Article Published in Post-Standard 8/18/09

[sutomcat]

Gross also said that the Orange will play no fewer than six homes at the Carrier Dome in the years it has agreed to play USC and Notre Dame at the new Meadowlands facility. He said the addition of a 12th annual game to the schedule allows Syracuse to look at other opportunities he believes "will enhance our program.
Link

Dr Gross broke his promise to Syracuse fans before SU even played one game there.

Will he move SU home basketball games to MSG as well? He promised he would not.

What will happen with the return game with Oklahoma?

Based on past history with this SU AD, I am thinking...

50% probability the return game will be played at the New Meadowlands facility.

50% probability this was just a one game contract (something Syracuse never does)

0% probability the return game will be played at the Carrier Dome

Please Dr Gross, prove me wrong.

 

[JoeCollege]

He's trying to encourage SU fans to follow Buzz Shaw's advice and get a life. This is really for our own good.

Thanks, Dr. Gross!

 

[cusestudent]

To be honest, I don't think there was much he could do in this situation thanks to WVU, and the lack of teams looking to fill their schedules. I'm from CNY, and yeah it sucks if there are only five home games this year or the OU return game is in NYC, but you can't pin it all on him. He's simply doing the best he can with the options he has. Is it really his fault that no one wants to play in a thirty year old dome that is in dire need of upgrades? I would choose a brand new NFL facility in the biggest market in the world too if I were OU. We have ZERO sway compared to a team like Oklahoma.

 

[Noexcuse]

Is Oklahoma a definite at this point? Don't we still need one more game? Couldn't that be our 6th home game? Assuming home and home with Oklahoma would that definitely be at MetLife? Lots of supposition and unanswered questions at this point imo.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I think we need to give TGD a little latitude on this one. It's true that he would probably uproot the entire campus and move it to NYC if he could, but this entire BE mess doesn't give the team a lot of options. It won't kill the program to go on the road to Oklahoma and play especially if we are getting a return trip, whether it is in NYC or in Syracuse. They are one of the top programs of all times. It's name brand recognition.

End result is that whatever comments made by TGD almost three years ago can almost be thrown out the window. I'm sure that he doesn't want to give up any home games, but you have to think that he is going to do whatever he can to help the football program be successful. Unfortunately, sometimes that comes down to dollars and cents (or is it dollars and sense-as in common sense).

 

[sutomcat]

To be honest, I don't think there was much he could do in this situation thanks to WVU, and the lack of teams looking to fill their schedules. I'm from CNY, and yeah it sucks if there are only five home games this year or the OU return game is in NYC, but you can't pin it all on him. He's simply doing the best he can with the options he has. Is it really his fault that no one wants to play in a thirty year old dome that is in dire need of upgrades? I would choose a brand new NFL facility in the biggest market in the world too if I were OU. We have ZERO sway compared to a team like Oklahoma.

Sorry, but this notion big time schools won't come to the Dome is wrong.

It is possible to schedule big time schools to come into a venue like the Carrier Dome. Syracuse did this for years before Dr Gross arrived. Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan...virtually every major power in college football has been scheduled in the Dome in the past.

UConn has home and homes in the next couple of years with Michigan and Tennessee. Temple has home and homes scheduled with Penn State and Notre Dame. Even lowly Rutgers has home and homes scheduled with Penn State, Miami of Florida and UCLA.

It is true that the schedule for this year was screwed up by forces Dr Gross could not control. But he had options to schedule a home game here that he chose not to exercise.

He might have cost us a bowl game last year changing the schedule to play USC in Los Angeles and he might cost us a bowl game again this year scheduling an away game in Oklahoma when we are already playing USC in Jersey. We need to get to a bowl game this year. It is even more important to do this now after failing to go bowling last season. I think his top priority should have been to get a winnable and interesting home game for that 12th spot.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

so wait a minute here, we schedule at Okie and get one more home game versus some 1A team and that gives us 6 home, 1 NJ, and 5 road? What is the issue? In addition, the scheduling at this point is far far from typical, everything is in limbo, what is the guys suppose to do? Lets see what happens as well

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Gross also said that the Orange will play no fewer than six homes at the Carrier Dome in the years it has agreed to play USC and Notre Dame at the new Meadowlands facility. He said the addition of a 12th annual game to the schedule allows Syracuse to look at other opportunities he believes "will enhance our program.

