are there any JB defenders left?

[DilemaCuse]

5 of their top 6 players in minutes are out of the transfer portal. But I'm told that is super rare and no one can succeed like that.

and 4 from NYC

 

[orangepassion]

Seems like we better offer Tang.

Maybe offer Tang (O) some cash

 

[UpstateSM]

It is Syracuse basketball. 30 thousand people still show up to watch Dook embarrass us at home every season. Beautiful practice facility.

A great hire who has a great first offseason could have us contending in the ACC and nationally in year one. It is happening all over the place in college hoops.

It is such a loser mentality to think otherwise.

 

[Scooch]

The comparison to the Pasqualoni situation is terribly inapt, in my opinion. That was a rash decision.

People on the Hill have been seriously pondering JB's exit for at least seven years.

I'll just keep hammering away on the point that we could absolutely, totally, completely see worse results with a different head coach. It seems that we have experienced JB's floor for several seasons running now, and there is a reality where a new coach performs far worse.

HOWEVER... the question is not "could we get worse?".

The question is "Can Jim Boeheim make us meaningfully better?".

To me, "better" means a return to being a top 25 team, competing for conference titles and top 4 NCAA seeds.

I don't see how one can answer yes to that question.

I'll also add... I don't believe my expectations for "better" are at all unreasonable. Not that we can't experience a down season here and there. But we have the brand, location, conference, facilities, fans and money to be on that level for hoops.

Football is a farrrrrr different story. But we should have high expectations for hoops.

 

[SWC75]

I feel the successor of JB will be much worse. I think JB should coach until he drops dead. At least we are always in the top half of ACC even in our worst years. I predict the new coach will be in the bottom half for a decade then rise to the middle. He will never be in the top half of ACC. SU is just like Georgia Tech in nature. JB is the miracle boost for SU.

Everyone has a right to his own opinion, and you can have that one.

 

[two3zone]

Pitt is in first place in the ACC. They are not a bubble team despite what Lunardi and the bracketologists might be spouting.

And West Virginia has 5 league wins and will probably make the tournament. Where you finish in the ACC this year doesn’t mean much.

 

[grepal]

I bet if you take a poll or attend any alumni events most people wanna move on

You may be correct, we do not want to see him let go. There is a huge difference in perception.

 

[Oakland]

Syracuse had one of the original NBA franchises. The Nationals. They played here for 12 years, and we won an NBA Championship in 1955.

In a 10 year stretch from 1952 to 1961, we won the championship, lost in the finals, and lost in the Eastern Conference Finals to the Celtics five times.

Syracuse was crazy about basketball, and always has been.

Jim Boeheim didn't invent basketball in Syracuse.

The 24 Second shot clock was invented here in 1954. The Syracuse Nats, like SU football, helped break the color barrier in the NBA with Manny Breland.

At the college level, Syracuse had a coach in the 19-Teens and Early 20s named Edmund Dollard who won almost 72% of his games (151-59) including a Helms National Championship team that went 16-1.

Next, Lew Andreas coached us from the late 20s to the 1950 season. He made the post season 3 times in his last 6 years, and also won a Helms National Championship. His career record was 358-135, almost 73% wins.

Even in the 50s and early 60s under Mark Guley, we made an Elite 8 and had a winning record. Guley had losing records in his last 2 seasons and was replaced by Fred Lewis. It only took Lewis 1 year to get us back to a winning record.

Fred Lewis went 91-57 (.614), but also made an Elite 8 and the NIT twice, when that was still a big deal. Fred Lewis only had ONE MORE losing season, and was replaced by Roy Danforth.

In year one, Danforth had a losing record. But by his 3rd year, we were back in the NIT, beginning a string of 6 straight post-season births. The first 2 were in the NIT before the NCAA expanded beyond 32 teams. The 4 straight NCAAs including the 1975 Final Four, and a Sweet 16 a couple years before that. Danforth's record was 148-71 (almost 68%).

So, just for the record, Syracuse has pretty much ALWAYS been good at basketball.

Past coaches were fired for just 1 or 2 losing seasons, and the people who replaced them never took more than a couple years to be right back to winning ways.

So all you "Chicken Littles" out there who think the SKY WILL BE FALLING if we replace JB; go read some history.

Other coaches would have been fired by now. And our average recovery to post-season is TWO YEARS. Let's start the clock, shall we?

Hal Greer and some of the boys used to shoot hoops in the driveway across the street from us in DeWitt.

 

[Millhouse]

The comparison to the Pasqualoni situation is terribly inapt, in my opinion. That was a rash decision.

People on the Hill have been seriously pondering JB's exit for at least seven years.

I'll just keep hammering away on the point that we could absolutely, totally, completely see worse results with a different head coach. It seems that we have experienced JB's floor for several seasons running now, and there is a reality where a new coach performs far worse.

HOWEVER... the question is not "could we get worse?".

The question is "Can Jim Boeheim make us meaningfully better?".

To me, "better" means a return to being a top 25 team, competing for conference titles and top 4 NCAA seeds.

