Article Published in Post-Standard 8/18/09

[rrlbees]

Don't forget the articles about USC playing at the Dome also.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

He might have cost us a bowl game last year changing the schedule to play USC in Los Angeles and he might cost us a bowl game again this year scheduling an away game in Oklahoma when we are already playing USC in Jersey. We need to get to a bowl game this year. It is even more important to do this now after failing to go bowling last season. I think his top priority should have been to get a winnable and interesting home game for that 12th spot.

Yeah, Gross cost 'Cuse a Bowl game last season...

Not the end of season losing streak where they seemingly couldn't beat a middle school team.

Or the Rutgers game where they had million opportunities to win, but didn't take advantage of just one of them.

It was all Gross. No one else is at fault.

Not the lousy defense or the middling offense... And especially not the horrible special teams.

Sorry if you have an axe to grind with the guy, but to blame last season on Gross because he scheduled USC is ludicrous.

Especially when you consider that had he not scheduled USC, then 'Cuse never would've dropped the game with Va Tech.

And if we're being honest, there's no way they were winning that one either... Not that team anyway.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

-------------------
I have no idea about the OK issue: focusing strictly on Meadowlands scheduling:

Dr Gross comments in article:
1) "Obviously, we're very excited financially with the terms. It has the makings to be a terrific relationship for the future of our program."

2) On top of the money, Gross said playing in the new Meadowlands against USC and Notre Dame will provide enormous exposure for his football team in an area that he deems critical in terms of donors, marketing, recruiting and cachet.

3) Recruiting is really important. To play those games in the New York area, now you hit Northern New Jersey, now you hit Long Island, now you hit New York City, now you hit Pennsylvania, you have exposure that's unrivaled.

4)"It's huge for us. We liken this to the (Syracuse) basketball team playing at Madison Square Garden in the Big East. "

And there you have it... As much as this must pain the locals to hear, the fact is that it's not all about them.

It's about alumni, exposure, and potential recruits - Three things that are much more available to the program in Northern NJ than in Central NY.

And to borrow Scooch's thoughts from a previous post. Fans of many state schools travel 4+ hours to games each week.

This is once a year... If you don't wanna go then fine, watch on TV.

But quit bitching because a decision that was made for the greater good of the entire university and its football program inconveniences the 15,000-20,000 diehards that go to all the games.

 

[OttoMets]

The football vs basketball comparison doesn't hold water. We play 6 or 7 home football games. Moving one to NYC every year is a huge deal.

We played 3 games in MSG this season (not counting the upcoming BET). We still had 19 home games.

And the new stadium in the meadowlands is a nice billion dollar bauble, but it hardly has the cachet of MSG "The World's Most Famous Arena".

So playing 3 of 22 basketball games (13.6%) in New York is not a big deal, but playing 1 of 7 football games (14.2%) in New York is a big deal?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

So playing 3 of 22 basketball games (13.6%) in New York is not a big deal, but playing 1 of 7 football games (14.2%) in New York is a big deal?

This issue is split geographically. If you live in CNY you are all pissed about TGD moving games to Giants Stadium, if you live anywhere else you think it's a good move, or you are neutral.

I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to be. Let's face it, money and perception is what it is all about and without the Cuse playing hoops in metro NY vs St Johns, Rutgers, Seton Hall and at the BET, you will see more of this out of the box stuff.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

This issue is split geographically. If you live in CNY you are all pissed about TGD moving games to Giants Stadium, if you live anywhere else you think it's a good move, or you are neutral.

I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to be. Let's face it, money and perception is what it is all about and without the Cuse playing hoops in metro NY vs St Johns, Rutgers, Seton Hall and at the BET, you will see more of this out of the box stuff.

I live in New Jersey and I think it is a TERRIBLE move. Don't mean to sound like a broken record but losing 45-10 vs. USC at MetLife Stadium does nothing for Syracuse. Dollar signs are great in the short run, but not in the long run. The reported (on this board) $2 million that Cuse will receive from the MetLife people does not outweigh the negative publicity and embarrassment for the program (not to mention the alumni base in NYC metro area) if the game is a blow out. You think Cuse fans who live/work in the NYC area are going to like going to work on Monday after a blowout? I thought moving to the ACC was going to be a cash windfall for us, why whore ourselves out to MetLife???

