Ash or Taggart...

[elimunelson]

The thoughts on Marrone here when he was hired were pretty good.

The reason Ash got panned were pretty simple:

- DC
- no HC experience
- we’d not hired a guy with HC experience since Mac and the track record was pretty mixed
- haven’t tried a guy with an O background, excluding Marrone, in our modern history

Sometimes, the answer is so glaringly obvious, everyone can see it.

Why is d coordinator a disqualifying factor? I don’t get it. I knew nothing of Ash like you guys back in 2015. All I’m saying is industry guys were high on him. He may be a bum but us chasing him didn’t see outrageous

 

[Alsacs]

Why is d coordinator a disqualifying factor? I don’t get it. I knew nothing of Ash like you guys back in 2015. All I’m saying is industry guys were high on him. He may be a bum but us chasing him didn’t see outrageous

He was Scott Shafer like. He had no HC experience and was successful with 5 star talent on defense.
Ash wasn’t why you changed from Shafer.
This fanbase had enough of no HC experienced D coordinators.
That is why Ash was a no go.
We wanted an offensive hire and got it.

 

[TheCusian]

Why is d coordinator a disqualifying factor? I don’t get it. I knew nothing of Ash like you guys back in 2015. All I’m saying is industry guys were high on him. He may be a bum but us chasing him didn’t see outrageous

Normally, it wouldn’t be. But coming off of a DC with no HC experience? With our history of hiring DC with no HC experience, at that exact moment? Disqualified.

He even sounded like SS. Going with a proven HC with an offensive background *hasn’t happened here* ... that’s insane

 

[NKR1978]

Why is d coordinator a disqualifying factor? I don’t get it. I knew nothing of Ash like you guys back in 2015. All I’m saying is industry guys were high on him. He may be a bum but us chasing him didn’t see outrageous

Wasn’t he the co-defensive coordinator? He didn’t even have the keys to his own defense. Winning at Ohio State with Ohio State talent does not transfer to winning at Syracuse with Syracuse talent.

Gerg was co-coordinator. And Ash is Terry Shea 2.0.

 

[MadNY3]

Who gets fired first?

Ash.

 

[SWC75]

Taggart went 7-21 at USF, then 18-4. But he won't get to 7-21 at FSU. he's not going to get fired this year or next, however. Rutgers in the Big Ten was a joke from the beginning. Ash might leave on his own.

 

[Townie72]

The thoughts on Marrone here when he was hired were pretty good.

The reason Ash got panned were pretty simple:

- DC
- no HC experience
- we’d not hired a guy with HC experience since Mac and the track record was pretty mixed
- haven’t tried a guy with an O background, excluding Marrone, in our modern history

Sometimes, the answer is so glaringly obvious, everyone can see it.

What's the saying? "It's not what you don't know that will get you. It's what you do know that isn't so."

For example, you have this checklist in your mind that you think is the answer to good coaching hires. Maybe you ought to formalize it and sell it to these schools that are desperately trying to get back to where they once were.

Frank Maloney came here from a DC spot at Michigan when the program was at it's absolute nadir. It took a while, but he was able to make SU respectable again. I'm sure there are a lot of other examples.

 

[Chip]

Taggart will get time. That OL was failing last year under Jimbo too.

I don't know what they do about Ash. Maybe they just go all Louisville and UConn and bring back Schiano (worked for one of those two).

If Buffalo beats them in New Brunswick this week (very likely, UB is better), maybe that's the end.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Imagine defending the idea of hiring Chris Ashe on a message board three years after the fact in a sunny Sunday afternoon.

 

[supp]

Why is d coordinator a disqualifying factor? I don’t get it. I knew nothing of Ash like you guys back in 2015. All I’m saying is industry guys were high on him. He may be a bum but us chasing him didn’t see outrageous

It's not but DCs can be more conservative in their strategizing and more meatheadish programmatically and we'd been down that road already and paid for it. I'm convinced that we cannot have "regular" success here at Syracuse. If we're not cutting edge, we're going to struggle longterm. And the cutting edge is usually happening on the offensive side of things, to which defenses then react (and eventually catch up).

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What's the saying? "It's not what you don't know that will get you. It's what you do know that isn't so."

