Are we targeting the wrong areas. Wrong kids because.

[RF2044]

I just have to chuckle reading this thread.

I just don't get what part of not getting it done on the court and freshman who arent ready or good enough for the ACC is absolved by there being some effort still on the recruiting trail. So we should celebrate and honor the staff trying hard in the eyes of some even if it's not at the same level as our competition?

End of the day if we aren't getting results commensurate with the programs goals and stature then there isn't much to celebrate or defend. That is an objective statement to which feels is argued too much. We certainly can debate the cause but the results are what they are.

Dasher nailed it earlier. JB has shown waning effort / involvement for a long time, so that when he stepped it up a tiny amount this past summer, everyone applauds his level of activity [which, compared to other head coaches, was still subpar].

 

[kcsu]

I just have to chuckle reading this thread.

I just don't get what part of not getting it done on the court and freshman who arent ready or good enough for the ACC is absolved by there being some effort still on the recruiting trail. So we should celebrate and honor the staff trying hard in the eyes of some even if it's not at the same level as our competition?

End of the day if we aren't getting results commensurate with the programs goals and stature then there isn't much to celebrate or defend. That is an objective statement to which feels is argued too much. We certainly can debate the cause but the results are what they are.

Good post. There are those on here that for whatever reason will defend JB regardless of the situation.
Be it playing Joe at the point, roster management, or recruiting. The fact is that our top targets are not picking SU. I dont know why. My two cents is that Jim isnt a very good recruiter at this point in his life. He doesn't embrace change and or technology. He is negative publicly towards his own players. He doesnt put the time into it that he used to. Other coaches use his age against him and on and on . In addition Gerry isnt close to Hop as a recruiter. Not even on the same planet.
Throw on top Jims reluctance to play his bench. Favoritism, and the exclusive use of the zone and we are not winning recruiting wars and now games.
Jim says this is his best class ever. Lets hope he is right.
Unfortunately nothing is going to change until there is change.
Something about the definition of insanity.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think RF, Dash, KCSU, Orangezoo, SUFan44 (I think I got everyone, ) and I usually don't post on the recruiting board because with bball, I always want to give it til the end, especially with the portal, but my only additional two cents:

It is actually worse for us if JB actually is going all out and we are still landing where we are landing. If this is the program humming on all cylinders, blow it up.

However, if JB doesn't want to go all out on the recruiting trail and Wildhack isn't going to do anything to change his standing, then how in god's name does JB not blow up the roster of assistant coaches? JB doesn't want to be out on the road all day long, fine. Whatever. But then he needs assistants that can close and get us top 50 players.

But what can't happen is that JB is not fully engaged on the recruiting trail AND we have assistants that can't get us top players if JB is going to be sticking around.

 

[Orangezoo]

Good post. There are those on here that for whatever reason will defend JB regardless of the situation.
Be it playing Joe at the point, roster management, or recruiting. The fact is that our top targets are not picking SU. I dont know why. My two cents is that Jim isnt a very good recruiter at this point in his life. He doesn't embrace change and or technology. He is negative publicly towards his own players. He doesnt put the time into it that he used to. Other coaches use his age against him and on and on . In addition Gerry isnt close to Hop as a recruiter. Not even on the same planet.
Throw on top Jims reluctance to play his bench. Favoritism, and the exclusive use of the zone and we are not winning recruiting wars and now games.
Jim says this is his best class ever. Lets hope he is right.
Unfortunately nothing is going to change until there is change.
Something about the definition of insanity.

If it is his best class ever and the film that is out there is misleading then I will be thrilled and happily eat every ounce of crow necessary for the time these kids shine in Orange.

 

[Newhouser]

Guards win in college basketball and we have been hamstrung the last few years because everyone knows that our guards were going to play a lot of minutes. You are a 2 guard in the last 3 recruiting classes before this one - you are coming here to play behind the coach's kid?