It isn't a big deal in hoops because the hoops team IS established and successful. The football team WAS established and successful but it isn't anymore. Hoops is a hot ticket anywhere, football is not. 364 days a year the Syracuse football team plays/practices/works out in Syracuse, NY. We need to rebuild the fan base up there before we worry about appeasing the 10-20k fans that will go to a game at MetLife. At least if USC blows us out in the Dome, we would at least have the opportunity to showcase our fan support (I would hope we could get 45+ vs. USC) and recruits watching could get some idea what a packed Carrier Dome is like.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I live in New Jersey and I think it is a TERRIBLE move. Don't mean to sound like a broken record but losing 45-10 vs. USC at MetLife Stadium does nothing for Syracuse. Dollar signs are great in the short run, but not in the long run.

It's possible that TGD is also thinking long turn and that a poor Syracuse football team now doesn't necessarily equate to a poor Syracuse team in five years.

I think your example is probably the worst possible example. Now let's look at the best possible example. Cuse gets good in football (as in late 80's good). Teams like USC, Oklahoma, Penn State, Alabama, Notre Dame come to play us at Giants Stadium before 75,000 screaming fans.

Is that a possibility. Why not?

 

[OttosBestFriend]

I live in New Jersey and I think it is a TERRIBLE move. Don't mean to sound like a broken record but losing 45-10 vs. USC at MetLife Stadium does nothing for Syracuse. Dollar signs are great in the short run, but not in the long run. The reported (on this board) $2 million that Cuse will receive from the MetLife people does not outweigh the negative publicity and embarrassment for the program (not to mention the alumni base in NYC metro area) if the game is a blow out. You think Cuse fans who live/work in the NYC area are going to like going to work on Monday after a blowout? I thought moving to the ACC was going to be a cash windfall for us, why whore ourselves out to MetLife???

It isn't a big deal in hoops because the hoops team IS established and successful. The football team WAS established and successful but it isn't anymore. Hoops is a hot ticket anywhere, football is not. 364 days a year the Syracuse football team plays/practices/works out in Syracuse, NY. We need to rebuild the fan base up there before we worry about appeasing the 10-20k fans that will go to a game at MetLife. At least if USC blows us out in the Dome, we would at least have the opportunity to showcase our fan support (I would hope we could get 45+ vs. USC) and recruits watching could get some idea what a packed Carrier Dome is like.

Sorry, but I have a hard time taking your thoughts seriously being as your screen name is a pun.

Not to mention the fact that I couldn't disagree with your rationale any more if I tried.

"Dollar signs are great in the short run, but not in the long run"
Nope. Dollar signs are always great when it's football and basketball that pay all the bills.

"You think Cuse fans who live/work in the NYC area are going to like going to work on Monday after a blowout?"
Yeah, we shouldn't play big teams b/c alumni won't like going to work on Monday. And who said it's going to be a blowout? Have you no faith in the program?

And is it about playing in NJ or playing a tough team? Please pick an argument and stick with it.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

It's possible that TGD is also thinking long turn and that a poor Syracuse football team now doesn't necessarily equate to a poor Syracuse team in five years.

I think your example is probably the worst possible example. Now let's look at the best possible example. Cuse gets good in football (as in late 80's good). Teams like USC, Oklahoma, Penn State, Alabama, Notre Dame come to play us at Giants Stadium before 75,000 screaming fans.

Is that a possibility. Why not?

Definitely a possibility and of course I took my example to the extreme. But it is something that needs to be thought about.

SU keeps using "recruiting" as a positive to playing down there. How? Because the kids can cut down travel to see Cuse play in NJ? A kid isn't going to commit to a college because they play games 250 miles away. We need to get these kids to CAMPUS! Especially when a national powerhouse like your examples are in town. Even if this is a "home" game for Cuse at MetLife, they aren't allowed to do any official recruiting at this game. No pre-game lunches, no visits with the staff, etc... because the game is off campus.

This is all about money and casual fans in the NYC metro area. We need to create incentive for alumni and recruits to come to campus. Playing a USC, Oklahoma, or Bama at the Dome would be the incentive.

 

[OttoMets]

Definitely a possibility and of course I took my example to the extreme. But it is something that needs to be thought about.

SU keeps using "recruiting" as a positive to playing down there. How? Because the kids can cut down travel to see Cuse play in NJ? A kid isn't going to commit to a college because they play games 250 miles away. We need to get these kids to CAMPUS! Especially when a national powerhouse like your examples are in town. Even if this is a "home" game for Cuse at MetLife, they aren't allowed to do any official recruiting at this game. No pre-game lunches, no visits with the staff, etc... because the game is off campus.