I don't see how one can answer yes to that question.

I agree. But is that the criteria for getting rid of hall of famer?

There are maybe three people here who worry about getting worse after boeheim.

 

[Millhouse]

I'd be happy with Tang, just not sure how realistic it is knowing who's in charge. Probably looking at $4M per year, especially if Texas gets involved. Plus a $5M buyout.

I'm not mature enough to have a coach named Tang

 

[HOFCeluck]

I agree. But is that the criteria for getting rid of hall of famer?

There are maybe three people here who worry about getting worse after boeheim.

Look…I was a hundred percent sure our problems were gonna be solved after we fired P.

Not that basketball is the same as football…but yes things could get worse.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree. But is that the criteria for getting rid of hall of famer?

There are maybe three people here who worry about getting worse after boeheim.

Read our history. It'll be a couple years, and we'll be back - so long as we hire someone who has DONE THE JOB BEFORE.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Look…I was a hundred percent sure our problems were gonna be solved after we fired P.

Not that basketball is the same as football…but yes things could get worse.

Reminder; Greg Robinson had never been a head coach before.

Scott Shaffer had never been a head coach before, either.

Draw your own conclusions, and think about this when you discuss the criteria for hiring our next basketball coach.

 

[Millhouse]

Look…I was a hundred percent sure our problems were gonna be solved after we fired P.

Not that basketball is the same as football…but yes things could get worse.

And so what, it was four bad years and they were right back to being ordinary again like they were from 2002-2004

 

[Millhouse]

Read our history. It'll be a couple years, and we'll be back - so long as we hire someone who has DONE THE JOB BEFORE.

I agree with that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And so what, it was four bad years and they were right back to being ordinary again like they were from 2002-2004

And then they hired another inexperienced guy after Marrone, and we totally went in the toilet.

 

[HOFCeluck]

And so what, it was four bad years and they were right back to being ordinary again like they were from 2002-2004

What I’m trying to say is that it’s not like only three people think we could get worse after JB. Just because people don’t constantly mention it doesn’t mean they don’t realize it.

 

[NineOneSeven]

What I’m trying to say is that it’s not like only three people think we could get worse after JB. Just because people don’t constantly mention it doesn’t mean they don’t realize it.

Oh man I’d hate to be worse and miss the postseason…. like we’ve done for soon to be 2 years.

 

[Millhouse]

And then they hired another inexperienced guy after Marrone, and we totally went in the toilet.

And won a bowl game

 

[HOFCeluck]

Oh man I’d hate to be worse and miss the postseason…. like we’ve done for soon to be 2 years.

Sounds like a nightmare imo

 

[IthacaMatt]

What I’m trying to say is that it’s not like only three people think we could get worse after JB. Just because people don’t constantly mention it doesn’t mean they don’t realize it.

Hire a real coach who's done this before, and we'll be fine.

Why should we fall apart without JB?

Are there no other competent coaches out there, who:

• Are still willing to recruit?
• Would be happy to play in an arena with over 30,000 capacity?
• Have a program that earns among the most money of any college basketball program in the country?
• Is within 4 or 5 hours driving distance of every major city in the Northeast corridor and the 2 biggest cities in Canada?
• Has a quality academic program to sell to recruits?
• Would lead a program with a history of placing players in the NBA?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Hire a real coach who's done this before, and we'll be fine.

Why should we fall apart without JB?

Are there no other competent coaches out there, who:

• Are still willing to recruit?
• Would be happy to play in an arena with over 30,000 capacity?
• Have a program that earns among the most money of any college basketball program in the country?
• Is within 4 or 5 hours driving distance of every major city in the Northeast corridor and the 2 biggest cities in Canada?
• Has a quality academic program to sell to recruits?
• Would lead a program with a history of placing players in the NBA?

Every coach we hire, short of Billy Donovan or Jay Wright, is gonna come with some risk.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Every coach we hire, short of Billy Donovan or Jay Wright, is gonna come with some risk.

And every coach who has been a decent head coach before is going to inherit a whole bunch of advantages to the job that they likely don't have where they coach now.

There are 2 sides to every coin.

So long as we don't hire someone with ZERO EXPERIENCE, we will be good again in a couple years,

 

[IthacaMatt]

And won a bowl game

So, you're saying Shaffer was a good hire and it was a mistake to let him go?

I see he's gone on to such great heights since we mistakenly let him go.

 

[orangecuse]

Look Shirley, it's simply human nature to wanna deny what's obvious sometimes, even when it's right in front of your face.
I had a friend whose gf would blatantly flirt and cheat on him, and no matter how many times you told him, he just would not accept it. In fact, just telling him made you the enemy holding "something" against her.
We see it in politics all the time nowadays, where irrefutable evidence is dismissed to make way for the next delusion, just so a loser and/or his minions can delay, deflect, & deny, just to forestall the inevitable.
The old saying " denial ain't just a river in Egypt" is apropos for these people, and they're not about to change.

This, reminded me of this...go to the 2:16 mark.