise to the middle. He will never be in the top half of ACC. SU is just like Georgia Tech in nature. JB is the miracle boost for SU.
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We aren't in the top half of the ACC right now, nor were we last year.

This is a very strange post.
 
Fly Rodder said:
Seems like we better offer Tang.
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I'd be happy with Tang, just not sure how realistic it is knowing who's in charge. Probably looking at $4M per year, especially if Texas gets involved. Plus a $5M buyout.
 
swish7 said:
Fair point, but I do not have a better answer.

Firing Pasqualoni was an abject failure. We would have been just as good, if not better, with 5 more years of him.

Firing JB without a plan for his successor is rolling the dice. And, its capping his legacy on a shameful note. I just wish he left after the last sweet 16.

But, if there is a plan, then OK.

If there is not a plan, then get one.

You want a young Jay Wright type, if those exist. IMO.
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The comparison to the Pasqualoni situation is terribly inapt, in my opinion. That was a rash decision.

People on the Hill have been seriously pondering JB's exit for at least seven years.

I'll just keep hammering away on the point that we could absolutely, totally, completely see worse results with a different head coach. It seems that we have experienced JB's floor for several seasons running now, and there is a reality where a new coach performs far worse.

HOWEVER... the question is not "could we get worse?".

The question is "Can Jim Boeheim make us meaningfully better?".

To me, "better" means a return to being a top 25 team, competing for conference titles and top 4 NCAA seeds.

I don't see how one can answer yes to that question.
 
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