This is all about money and casual fans in the NYC metro area. We need to create incentive for alumni and recruits to come to campus. Playing a USC, Oklahoma, or Bama at the Dome would be the incentive.

I agree pretty strongly with this and this.

Trouble is, there's no culture of (regularly) traveling to big college football games in the Northeast, and I don't think there's ever going to be. It's not Texas A&M or Oklahoma where big-money fans are going to pack up the RV and drive four hours to the middle of nowhere for a game. When our relatively modest athletic department is approaching wealthy alumni, it can come to them. Doing that once a year (or once every two years) doesn't mean recruits and alumni can't come up to Syracuse and enjoy a football weekend when the mood strikes.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

Sorry, but I have a hard time taking your thoughts seriously being as your screen name is a pun.

And your screen name is about being best friends with an Orange mascot...

Not to mention the fact that I couldn't disagree with your rationale any more if I tried.

"Dollar signs are great in the short run, but not in the long run"
Nope. Dollar signs are always great when it's football and basketball that pay all the bills.

What I meant with this comment is the fact that taking money to play home games away from campus isn't making this program any money in the long run. You are pissing off the real fans, the fans that you need to win back and get into the Dome.

"You think Cuse fans who live/work in the NYC area are going to like going to work on Monday after a blowout?"
Yeah, we shouldn't play big teams b/c alumni won't like going to work on Monday. And who said it's going to be a blowout? Have you no faith in the program?

This was a hypothetical to build off a point OttoforLife made earlier. The football program is somewhat of a joke right now amongst SU alums in the tri-state area. Getting run by USC is not going to help this and is going to make these alums even more unhappy with the state of the program.

Next year, realistically, the game will probably be a blowout. USC is going to be ranked #1 or #2 when Cuse plays them. We do not have the athletes to compete with them. I hope I am wrong.

As for my "faith in the program", in all honesty, I am beginning to lose faith. HCDM continues to do things that lead me to scratch my head and wonder what's up.

And is it about playing in NJ or playing a tough team? Please pick an argument and stick with it.

Its both. I am not completely against playing a game in NJ. However, I wish it was against a better match up. The bottom line is that SU getting beat up by a top 5 team on a neutral field does not do as much for SU or the football program as some here want to believe.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

I agree pretty strongly with this and this.

Trouble is, there's no culture of (regularly) traveling to big college football games in the Northeast, and I don't think there's ever going to be. It's not Texas A&M or Oklahoma where big-money fans are going to pack up the RV and drive four hours to the middle of nowhere for a game. When our relatively modest athletic department is approaching wealthy alumni, it can come to them. Doing that once a year (or once every two years) doesn't mean recruits and alumni can't come up to Syracuse and enjoy a football weekend when the mood strikes.

Definitely agree with your comment about culture. It is what makes coaching and recruiting for a northeast team so difficult.

However, I disagree with your second and third comments. I have no problem with the athletic department coming to the wealthy alumni. That is why they have The Lubin House, the DC house, and the LA house. You don't need to take a football game away from your home stadium for them.

As for your third comment about recruits and alums coming back, would you (I am assuming you are also an alum) rather travel to the Dome for a game vs. NC State or a game vs. USC? As we learned earlier this week, very few games have ever been sell-outs at the Dome. But there is little difference in the experience of 45+ in the Dome and a sell-out. We need people to begin to feel this again. That doesn't happen at MetLife.

 

[Scooch]

We agreed to play in the 1997 Kickoff Classic back when we were a little down (1994 I believe) and we went on to curb stomp Wisconsin. That was friggin' awesome.

NYC games are cool.

 

[baggerbob]

Until such time as the university or our area is able to build a stadium that seats 65,000-75,000 somewhere which is easily accessable by car, and has plenty of parking, the university needs to make as much money as possible. Besides if we're New Yorks team we need be there not only in basketball but also in football and if we have a chance add lacrosse to that.

 

[Moontan]

Lax has already played at the New Meadowlands... they played before the Giants & Jets did.

Nobody is opposed to occasional football games there. The concern is that *all* of the highest profile games will be played there... or to put it another way, *none* of the highest profile games would be played at the Dome. The 1-1-1 schedule with PSU is acceptable. The 2-0-2 schedule with ND is not.

Additionally, if as a result of these games, there are only 5 home games then that just rubs salt in the wound.

There's room for compromise here.