 

[rrlbees]

Good post. There are those on here that for whatever reason will defend JB regardless of the situation.
Be it playing Joe at the point, roster management, or recruiting. The fact is that our top targets are not picking SU. I dont know why. My two cents is that Jim isnt a very good recruiter at this point in his life. He doesn't embrace change and or technology. He is negative publicly towards his own players. He doesnt put the time into it that he used to. Other coaches use his age against him and on and on . In addition Gerry isnt close to Hop as a recruiter. Not even on the same planet.
Throw on top Jims reluctance to play his bench. Favoritism, and the exclusive use of the zone and we are not winning recruiting wars and now games.
Jim says this is his best class ever. Lets hope he is right.
Unfortunately nothing is going to change until there is change.
Something about the definition of insanity.

You guys sure have gone 9 ways to Sunday. LOL. Every response has little to do with my original response to your post that we missed most of our targets. Like I said, we have a 5 man class. 3 whom we “targeted”. We went after Taylor, Bunch and to a slightly lesser degree JBs “favorite PG, Copeland. We pursued them hard, offered them a year prior, stayed on them, went to their games and got them to visit and commit. We never waivered. Just because they were targets doesn’t mean you stop recruiting. You guys would kill JB for that. Guys like Flip and Clingan don’t count cause they are bigs and not guards and wings like those 3. Dior we jettisoned just as much as he jettisoned us. And none of this is excuses or defending. These are guys the staff liked and were kids games didn’t have to be played. Like many 5 man classes, a couple will exceed expectations, a couple won’t and one will meet them. Now you can go back to airing your grievances about everything else under the sun.

 

[Orangezoo]

You guys sure have gone 9 ways to Sunday. LOL. Every response has little to do with my original response to your post that we missed most of our targets. Like I said, we have a 5 man class. 3 whom we “targeted”. We went after Taylor, Bunch and to a slightly lesser degree JBs “favorite PG, Copeland. We pursued them hard, offered them a year prior, stayed on them, went to their games and got them to visit and commit. We never waivered. Just because they were targets doesn’t mean you stop recruiting. You guys would kill JB for that. Guys like Flip and Clingan don’t count cause they are bigs and not guards and wings like those 3. Dior we jettisoned just as much as he jettisoned us. And none of this is excuses or defending. These are guys the staff liked and were kids games didn’t have to be played. Like many 5 man classes, a couple will exceed expectations, a couple won’t and one will meet them. Now you can go back to airing your grievances about everything else under the sun.

End of the day we can exhaust every view 1000x over. Either the results are positive or negative. We need this class to generate positive results in coordination with whoever returns or is added to the portal.

Whether this class performs or not is most certainly important. The rest is just back and forth talk. I will be curious the view on things if results are poor and we see another losing season or two stacked on to this year. Losing seasons are representative of recruiting.

Might I add this class has been as much a roller coaster in our not getting the big catch as it has in the kids who were seemingly set to "blow up" did not and thus the temperatures is more lukewarm than normal. So talent evaluation becomes a topic of conversation as well.

If this class lands better than expected and that translates to wins then none of this matters. Let's hope for that.

 

[RF2044]

Good post. There are those on here that for whatever reason will defend JB regardless of the situation.
Be it playing Joe at the point, roster management, or recruiting. The fact is that our top targets are not picking SU. I dont know why. My two cents is that Jim isnt a very good recruiter at this point in his life. He doesn't embrace change and or technology. He is negative publicly towards his own players. He doesnt put the time into it that he used to. Other coaches use his age against him and on and on . In addition Gerry isnt close to Hop as a recruiter. Not even on the same planet.
Throw on top Jims reluctance to play his bench. Favoritism, and the exclusive use of the zone and we are not winning recruiting wars and now games.
Jim says this is his best class ever. Lets hope he is right.
Unfortunately nothing is going to change until there is change.
Something about the definition of insanity.

Who are you, and what have you done with KCSU?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

This is often like a conversation between a computer and a wino.

But the wino has a point, even if he can’t express it in binary code.

 

[Madbiker]

I just get the impression (subjective) that JB just doesn't connect relationship wise with most of these recruits. He relies on GMac and Red to form the relationships and sell the program. That doesn't work with some kids especially the high level ones. I read we lost Lands because he wanted a close relationship with his head coach and decided he wasn't going to get that with JB. Not that JB did anything wrong but he just didn't have any relationship with him. JJ Starling kind of the same thing while Brey formed a close relationship with him. I think in years back (quite a while back) it was different.