For example, you have this checklist in your mind that you think is the answer to good coaching hires. Maybe you ought to formalize it and sell it to these schools that are desperately trying to get back to where they once were.

Frank Maloney came here from a DC spot at Michigan when the program was at it's absolute nadir. It took a while, but he was able to make SU respectable again. I'm sure there are a lot of other examples.

So long as we have the Dome, every head coach we have going forward should be offense oriented. Period.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Classic...

Brace yourself mods

I read the first 4 pages of that again just now, did we dodge a bullet or what. Rutgers is living all of our fears in that thread right now

 

[TheCusian]

What's the saying? "It's not what you don't know that will get you. It's what you do know that isn't so."

For example, you have this checklist in your mind that you think is the answer to good coaching hires. Maybe you ought to formalize it and sell it to these schools that are desperately trying to get back to where they once were.

Frank Maloney came here from a DC spot at Michigan when the program was at it's absolute nadir. It took a while, but he was able to make SU respectable again. I'm sure there are a lot of other examples.

You’re trying to make it seem like rocket science, lol. It’s not that different that hiring any job.

I think you create a matrix of things that are important, look at your history (what’s worked what hasn’t) - and compare that with gettable coaches. Then you see who is interested, and interview them.

Babers was on our list here *before* he was on the guy that was doing the hiring.

 

[supp]

What's the saying? "It's not what you don't know that will get you. It's what you do know that isn't so."

For example, you have this checklist in your mind that you think is the answer to good coaching hires. Maybe you ought to formalize it and sell it to these schools that are desperately trying to get back to where they once were.

Frank Maloney came here from a DC spot at Michigan when the program was at it's absolute nadir. It took a while, but he was able to make SU respectable again. I'm sure there are a lot of other examples.

Mac was a d guy too but we didn't take off until Deleone came on board with the freeze option.

 

[Townie72]

You’re trying to make it seem like rocket science, lol. It’s not that different that hiring any job.

I think you create a matrix of things that are important, look at your history (what’s worked what hasn’t) - and compare that with gettable coaches. Then you see who is interested, and interview them.

Babers was on our list here *before* he was on the guy that was doing the hiring.

If it's not rocket science, than why did it take SU so long to get it right? Why are so many other schools with good resources struggling?

Why wasn't Edsall successful at Maryland? Seems he would match your checklist pretty well. Why wasn't Pasqualoni successful at UConn?

In summary, I think your estimation of the coach selection acumen of the denizens of this board way exceeds mine.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If it's not rocket science, than why did it take SU so long to get it right?

Because we evaluated incorrectly what the Dome should mean for the vision of our football program.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I read the first 4 pages of that again just now, did we dodge a bullet or what. Rutgers is living all of our fears in that thread right now

I was amazed that I didn't show up until the last page of that thread. I think reading it killed my will.

 

[TheCusian]

If it's not rocket science, than why did it take SU so long to get it right? Why are so many other schools with good resources struggling?

You've already said it - Maloney won a national title as a DC with no HC experience. Every hire except Marrone followed that trend. It worked out with Mac and P. No one expect Mac had prior HC experience.

As for getting it right, what % of guys get fired due to performance? It's not that high if you're not an SEC school with crazy expectations.

Why wasn't Edsall successful at Maryland? Seems he would match your checklist pretty well. Why wasn't Pasqualoni successful at UConn?

I'm no expert on Maryland football. UCONN's rise to a few good years in Storrs in a mediocre Big East wasn't super impressive to me. But he had a shot.

Coach P was on his way to being washed up as HC here and then did nothing there. Plus, they got relegated to non-power conference status and recruiting took a hit. I wouldn't have hired him.

In summary, I think your estimation of the coach selection acumen of the denizens of this board way exceeds mine.

I think you're not giving the collective football minds here enough credit, sure. I think we were all right on Ash and Babers, respectively. Frost was an easy call to - Good coach, maybe a good fit - but has eyes on Nebraska.

 

[Townie72]

I have no idea what your point is.

My point is that fans who think they actually know who the next coach ought to be at SU or any other school (or who it shouldn't be) are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

That they were against hiring a coach (for whatever reason) and that coach subsequently failed doesn't mean they were right. Because they had about 20% of the knowledge the people who made the decision had when they made it.

 

[supp]

I have no idea what your point is.

