Awful.

[Chip]

Would probably be playing some combination of peer schools somewhere I imagine. Would have to think it would have been more enjoyable then getting beat up on a regular basis by schools in the south that we have absolutely no connection to.

Think most people here may prefer the bottom of the ACC vs the top of the AAC because of the prestige, money and the enjoyment level of that once a decade 10 win season. Winning more games on Saturday afternoons is more fun to me.

Have you paid any attention to SU football the last 2 years, or did you check out in the Covid year.

Other than FSU in 2022 (that sucked) what southern schools beat us up on a regular basis?

 

[JimBoston]

The last year we were in the Big East we had conference games against teams from:

Wisconsin
Indiana
Ohio
Illinois
Florida
Kentucky

I'll say for the umpteenth time... we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York this past season.

In 2003 we played 17 games in Syracuse, New York.

In 1987 we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York.

In terms of the location of our away games, the difference between our current conference and our previous conference is not playing once every 2 years in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey and Philadelphia. Instead we play in Charlottesville, Durham, Chapel Hill and Atlanta. That's it. If that's why we're doomed as program than we might as well shut the whole thing down.

Syracuse went to the ACC for 2 reasons: money and football. Everyone knew that basketball would take a hit including Boeheim. Syracuse had no choice about moving to the ACC. As a private school there was no state funding to cover losses.

Don't get me wrong, Syracuse will be a very competitive basketball school, but the formula for being a consistent top 10 program in the ACC needs to be determined. Clearly, NYC exposure is way down playing in the ACC. Look at the number of games Syracuse has played in MSG. In the 10 years since joining the ACC? 9. In the final 10 seasons in the Big East? 44. Syracuse basketball used to be a staple in NYC, but it isn't anymore and there are 10 p6 schools that are closer to NYC than Syracuse.

And, the Big East Tournament is one of the biggest draws in college basketball. It even sold out a Xavier/Marquette championship as almost ever school has a relatively large alumni base in the NYC metro area. Syracuse could easily bring 10k fans for a BET championship game. Would Syracuse bring 10k fans to Greensboro, NC for an ACC championship game? Doubt it.

 

[djorange1989]

The money is important but I still want to win consistently.

We can do that with a coach who actually, you know, tries to recruit and, gasp, plays something other than a 2-3. We haven’t been mediocre because we went to the ACC, we have been mediocre because we had a coach who needed to retire 7-8 years ago

 

[elimunelson]

Have you paid any attention to SU football the last 2 years, or did you check out in the Covid year.

Other than FSU in 2022 (that sucked) what southern schools beat us up on a regular basis?

Last year proved to me we are way over our head in the ACC for football. It was our best team in eons and we STILL lost 6 in a row after we were punched in the face and got dinged up to the point where we barely could field a line.

Our worst years in the Big East were because of incompetence at HC. Last year I felt we were very competent in our coaching but we are just overmatched.

Not sure why this isn't glaringly obvious to everyone. Our football team was salvaged only to be beat up in a southern centric football league that is deeper and better than us. Due to this paycheck, maybe because we had Jim Boeheim (maybe not), our basketball team has taken a real downturn into mediocrity. Yes we got to a sweet 16 and final four. BUT let's look ourselves in the mirror and ask: "are we as good as we were in the big east?"

Answer is no. Time will tell if it was chicken (boeheim) or the egg (the conference is a bad fit and has made us a less impactful location for recruits). Who knows we'll see

 

[Eric15]

Last year proved to me we are way over our head in the ACC for football. It was our best team in eons and we STILL lost 6 in a row after we were punched in the face and got dinged up to the point where we barely could field a line.

We were the beneficiary of some good luck against Purdue and Virginia. But it can't be overstated how much injuries killed us last year. Garrett and Sean were banged up, and our defense was just obliterated. That more than anything is what prevented us from being say a 9-4 team. I mean we blew the doors off a solid Louisville team when fully healthy.

 

[TheCusian]

Dumb premise. We're in a fine position for both sports and unlike UCONN, didn't have to lose one to keep the other.

UCONN got out from under their old HC, moved on, took advantage of new rules (NIL/Transfer) quicker. That's it. Good for them, I guess. I hate them, but they've built a good team this year. Crying over things that can't change or shouldn't have changed is loser stuff.

Take the ACC money, the new rules, new HC and build a Death Star.

 

[kingtidge]

We were the beneficiary of some good luck against Purdue and Virginia. But it can't be overstated how much injuries killed us last year. Garrett and Sean were banged up, and our defense was just obliterated. That more than anything is what prevented us from being say a 9-4 team. I mean we blew the doors off a solid Louisville team when fully healthy.

