are there any JB defenders left?

[HOFCeluck]

And every coach who has been a decent head coach before is going to inherit a whole bunch of advantages to the job that they likely don't have where they coach now.

There are 2 sides to every coin.

So long as we don't hire someone with ZERO EXPERIENCE, we will be good again in a couple years,

Probably.

It might take more than one hire to do it though.

Archie Miller was decent HC when IU hired him.

Shaka Smart was a decent HC when UT hired him.

 

[RF2044]

Probably.

It might take more than one hire to do it though.

Archie Miller was decent HC when IU hired him.

Shaka Smart was a decent HC when UT hired him.

"Risk" cuts both ways, and isn't just about negative outcomes.

Do due diligence, maximize your chances of getting the hire "right," and the risk turns into opportunity.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Probably.

It might take more than one hire to do it though.

Archie Miller was decent HC when IU hired him.

Shaka Smart was a decent HC when UT hired him.

It only takes more than one hire if the first one is a stupid choice, like GMac or Autry, or even Hopkins.

And yes, I am familiar with SWC's research on "The Guy Who Follows the Legend" usually bombing out.

But in how many of those circumstances did the program opt for "continuity" by hiring an in-house assistant, maybe having a good year or two with the prior coach's players, but then flaming out for lack of personality, game management, recruiting, age, or whatever.

Get get a real coach, who's in his 40s or so and still hungry, who coaches good defense, recruits well and has East Coast ties, and we'll be back in no time.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Wildhack said this morning that he's committed to investing the resources needed to get the program back on track. He noted that the sport is in a transition phase and that every school has to adapt. I'm not convinced JW fully grasps what it takes to acquire the talent needed to win at a high level, but it sounds like he's putting himself out there at least.

He also said that what JB has done on the hill is unprecedented, but that he always keeps a short list of candidates as he does for all sports. When asked if he has a feel for whether JB will be the coach next year, he was non-committal, saying that he's focused on the rest of the season and that JB and him will talk about it after the season as they always do. That was sort of interesting to me. I obviously wasn't expecting him to say that they're working on a separation agreement or anything, but if he had gone the other way and said "Even though we're disappointed with the results, Jim's a great coach and as long as he wants to keep coaching we have full faith that he and his staff will turn it around next year", I wouldn't have been surprised, even if I'd be disappointed.

He went on to say that the goal for all sports is "to make the postseason", which is a pretty low bar to me, but others may be fine with it. If you had told the fans in 1992 or 2000 or 2014 that you just want to make the postseason and anything else on top of that is gravy, I don't think it would go over very well.

 

[Bayside44]

Wildhack said this morning that he's committed to investing the resources needed to get the program back on track. He noted that the sport is in a transition phase and that every school has to adapt. I'm not convinced JW fully grasps what it takes to acquire the talent needed to win at a high level, but it sounds like he's putting himself out there at least.

He also said that what JB has done on the hill is unprecedented, but that he always keeps a short list of candidates as he does for all sports. When asked if he has a feel for whether JB will be the coach next year, he was non-committal, saying that he's focused on the rest of the season and that JB and him will talk about it after the season as they always do. That was sort of interesting to me. I obviously wasn't expecting him to say that they're working on a separation agreement or anything, but if he had gone the other way and said "Even though we're disappointed with the results, Jim's a great coach and as long as he wants to keep coaching we have full faith that he and his staff will turn it around next year", I wouldn't have been surprised, even if I'd be disappointed.

He went on to say that the goal for all sports is "to make the postseason", which is a pretty low bar to me, but others may be fine with it. If you had told the fans in 1992 or 2000 or 2014 that you just want to make the postseason and anything else on top of that is gravy, I don't think it would go over very well.

Where was this?

 

[Millhouse]

So, you're saying Shaffer was a good hire and it was a mistake to let him go?

I see he's gone on to such great heights since we mistakenly let him go.

No I'm disagreeing that it was the toilet

 

[Cusefan0307]

Oh man I’d hate to be worse and miss the postseason…. like we’ve done for soon to be 2 years.