You realize that if TCU and WVU hadn't been let out of their BE contracts early, SU would have had 6 home games this season (UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, TCU, Northwestern, and Stony Brook.

Suppose Temple joins the BE and is slotted as our 6th home game, and suppose we agree to travel to Oklahoma as part of a 3 game deal (home, road, neutral). Wouldn't that solve all our problems?

Or is everyone convinced that Gross and the BE will screw this up.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You realize that if TCU and WVU hadn't been let out of their BE contracts early, SU would have had 6 home games this season (UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, TCU, Northwestern, and Stony Brook.

Suppose Temple joins the BE and is slotted as our 6th home game, and suppose we agree to travel to Oklahoma as part of a 3 game deal (home, road, neutral). Wouldn't that solve all our problems?

Or is everyone convinced that Gross and the BE will screw this up.

Or is everyone forgetting that this is a short term problem and that Gross was a huge part of getting us to the ACC, The SUAD is simply trying to respond to a set of circumstances brough on by 2 BE teams leaving. I understand the angst over the Met Life games but we shall see there

 

[Bayside44]

People seem pretty unreasonable on this one. Gross was a part of getting SU out of conference purgatory and into the ACC, and if that means one lousy year of scheduling because of WVU jumping ship, SU's unwillingness to pay the big money to get out early, then so be it. Two other quick points - Purdue hasn't exactly made a return trip to the Dome, and the days where the SEC schools and Texas came to the Dome are long over. The finances of the sport have long changed, and the payoff for them isn't big enough to go to a bandbox stadium way up north. Plenty of schools are playing games in NFL stadiums now, the money is just too great to avoid it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Oklahoma never schedules more than 10 BCS opponents a season.

They already have 9 conference games and ND on their plate for 2012.

 

[Chip]

Dr Gross broke his promise to Syracuse fans before SU even played one game there.

There are 2 reasons why this comment is a bit offbase at this point:

1. None of this is official. For all we know, Temple could be coming to the Dome, which would be the 6th game. Or maybe that's the word we're waiting on before agreeing to the game at Oklahoma.

2. When Gross made those comments, it was in the context of being in a 9 team Big East. He helped get us to a much better place, which caused a ripple effect. One that works out for us in the long run, but might possibly mean a promise has to be amended for at least one season. I wish we never had the USC deal in the first place, but can't change that now. Penn State and ND make much more sense.

As for OU return game in NYC, as I said, I don't blame local season ticket holders for being upset. It sucks for them. Really does. But I also think SU is betting on the one horse town theory (without making the blunder of actually saying it out loud). Come 2013 we'll have a 9 game, much more attractive, ACC Schedule. We'll be betting on SU's play improving to the point of competing in the ACC (note we're not going to be playing Bobby Bowden's 90's FSU or the '81 Clemson Tigers). At that point, there's a product that people will come to see, even if some segment of what's left of a season ticket holding base should bail based on NYC scheduling.

Not all schools are going to be in the demand NYC position, but I think OU wants to play in that space (see Cincy @ Paul Brown).

I think people are too focused on 2012. The future of SU football lies in 2013 and beyond.

 

[PhatOrange]

IF TRUE, then the person who should get some lattitude next season is Marrone. If we get pounded in these games and they affect the season then he gets a mulligan as far as I'm concerned.

The team and depth is simply not ready yet to play this kind of schedule.

That said, if it's a one and done or a return game at the meadowland then Gross can shove it.

