As fired up as people seem to be getting from Friday | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

As fired up as people seem to be getting from Friday

I'd have to go back and look at the stats but didn't Rhodes have like 600 to 800 yards of total offense as a freshman (rushing/receiving) ?

He might have, I remember him playing his Freshmen year at BYU in the first game so 600-800 total yards sounds about right. He was definitely a good player when healthy no argument from me.
 
2nd worst post ever, you have lost it. Take a break.

Lol. It would have been a bad post if I said what you claim. But I didn't. Have some coffee.

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You said that after the Senior class there was nobody. I just listed the nobodies. Case closed.

A team is made up of 5 classes. 3 horrendous classes. Top to bottom, 1-N, Marrone inherited more especially on offense.

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Yeah I am not sure where we said Marrone took over the better program, I certainly didn't.

Neither did I. That's why I think he was drinking.

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A team is made up of 5 classes. 3 horrendous classes. Top to bottom, 1-N, Marrone inherited more especially on offense.

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WR, that's it. Period, end of story.
 
I'd have to go back and look at the stats but didn't Rhodes have like 600 to 800 yards of total offense as a freshman (rushing/receiving) ?
Plus he had the game-winning TD run in the 12th overtime vs Va Tech. What a freaking great game that was. Nunes and Tyree looked like Manning and Harrison.
 
WR, that's it. Period, end of story.

Punching myself for entering this debate, because I think neither had much to work with on offense. But WR is a pretty big piece. Especially because in 2005, we clearly had the weakest WR unit in college football. I think there were probably at least a dozen 1AA teams between us and the next weakest 1A unit. GRob walked in, saw Gregory asking to play D where his heart was. Then saw Tim Lane, Rice Moss, JJ Bedle, Quinton Brown (talk about lack of size). He had to move a true freshman CB midseason to WR, and that turned out to be the only productive player. I've said it a million times, but if any of you can figure out how Pariani was going to make an offense click with that set of WRs, I'm all ears.

To me, the even bigger sign of how far SU let things fall, and how small and slow we had become, was the 2007 starting LB unit against Washington in that opener. Sure, GRob promised to bring in great players, but regardless, that's where we were headed.

Blame whoever you want. Buzz, Lou, Jake, P, GRob, Gross (for GRob). Doesn't matter. A lot of people had a hand in how bad we became, wasn't one man's doing.

Last year's collapse aside, I still think we're moving in the right direction. We'll show more of it this year, and be ready to compete at the big boy table by 2013.
 
Punching myself for entering this debate, because I think neither had much to work with on offense. But WR is a pretty big piece. Especially because in 2005, we clearly had the weakest WR unit in college football. I think there were probably at least a dozen 1AA teams between us and the next weakest 1A unit. GRob walked in, saw Gregory asking to play D where his heart was. Then saw Tim Lane, Rice Moss, JJ Bedle, Quinton Brown (talk about lack of size). He had to move a true freshman CB midseason to WR, and that turned out to be the only productive player. I've said it a million times, but if any of you can figure out how Pariani was going to do make an offense with that set of WRs, I'm all ears.

To me, the even bigger sign of how far SU let things fall, and how small and slow we had become, was the 2007 starting LB unit against Washington in that opener. Sure, GRob promised to bring in great players, but regardless, that's where we were headed.

Blame whoever you want. Buzz, Lou, Jake, P, GRob, Gross (for GRob). Doesn't matter. A lot of people had a hand in how bad we became, wasn't one man's doing.

Last year's collapse aside, I still think we're moving in the right direction. We'll show more of it this year, and be ready to compete at the big boy table by 2013.

I think you pretty much nailed it great post. I hate to say it but when I saw the names of those WR's again in your post I cringed, the fact we won even one game that year is a miracle, jesus.
 
It's kind of watching history repeat itself. At the end of Ben's tenure and then Maloney and Mac. Maloney's teams were a lot more exciting than GRobs and better as well but there do seem to be some parallels.
 