We are an 11 win team most years. I almost wish the ACC didn’t suck so we could have actually seen how bad we are because that excuse wouldn’t fly.

This is America. You take risks to better yourself.

JB is a savings account that is losing real value slowly long term.

 

[djcon57]

He went on to say that the goal for all sports is "to make the postseason", which is a pretty low bar to me, but others may be fine with it. If you had told the fans in 1992 or 2000 or 2014 that you just want to make the postseason and anything else on top of that is gravy, I don't think it would go over very well.

I think we're going to have to be fine with it.

I don't see the days of being on top yearly with the national powers coming back.

Really good to great year here and there, sure. Consistently making the postseason, absolutely.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Where was this?

Steve and Paulie's show.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

I think we're going to have to be fine with it.

I don't see the days of being on top yearly with the national powers coming back.

Really good to great year here and there, sure. Consistently making the postseason, absolutely.

I might be able to come around to that. And at the risk of reading way too much into JW's comments, I think they might say something about what he knows about the perception of the job/program outside of Syracuse, which could be instructive if something goes down after this season.

 

[DilemaCuse]

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wildhack said this morning that he's committed to investing the resources needed to get the program back on track. He noted that the sport is in a transition phase and that every school has to adapt. I'm not convinced JW fully grasps what it takes to acquire the talent needed to win at a high level, but it sounds like he's putting himself out there at least.

He also said that what JB has done on the hill is unprecedented, but that he always keeps a short list of candidates as he does for all sports. When asked if he has a feel for whether JB will be the coach next year, he was non-committal, saying that he's focused on the rest of the season and that JB and him will talk about it after the season as they always do. That was sort of interesting to me. I obviously wasn't expecting him to say that they're working on a separation agreement or anything, but if he had gone the other way and said "Even though we're disappointed with the results, Jim's a great coach and as long as he wants to keep coaching we have full faith that he and his staff will turn it around next year", I wouldn't have been surprised, even if I'd be disappointed.

He went on to say that the goal for all sports is "to make the postseason", which is a pretty low bar to me, but others may be fine with it. If you had told the fans in 1992 or 2000 or 2014 that you just want to make the postseason and anything else on top of that is gravy, I don't think it would go over very well.

I think this is fine. Making the postseason every year should be the goal. You may be a 3 seed one season and a 10 seed the next. As long as you're contending in the top 4 or 5 in the conference everything should fall into place.

 

[kcsu]

He doesnt know what is going to happen is my take. My guess based purely on what Bees posted is that Coach will be back next year and that next year will be his last.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It only takes more than one hire if the first one is a stupid choice, like GMac or Autry, or even Hopkins.

And yes, I am familiar with SWC's research on "The Guy Who Follows the Legend" usually bombing out.

But in how many of those circumstances did the program opt for "continuity" by hiring an in-house assistant, maybe having a good year or two with the prior coach's players, but then flaming out for lack of personality, game management, recruiting, age, or whatever.

Get get a real coach, who's in his 40s or so and still hungry, who coaches good defense, recruits well and has East Coast ties, and we'll be back in no time.

Regarding your last paragraph, it sounds exactly like what I would want here. It also sounds a lot like Mike White, who never made it past the first weekend at UF.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He doesnt know what is going to happen is my take. My guess based purely on what Bees posted is that Coach will be back next year and that next year will be his last.

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[Fly Rodder]

Probably.

It might take more than one hire to do it though.

Archie Miller was decent HC when IU hired him.

Shaka Smart was a decent HC when UT hired him.

It's kind of interesting. Both Smart and JAB started their head coaching career at 33 years old. Shaka is now 46, which would line him up with JAB's 1989-90 season.

Through their first 13 seasons (and obviously, this one isn't over yet):
Shaka Smart - 3 conference championships, 1 FF, 341 wins, .661 W%,
JAB - 5 conference championships (both regular season and tournament), 1 FF, 317 wins, .758 W%

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's kind of interesting. Both Smart and JAB started their head coaching career at 33 years old. Shaka is now 46, which would line him up with JAB's 1989-90 season.