 

[GoSU96]

Gross also said that the Orange will play no fewer than six homes at the Carrier Dome in the years it has agreed to play USC and Notre Dame at the new Meadowlands facility. He said the addition of a 12th annual game to the schedule allows Syracuse to look at other opportunities he believes "will enhance our program.
Link

Dr Gross broke his promise to Syracuse fans before SU even played one game there.

Will he move SU home basketball games to MSG as well? He promised he would not.

What will happen with the return game with Oklahoma?

Based on past history with this SU AD, I am thinking...

50% probability the return game will be played at the New Meadowlands facility.

50% probability this was just a one game contract (something Syracuse never does)

0% probability the return game will be played at the Carrier Dome

Please Dr Gross, prove me wrong.

Very unusual circumstances.

 

[GoSU96]

IF TRUE, then the person who should get some lattitude next season is Marrone. If we get pounded in these games and they affect the season then he gets a mulligan as far as I'm concerned.

The team and depth is simply not ready yet to play this kind of schedule.

That said, if it's a one and done or a return game at the meadowland then Gross can shove it.

I believe Marrone would be pushing for OU vs scheduling for success.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think Syracuse is very lucky t ohave Gross, Syracuse can't survive in today's landscape with some straight laced blue hair that won't think out of the box, sure Gross swings and misses at times, but with some of the risk come reward, I don't see how anyone can put the 2012 football schedule mess on Gross, it is a very different set of circumstances. I agree Gross is a bit much for me at times but I don't have to talk to the guy everyday. People in Syracuse are just strange to me at times, they act is if the University and its athletic programs just print money up there, very strange. As if Syracuse is Ohio St or something, even some of my local buddies have to be reminded every so often about certain limitations of Syracuse athletics espcecially on the football side when it comes to finances. I also think that Gross continues to adjust to the times and after 8 years or however long it has been understands what we need

 

[Millhouse]

There are 2 reasons why this comment is a bit offbase at this point:

1. None of this is official. For all we know, Temple could be coming to the Dome, which would be the 6th game. Or maybe that's the word we're waiting on before agreeing to the game at Oklahoma.

2. When Gross made those comments, it was in the context of being in a 9 team Big East. He helped get us to a much better place, which caused a ripple effect. One that works out for us in the long run, but might possibly mean a promise has to be amended for at least one season. I wish we never had the USC deal in the first place, but can't change that now. Penn State and ND make much more sense.

As for OU return game in NYC, as I said, I don't blame local season ticket holders for being upset. It sucks for them. Really does. But I also think SU is betting on the one horse town theory (without making the blunder of actually saying it out loud). Come 2013 we'll have a 9 game, much more attractive, ACC Schedule. We'll be betting on SU's play improving to the point of competing in the ACC (note we're not going to be playing Bobby Bowden's 90's FSU or the '81 Clemson Tigers). At that point, there's a product that people will come to see, even if some segment of what's left of a season ticket holding base should bail based on NYC scheduling.

Not all schools are going to be in the demand NYC position, but I think OU wants to play in that space (see Cincy @ Paul Brown).

I think people are too focused on 2012. The future of SU football lies in 2013 and beyond.

totally agree with your last sentence. this isn't a make or break year for anyone, i'm resigned to it being a grind, start fresh in 2013 all around.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

totally agree with your last sentence. this isn't a make or break year for anyone, i'm resigned to it being a grind, start fresh in 2013 all around.

Yep agree 100%. marrone has time, he just needs to avoid disaster. Jesus, how about 3-4 wins in conference

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I think Syracuse is very lucky t ohave Gross, Syracuse can't survive in today's landscape with some straight laced blue hair that won't think out of the box, sure Gross swings and misses at times, but with some of the risk come reward, I don't see how anyone can put the 2012 football schedule mess on Gross, it is a very different set of circumstances. I agree Gross is a bit much for me at times but I don't have to talk to the guy everyday. People in Syracuse are just strange to me at times, they act is if the University and its athletic programs just print money up there, very strange. As if Syracuse is Ohio St or something, even some of my local buddies have to be reminded every so often about certain limitations of Syracuse athletics espcecially on the football side when it comes to finances. I also think that Gross continues to adjust to the times and after 8 years or however long it has been understands what we need

Absolutely. It's a big difference when you are a private school vs a public institution. Cuse fans take a lot for granted, even more so on the basketball side.