Punching myself for entering this debate, because I think neither had much to work with on offense. But WR is a pretty big piece. Especially because in 2005, we clearly had the weakest WR unit in college football. I think there were probably at least a dozen 1AA teams between us and the next weakest 1A unit. GRob walked in, saw Gregory asking to play D where his heart was. Then saw Tim Lane, Rice Moss, JJ Bedle, Quinton Brown (talk about lack of size). He had to move a true freshman CB midseason to WR, and that turned out to be the only productive player. I've said it a million times, but if any of you can figure out how Pariani was going to do make an offense with that set of WRs, I'm all ears.

To me, the even bigger sign of how far SU let things fall, and how small and slow we had become, was the 2007 starting LB unit against Washington in that opener. Sure, GRob promised to bring in great players, but regardless, that's where we were headed.

Blame whoever you want. Buzz, Lou, Jake, P, GRob, Gross (for GRob). Doesn't matter. A lot of people had a hand in how bad we became, wasn't one man's doing.

Last year's collapse aside, I still think we're moving in the right direction. We'll show more of it this year, and be ready to compete at the big boy table by 2013.

Chip...You should punch me in the face for responding but go back and look at the 09-10 roster..and the production on the field that year from the WR's

HCDM walked into the following WR's his first year:

Donte Davis, Lavar Lobdell, Van Chew & Marcus Sales (leaving Mike Williams and his 6 game side show off)...not exactly the 1927 Yankees there...And they had to move a DB (Dorian Graham) to WR the next year to make up for a lack of bodies

I agree that both Grob and HCDM walked into a mess...

this is the first year in the last 10 years that I can remember three of four kids that are able to play WR and play well...

I think a matured Sales, a Healthy Lemon, West, Kobena, Fleming and Hale might be the best accumulation we've seen in a long long time
 
I think you pretty much nailed it great post. I hate to say it but when I saw the names of those WR's again in your post I cringed, the fact we won even one game that year is a miracle, jesus.

We did return pretty much our entire OL and plenty of talent at RB. If we ran similar running plays and blocking schemes as we did with Deleone then we beat WV and Cincy, plus have a good chance vs UVA, @UConn, RU, @Pitt, and USF. That team with our current staff likely goes 4-7 that year. It is still bad but certainly not 1-10 bad. Which is why I don't give a whole lot of credit for our record the last three years as "improvement". We didn't have 10-37 talent IMO but more like 18-29 talent. This year will really show if Marrone has improved on that. If he goes 8-4 then he will be 25-24 (improvement!). However if he goes 4-8 then he will be 21-28 (SOS).
 
Donte Davis, Lavar Lobdell, Van Chew & Marcus Sales (leaving Mike Williams and his 6 game side show off)...not exactly the 1927 Yankees there...And they had to move a DB (Dorian Graham) to WR the next year to make up for a lack of bodies

Why leave off Williams? There was also Lemon who Grob got the commit from and Marrone retained.

The sum of those 6 guys are far far greater than what Grob was given.


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We did return pretty much our entire OL and plenty of talent at RB. If we ran similar running plays and blocking schemes as we did with Deleone then we beat WV and Cincy, plus have a good chance vs UVA, @UConn, RU, @Pitt, and USF. That team with our current staff likely goes 4-7 that year. It is still bad but certainly not 1-10 bad. Which is why I don't give a whole lot of credit for our record the last three years as "improvement". We didn't have 10-37 talent IMO but more like 18-29 talent. This year will really show if Marrone has improved on that. If he goes 8-4 then he will be 25-24 (improvement!). However if he goes 4-8 then he will be 21-28 (SOS).

I'm picking nits now, and I agree in general that the offense would have been more productive under Deleone with the system consistency (especially for the OL), but not all that productive. 2 long time OL starters graduated after 2004, one of them an NFL player. And it's hard to say "plenty of talent at RB", who was behind Rhodes? Kareem Jones, true freshman Curtis Brinkley?. The WVU mention brings up all sorts of other scenarios. 1) Does the defense play that well under the old regime? 2) Is that game a national TV season opener if we're not debuting a new staff? (highly doubt it). We more likely would have been playing the Pat White/Steve Slaton version of WVU, not the Bednarik/ Fumbling Jason Colston version. P's staff was already on a 3 game losing streak to Rich Rod and 2005 became Rich Rod's best version.