 

[rrlbees]

This issue is split geographically. If you live in CNY you are all pissed about TGD moving games to Giants Stadium, if you live anywhere else you think it's a good move, or you are neutral.

No doubt about it. If attendance goes down even more or doesn't pick up, it'll be the non-locals, for the most part, that will blame attendance for any issues.

 

[rrlbees]

It's possible that TGD is also thinking long turn and that a poor Syracuse football team now doesn't necessarily equate to a poor Syracuse team in five years.

If we are good in 5 years, then we should have less of a problem to get good teams in the Dome. UConn, rutgers and Temple seem to do it now. But wait, people will say that it because those teams are closer to NYC. The SU brand in NYC is as good if not better than all of those teams. It's a poor excuse.

 

[rrlbees]

Nobody is opposed to occasional football games there. The concern is that *all* of the highest profile games will be played there... or to put it another way, *none* of the highest profile games would be played at the Dome.

^^^This^^^

For the next 2 decades. Say that to yourselves. 2 decades.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Until such time as the university or our area is able to build a stadium that seats 65,000-75,000 somewhere which is easily accessable by car, and has plenty of parking, the university needs to make as much money as possible.

A new stadium ... what for?

So we can play in front of 30,000 empty seats?

 

[GoSU96]

^^^This^^^

For the next 2 decades. Say that to yourselves. 2 decades.

A lot can happen in two decades. And unless they are moving games against FSU, VT, and UM to the Meadowlands, it isn't every big game. And PSU has already signed up to play in the Dome. For one game a year SU fans have to do the same thing that most SEC, Big10, and Big 12 fans have to do 6, 7, 8 times a year.

I'd rather play those types of teams at the Meadowlands than not at all, or as road warriors like Boise has to do going to DC and Atlanta.

 

[rrlbees]

A lot can happen in two decades. And unless they are moving games against FSU, VT, and UM to the Meadowlands, it isn't every big game. And PSU has already signed up to play in the Dome. For one game a year SU fans have to do the same thing that most SEC, Big10, and Big 12 fans have to do 6, 7, 8 times a year.

I'd rather play those types of teams at the Meadowlands than not at all, or as road warriors like Boise has to do going to DC and Atlanta.

Yep, in 2 decades we could be good enough to demand 1-1 home/aways. Not now, it doesn't matter so I guess we are banking on being average. And as often as we will have a home game vs. 1 of those 3, it won't do much more than replace WVU.

 

[longtimefan]

So playing 3 of 22 basketball games (13.6%) in New York is not a big deal, but playing 1 of 7 football games (14.2%) in New York is a big deal?

The point is, the hoops fans still have 19 chances to watch the team in the Dome; the football fan base may have only 5.

 

[Scooch]

I'm admittedly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but someone needs to explain some things to me...

In addition to the USC game and 2 ND games, SU signed a 10 game/20 year deal with MetLife Stadium that starts in 2019. Right? Do I have that part down? Is the PSU game part of that, or separate?

Now, we're 7 years from the start of that 10/20 deal. So I guess I don't follow the "14 years" thing. We're not playing a game there every year for 14 years, right?

Once 2019 rolls around, assuming there is a contractual miracle and those terms actually stay in place for 20 years, we'd be playing a game there every other year. So worst case we'd still have every other year as an opportunity to get a "marquee" OOC opponent in the Dome, right?

I'm just having a hard time following the details. I get the angst, but I'd like to better understand the facts.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm admittedly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but someone needs to explain some things to me...

In addition to the USC game and 2 ND games, SU signed a 10 game/20 year deal with MetLife Stadium that starts in 2019. Right? Do I have that part down? Is the PSU game part of that, or separate?

Now, we're 7 years from the start of that 10/20 deal. So I guess I don't follow the "14 years" thing. We're not playing a game there every year for 14 years, right?

Once 2019 rolls around, assuming there is a contractual miracle and those terms actually stay in place for 20 years, we'd be playing a game there every other year. So worst case we'd still have every other year as an opportunity to get a "marquee" OOC opponent in the Dome, right?

I'm just having a hard time following the details. I get the angst, but I'd like to better understand the facts.

2012, 2013, 2014, 2016 then 10 more starting off in 2019 over the following 2 decades.

 

[Scooch]

2012, 2013, 2014, 2016 then 10 more starting off in 2019 over the following 2 decades.

Got it.

Honestly, it wouldn't shock me if we never actually do that 10/20 deal. 2019 is a long way off, so much in the college football landscape could change, and its likely that we have both a new AD and Chancellor before it even starts.