 

[PhatOrange]

I believe Marrone would be pushing for OU vs scheduling for success.

I don't disagree, competitors want to compete but that's not scheduling for success. Even Notre Dame woke up and realized they had to dumb down their schedule or they couldn't compete.


Go 0-2 against USC and Oklahoma and this board will be crucifying Marrone. There will be no latitude.


At the end of the year nobody cares who you played they only care what the record is. The 1987 season schedule was FAR from a murderers row.

 

[PhatOrange]

Sorry, but this notion big time schools won't come to the Dome is wrong.

It is possible to schedule big time schools to come into a venue like the Carrier Dome. Syracuse did this for years before Dr Gross arrived. Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan...virtually every major power in college football has been scheduled in the Dome in the past.

UConn has home and homes in the next couple of years with Michigan and Tennessee. Temple has home and homes scheduled with Penn State and Notre Dame. Even lowly Rutgers has home and homes scheduled with Penn State, Miami of Florida and UCLA.

It is true that the schedule for this year was screwed up by forces Dr Gross could not control. But he had options to schedule a home game here that he chose not to exercise.

He might have cost us a bowl game last year changing the schedule to play USC in Los Angeles and he might cost us a bowl game again this year scheduling an away game in Oklahoma when we are already playing USC in Jersey. We need to get to a bowl game this year. It is even more important to do this now after failing to go bowling last season. I think his top priority should have been to get a winnable and interesting home game for that 12th spot.

spot on

 

[SUFan44]

totally agree with your last sentence. this isn't a make or break year for anyone, i'm resigned to it being a grind, start fresh in 2013 all around.

Amen to that.

Broyld/Hunt + ACC = can we fastforward past this season already? We have seen it play out over the last two years, both good (Pinstripe Bowl) and bad (5-game losing skid). It will be the same song and dance this season, I have no question.

 

[cusestudent]

Sorry, but this notion big time schools won't come to the Dome is wrong.

It is possible to schedule big time schools to come into a venue like the Carrier Dome. Syracuse did this for years before Dr Gross arrived. Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan...virtually every major power in college football has been scheduled in the Dome in the past.

UConn has home and homes in the next couple of years with Michigan and Tennessee. Temple has home and homes scheduled with Penn State and Notre Dame. Even lowly Rutgers has home and homes scheduled with Penn State, Miami of Florida and UCLA.

It is true that the schedule for this year was screwed up by forces Dr Gross could not control. But he had options to schedule a home game here that he chose not to exercise.

He might have cost us a bowl game last year changing the schedule to play USC in Los Angeles and he might cost us a bowl game again this year scheduling an away game in Oklahoma when we are already playing USC in Jersey. We need to get to a bowl game this year. It is even more important to do this now after failing to go bowling last season. I think his top priority should have been to get a winnable and interesting home game for that 12th spot.

He might have cost us a bowl game last year because of scheduling? I guess it's his fault the team didn't perform and we lost five in a row to end the season...

The examples of big schools coming to SU are from the 90s and early 2000s when SU was still a national brand in football...none of the big name schools have been here in a long time, and that is because there is no benefit for them to go all the way to CNY for a win over a middling to lower level program when they could do that closer to home. Penn St plays teams like Temple at their home field because it is close and will be like a home game for them. UConn and Rutgers both get exposure in the NYC market, plus they have a better national prestige at this point than SU does in football, plain and simple.

If you are afraid we won't make a bowl game because of two top ten teams on a cupcake schedule then I'm worried about you. If we can't go to a bowl game on this schedule then the program has a lot more problems than scheduling.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

He might have cost us a bowl game last year because of scheduling? I guess it's his fault the team didn't perform and we lost five in a row to end the season...