Maybe 3 win season, maybe equaling 2002's 4 win season. Definitely something better than the 1 win season. But looking back at that team and that schedule, I just can't imagine any scenario where they win 6 of the 11 games and go to a bowl.
 
Admins: Please lock this thread. It's making my head spin.
 
Maybe 3 win season, maybe equaling 2002's 4 win season. Definitely something better than the 1 win season. But looking back at that team and that schedule, I just can't imagine any scenario where they win 6 of the 11 games and go to a bowl.

Wasn't saying if P was HC we would get 6 Ws that year. We certainly would not have. But the O was such a mess that is cost us games. If GRob chose an OC that was similar in style to Delone, I think we certainly win the games I mentioned.

RB was so much better than what we have this year. We had Rhodes. Washington got hurt that year but he had higher credentials than any of our returning RBs this year. Even Kareem Jones had just as much as our current "stud". Plus we had Brinkley who was highly rated and a year older thanks to having to attend prep school.

The OL we had two year starter Franklin returning, Greene and Ojinnaka as returning starters, and Madison. We were never able to replace Terry but we had plenty to work with to have a strong run game.
 
Admins: Please lock this thread. It's making my head spin.

Train wreck theory? Can't stop looking even though you really don't want to, and really don't have to?
 
Wasn't saying if P was HC we would get 6 Ws that year. We certainly would not have. But the O was such a mess that is cost us games. If GRob chose an OC that was similar in style to Delone, I think we certainly win the games I mentioned.

RB was so much better than what we have this year. We had Rhodes. Washington got hurt that year but he had higher credentials than any of our returning RBs this year. Even Kareem Jones had just as much as our current "stud". Plus we had Brinkley who was highly rated and a year older thanks to having to attend prep school.

The OL we had two year starter Franklin returning, Greene and Ojinnaka as returning starters, and Madison. We were never able to replace Terry but we had plenty to work with to have a strong run game.

Whoa I agree with almost everything here but no way was the RB situation way better then what we have this year. Outside of Rhodes there was basically no established depth and the best backup was a true Freshman in Brinkley. Washington and Kareem Jones didnt have much in the way of credentials in fact I dont think Kareem Jones had a big time offer outside of SU. Morris alone is higher rated then any of those backs save Rhodes.
 
Whoa I agree with almost everything here but no way was the RB situation way better then what we have this year.

First you can't discount that team had Rhodes. Second we have nothing established on this year's team either. Brinkley was higher than any of our current RBs including Morris, who I think will be the starter by the Pitt game. Wasn't Washington higher rated as well? I am not saying Washington was good but at the same time saying what we have now is good is just blind faith.
 
Why leave off Williams? There was also Lemon who Grob got the commit from and Marrone retained.

The sum of those 6 guys are far far greater than what Grob was given.


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On page 5 you said Lemon was a Marrone recruit...that's why I left him off...

And I didn't say HCDM had it worse than Grob with the WRs..
 
On page 5 you said Lemon was a Marrone recruit...that's why I left him off...

And I didn't say HCDM had it worse than Grob with the WRs..

I misspoke as someone pointed out but I didn't get around to fixing it.

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Admins: Please lock this thread. It's making my head spin.

For goodness sake, we are debating again the various levels of why we've sucked. Very Rutgirls like.

Can we just agree that:

* On P's watch, the program DID slip into mediocrity and was on a downward trend

* The GROB era took that "momentum" and poured gas on it, albeit leaving some parts (players, better facilities)

* Marrone has "Flashed' on tangible results (year two) and we're hoping, yet not 100% sure, he's the Coach Mac of this era in terms of what the program will resurrect to?
 

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