Through their first 13 seasons (and obviously, this one isn't over yet):
Shaka Smart - 3 conference championships, 1 FF, 341 wins, .661 W%,
JAB - 7 conference championships (both regular season and tournament, 1 FF, 361 wins, .764 W%

Now do their last 6 seasons and compare.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Now do their last 6 seasons and compare.

Not really the point, and I'm not a monkey and this ain't a zoo.

BUT

JAB - 3 NCAA tourney appearances, 111 wins, .575 W%
Smart - 3 NCAA tourney appearances, conference champ (*UT) 120 wins, .632 W% and includes being run out of Texas.

* Smart will most likely win the regular season BE championship this season and add another NCAA tourney.

 

[swish7]

No one moves on from a coach without having a short list of realistic candidates to replace him. If Wildhack doesn't have that, or if the plan is already tied to one specific person, it's a bad way to operate. As we've seen through the years, "in the family" type hires can go sideways, and when that happens it gets very awkward having to support a local legend when the results don't justify it.

Completely understand.

I would fully expect Wildhack to have a top 10 - 15 list of viable replacements.

I would expect JB to have some input as well, but ultimately the decision is on Wildhack.

 

[Cuseball]

Not really the point, and I'm not a monkey and this ain't a zoo.

BUT

JAB - 3 NCAA tourney appearances, 111 wins, .575 W%
Smart - 3 NCAA tourney appearances, conference champ (*UT) 120 wins, .632 W% and includes being run out of Texas.

* Smart will most likely win the regular season BE championship this season and add another NCAA tourney.

Yep and Smart 0-3 in the NCAA's during this time while Jimmy is 5-3 with two Sweet Sixteens. If you take it back one more year Smart was 11-22 at Texas in 2017

 

[swish7]

The question is "Can Jim Boeheim make us meaningfully better?".

To me, "better" means a return to being a top 25 team, competing for conference titles and top 4 NCAA seeds.

I don't see how one can answer yes to that question.

Valid.

So many things did not work out this year. So many players did not meet expectations.

Just gets worse next year, unless some major things happen.

Just awful.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Yep and Smart 0-3 in the NCAA's during this time while Jimmy is 5-3 with two Sweet Sixteens. If you take it back one more year Smart was 11-22 at Texas in 2017

 

[Sherman20]

He’s not. My position is that I don’t care if he leaves now or after next season but he should not coach any longer than that. There’s no realistic scenario where we’re good next year, so I’m just meh about it.

There’s plenty of realistic scenarios where we could be good next year. I just doubt any of them include JB as head coach.

 

[OmahaCuse]

I am still a JB defender. I’m finally at a place that if he chose to retire I’d be fine with it.
But if he chose to continue id be fine with that too. What can I say… I have a lyrical soul.

Its a natual passage of retirement and knowing when to hang it up. Have said it many times Boards have manadatory retirement bylaws at 70 so a line is drawn, companies can have good handoffs to succesors and a plan in place. Its been time for 10 years but was nice for JB to be able to coach his kids, should have been the last hurrah. Feel a younger coach can bring more energy on recruiting and relate better to modern times and players. Wished we had a public transition plan. He had a great run and put SU basketball on the map, although the Dome helped.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yep and Smart 0-3 in the NCAA's during this time while Jimmy is 5-3 with two Sweet Sixteens. If you take it back one more year Smart was 11-22 at Texas in 2017

Yes, Smart has been up and down. I said so myself in response to someone listing him as a candidate.

He's not my number 1 choice. But if you don't cherry pick JB's last 2 tournament runs, Smart has been somewhat better, despite having a bad spell at Texas and getting fired.

So, just to be clear, over the last 6-7 years, JB's record is worse than a guy who was fired, and is at his rebound job.

Certainly Smart would have a more promising future than Boeheim at this point. That's undeniable. Boeheim won't win 20 games again, no matter how many years he wants to stay.