The examples of big schools coming to SU are from the 90s and early 2000s when SU was still a national brand in football...none of the big name schools have been here in a long time, and that is because there is no benefit for them to go all the way to CNY for a win over a middling to lower level program when they could do that closer to home. Penn St plays teams like Temple at their home field because it is close and will be like a home game for them. UConn and Rutgers both get exposure in the NYC market, plus they have a better national prestige at this point than SU does in football, plain and simple.

If you are afraid we won't make a bowl game because of two top ten teams on a cupcake schedule then I'm worried about you. If we can't go to a bowl game on this schedule then the program has a lot more problems than scheduling.

Another youngin' with all the answers!

SU is at a point now where they need wins more than anything else. Recruits aren't going to be impressed with playing USC and OU if Cuse is losing by three or more touchdowns, which realistically could happen this year.

HCDM can't sell recruits on the whole "sure we were 6-6, but two of those losses came to USC and OU!" That doesn't work.

Along the same lines, with regards to MetLife games, it will not be good for tri-state (NYC/LI, NJ, CT/Eastern PA, etc..) recruits to see a bloodbath in MetLife. Play USC at the Dome and schedule someone like Penn St or Benedict Arnold or even RU (once SU is in the ACC) at MetLife. SU should schedule teams they have a realistic shot at beating in these games. There is no benefit to getting blown out at a pro stadium 250 miles from your campus. That is not the kind of exposure SU should be looking for.

I also disagree with your national prestige comment. Nationally, SU is still a bigger football name than RU and UConn. Regionally thought you may be right, and this should be concerning. Playing OU, USC, etc...in MetLife Stadium is not going to help this.

 

[sutomcat]

There are 2 reasons why this comment is a bit offbase at this point:

1. None of this is official. For all we know, Temple could be coming to the Dome, which would be the 6th game. Or maybe that's the word we're waiting on before agreeing to the game at Oklahoma.

2. When Gross made those comments, it was in the context of being in a 9 team Big East. He helped get us to a much better place, which caused a ripple effect. One that works out for us in the long run, but might possibly mean a promise has to be amended for at least one season. I wish we never had the USC deal in the first place, but can't change that now. Penn State and ND make much more sense.

As for OU return game in NYC, as I said, I don't blame local season ticket holders for being upset. It sucks for them. Really does. But I also think SU is betting on the one horse town theory (without making the blunder of actually saying it out loud). Come 2013 we'll have a 9 game, much more attractive, ACC Schedule. We'll be betting on SU's play improving to the point of competing in the ACC (note we're not going to be playing Bobby Bowden's 90's FSU or the '81 Clemson Tigers). At that point, there's a product that people will come to see, even if some segment of what's left of a season ticket holding base should bail based on NYC scheduling.

Not all schools are going to be in the demand NYC position, but I think OU wants to play in that space (see Cincy @ Paul Brown).

I think people are too focused on 2012. The future of SU football lies in 2013 and beyond.

A couple of things...

1) I wish this was about only about 2012. This isn't about this one decision. It is about a continuing string of decisions that seem designed to alienate the fanbase that attends games in the Dome.

2) You say when Gross made the promise, it was in the context of being in a 9 team Big East. He made the promise in August of 2009. TCU accepted an invitation to join the Big East on 11/30/10. Who is the ninth team you speak of?

3) I realize this isn't official yet. That is why I am trying to discourage it from happening.

4) I really hope that in the future, an ACC football schedule is seen by the SU fan base as a whole as 'much more attractive' than the BE schedules we have been playing over the past 20 plus years. Not hearing that from the people I talk to in CNY. Maybe the ACC will grow on people over time.

I don't think our conference affiliation will make much difference regarding attendance. The key is getting to a point were we consistently win more games than we lose and going to bowls on a regular basis. This area only supports winners.