My point is that fans who think they actually know who the next coach ought to be at SU or any other school (or who it shouldn't be) are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

That they were against hiring a coach (for whatever reason) and that coach subsequently failed doesn't mean they were right. Because they had about 20% of the knowledge the people who made the decision had when they made it.

Oh yeah, there's Townie sh!tting in the pie again. Tell us again, what is your point on this board? To police idle speculation? Why do you give a sh!tt? Just enjoy yourself.

 

[elimunelson]

Oh yeah, there's Townie sh!tting in the pie again. Tell us again, what is your point on this board? To police idle speculation? Why do you give a sh!tt? Just enjoy yourself.

that's unfair. Just because he comes from a different perspective doesn't mean it's not valid. We are all spitting in the wind as a message board does.

I think we speak in absolutes about coaches is his point. And he's right. It's pretty obvious that Dino was the right selection. Any idiot can figure that out. But what if we knew during the selection process he made it clear he's leaving for (i'm picking a random team here) USC if that job opens.

That is a part of the process that us dimwits don't know and would impact a coaching selection if an AD is looking to put a guy in place for a period of time.

I think Ash isn't doing well at Rutgers. Obviously. But that job is similar to Syracuse now in that a wrong hire can set that program back a decade plus.

 

[GoSU96]

I have no idea what your point is.

My point is that fans who think they actually know who the next coach ought to be at SU or any other school (or who it shouldn't be) are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

That they were against hiring a coach (for whatever reason) and that coach subsequently failed doesn't mean they were right. Because they had about 20% of the knowledge the people who made the decision had when they made it.

Well, some of us do.

 

[TheCusian]

I have no idea what your point is.

My point is that fans who think they actually know who the next coach ought to be at SU or any other school (or who it shouldn't be) are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

That they were against hiring a coach (for whatever reason) and that coach subsequently failed doesn't mean they were right. Because they had about 20% of the knowledge the people who made the decision had when they made it.

My point isn’t that I or anyone could effectively pick a coach without the help of a hiring team, BOT, etc. It’s a big decision that requires vetting and lots of info gathering.

My point is that the job pool for this kind of job is relatively small, easily whittled down, and the “philosophy” part (what kind of direction you want to go) is made out to be some kind of grad level good will hunting math problem when it’s not.

We didn’t just say “no DC, HC experience” - we freaking tracked the whole process with Dino for his whole season at Bowling Green. Someone ID’d the guy and then we did the best we could at finding out what we could. It was easy to see based on the available info -that he’d be a good fit and a required change of direction.

 

[TheCusian]

that's unfair. Just because he comes from a different perspective doesn't mean it's not valid. We are all spitting in the wind as a message board does.

I think we speak in absolutes about coaches is his point. And he's right. It's pretty obvious that Dino was the right selection. Any idiot can figure that out. But what if we knew during the selection process he made it clear he's leaving for (i'm picking a random team here) USC if that job opens.

That is a part of the process that us dimwits don't know and would impact a coaching selection if an AD is looking to put a guy in place for a period of time.

I think Ash isn't doing well at Rutgers. Obviously. But that job is similar to Syracuse now in that a wrong hire can set that program back a decade plus.

That’s not the point I was making. I was saying that if some of us were doing the hiring and we’re apart of the process and had all the info the team did - the actual process isn’t that hard.

Making the right choice with 20% of the
info would be impossible and inadvissable, obviously

 

[Townie72]

My point isn’t that I or anyone could effectively pick a coach without the help of a hiring team, BOT, etc. It’s a big decision that requires vetting and lots of info gathering.

My point is that the job pool for this kind of job is relatively small, easily whittled down, and the “philosophy” part (what kind of direction you want to go) is made out to be some kind of grad level good will hunting math problem when it’s not.

We didn’t just say “no DC, HC experience” - we freaking tracked the whole process with Dino for his whole season at Bowling Green. Someone ID’d the guy and then we did the best we could at finding out what we could. It was easy to see based on the available info -that he’d be a good fit and a required change of direction.

You wrote "we knew" Ash would be a failure here. And a big part of the justification was that he had been a Defensive Coordinator.

Of course, being a weatherman after the fact is a pretty easy job.

I guess your third paragraph is suggesting you "knew" Babers would be a success at SU because of the extensive staff work you all did.

And you believe that?