 

[texascpa]

Oh no, that doesn't fit the narrative - DELETE, DELETE!

 

[Orangezoo]

Oh no, that doesn't fit the narrative - DELETE, DELETE!

Not sure that was what Dasher was saying..

 

[RF2044]

Oh no, that doesn't fit the narrative - DELETE, DELETE!

Actually, that perfectly fits the narrative, because JB didn't have to get on a plane.

 

[texascpa]

Actually, that perfectly fits the narrative, because JB didn't have to get on a plane.

No, the narrative was that he doesn't visit recruits at home, NOT that he doesn't get on a plane to visit recruits.

 

[RF2044]

No, the narrative was that he doesn't visit recruits at home, NOT that he doesn't get on a plane to visit recruits.

Sounds like your interpretive spin.

 

[albanycuse]

No, the narrative was that he doesn't visit recruits at home, NOT that he doesn't get on a plane to visit recruits.

Once every few years to an in state kid isn’t exactly what i call making in home visits. The quality of the team on the floor and record show he doesn’t care anymore or lost his drive.

 

[UpstateSM]

If JB is giving his 100% and this is how recruiting and the actual basketball is going... things need to change

If JB isn't giving his 100% and this is how recruiting and the actual basketball is going... things need to change

In sum... things need to change. At least if the latter is what is happening the program can be turned around basically overnight.

 

[cusefan88]

They haven't landed a lot of top 75 guys recently and the two that come to mind definitely haven't looked good (Carey and Benny Williams).

Clearly there's something wrong and it needs to change.

 

[texascpa]

Sounds like your interpretive spin.

So, tell me, how am I supposed to interpret this comment which started the whole discussion:

Jim doesn’t travel. I bet he hasn't been in a recruits house other than Joes in years.

Last time I knew, traveling can be done by car, plane or horse and buggy.

 

[rrlbees]

End of the day we can exhaust every view 1000x over. Either the results are positive or negative. We need this class to generate positive results in coordination with whoever returns or is added to the portal.

Whether this class performs or not is most certainly important. The rest is just back and forth talk. I will be curious the view on things if results are poor and we see another losing season or two stacked on to this year. Losing seasons are representative of recruiting.

Might I add this class has been as much a roller coaster in our not getting the big catch as it has in the kids who were seemingly set to "blow up" did not and thus the temperatures is more lukewarm than normal. So talent evaluation becomes a topic of conversation as well.

If this class lands better than expected and that translates to wins then none of this matters. Let's hope for that.

This is an important class. Wish it included a stud.

 

[RF2044]

So, tell me, how am I supposed to interpret this comment which started the whole discussion:

Jim doesn’t travel. I bet he hasn't been in a recruits house other than Joes in years.

Last time I knew, traveling can be done by car, plane or horse and buggy.

You should interpret it by understanding the big picture implication, instead of pedantically focusing on a myopic interpretation of one sentence did you seem determined to attack, and not see the forest through the trees.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

So, tell me, how am I supposed to interpret this comment which started the whole discussion:

Jim doesn’t travel. I bet he hasn't been in a recruits house other than Joes in years.

Last time I knew, traveling can be done by car, plane or horse and buggy.

I would interpret it as hyperbole, with a kernel of truth surrounded by a creamy nougat center.

 

[texascpa]

You should interpret it by understanding the big picture implication, instead of pedantically focusing on a myopic interpretation of one sentence did you seem determined to attack, and not see the forest through the trees.

Say what you mean, it's not hard.

 

[texascpa]

Not sure that was what Dasher was saying..

It was in response to what KCSU posted (someone I generally respect and enjoy on the forum, I should add). But, apparently I'm myopic and pedantic and a bunch of other big words because according to another poster I was supposed to understand something that wasn't written.

 

[RF2044]

Say what you mean, it's not hard.

If you believe criticism of JB's efforts on the recruiting trail are a "narrative," then you have your head planted in the sand. Putting it as politely as possible.

And if your belief that he's doing a good job over the past several recruiting cycles is the basis for your pushback, then I can think of some less polite ways to describe your opinion, using a lot of smaller words.