But that has been the rub under Babers. I mean you can say we are perrenially undersized in WR and on te lines, but we at least have skill and speed on the tier 1 of starters... when healthy we can put out a solid, competitive product, but injuries and depth continue to be an issue. When we get banged-up it's bubblegum and paperclips and hodgepodge of players moved around out of primary position for cover and green youngsters and depth tiers that clearly aren't good enough to even make us competitive (let alone start in the ACC).

 

[Sherman20]

I understand the rationale, however, IMO, it just makes for foolish, jealous and whiny arse banter. I mean, who gives a rats arse what they did between titles. They just achieved the ultimate prize! Again! Another naty! 5 titles in 24 years! That trumps everything!

I don't think there's an honest soul here that wouldn't take their "boom or bust" plight and 5 natys over our longer history of general success (total wins) but only attaining the ultimate pinnacle once.

Of course we would take that. No one’s arguing that point. The point is that it’s really odd to have a program go 5-0 in championship games and also have such down seasons in between. Typically the schools that win it all have been fairly consistent in the seasons leading up to winning it all and are usually contenders in the previous years.

 

[CuseN]

The switch to the ACC from the Big East is not the reason for the basketball inconsistency. The reason is playing an archaic defense that is not viewed as preparing recruits for the NBA. If you think about recruiting over the past few years, there were multiple times we were in the top 3 and top 5 for 5 star recruits. Having a 70+ year old coach and the zone hurt us in landing many of them. Even with those limitations, we still are an attractive basketball destination. Playing man and combined with a younger coach, will help us and we have the potential to get back to what we were consistently. The key in my opinion is not just recruiting, but if Red and the staff can develop talent and adapt to his roster.

 

[chugg21]

Have you paid any attention to SU football the last 2 years, or did you check out in the Covid year.

Other than FSU in 2022 (that sucked) what southern schools beat us up on a regular basis?

Have you paid any attention to SU football the last 10 years or did you check in only in 2018 and 2022?

You do realize we're 26-56 in conference games since moving to the ACC right? So the answer to your question is either most or all of 'em.

 

[Eric15]

The switch to the ACC from the Big East is not the reason for the basketball inconsistency. The reason is playing an archaic defense that is not viewed as preparing recruits for the NBA. If you think about recruiting over the past few years, there were multiple times we were in the top 3 and top 5 for 5 star recruits. Having a 70+ year old coach and the zone hurt us in landing many of them. Even with those limitations, we still are an attractive basketball destination. Playing man and combined with a younger coach, will help us and we have the potential to get back to what we were consistently. The key in my opinion is not just recruiting, but if Red and the staff can develop talent and adapt to his roster.

Well said. Please post more.

 

[capeorange]

In 10 years Syracuse Basketball will be back in the Big East and Syracuse Football will be in a league with Yukon, UMass, Army and whoever else doesn't want to make the jump to the inevitable super conferences

UMass?!!

Well well well, guess who just found CousCuse's burner account!

 

[chugg21]

In 10 years Syracuse Basketball will be back in the Big East and Syracuse Football will be in a league with Yukon, UMass, Army and whoever else doesn't want to make the jump to the inevitable super conferences

I don't think you're wrong. Possible that BC, Duke and Wake come along for that ride too.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Last year proved to me we are way over our head in the ACC for football. It was our best team in eons and we STILL lost 6 in a row after we were punched in the face and got dinged up to the point where we barely could field a line.

Our worst years in the Big East were because of incompetence at HC. Last year I felt we were very competent in our coaching but we are just overmatched.

Not sure why this isn't glaringly obvious to everyone. Our football team was salvaged only to be beat up in a southern centric football league that is deeper and better than us. Due to this paycheck, maybe because we had Jim Boeheim (maybe not), our basketball team has taken a real downturn into mediocrity. Yes we got to a sweet 16 and final four. BUT let's look ourselves in the mirror and ask: "are we as good as we were in the big east?"

Answer is no. Time will tell if it was chicken (boeheim) or the egg (the conference is a bad fit and has made us a less impactful location for recruits). Who knows we'll see

Under the current environment of college football, SU will be at a disadvantage. But that disadvantage isn't as large in the ACC as it would be in the B16 or SEC.

Obviously FSU and Clemson will be well ahead of us. But there is very little separating the rest of the conference. Which is why we have seen so much parity within the ACC. While that gives us a good chance at finishing in 3rd place, it also means we could finish in 14th.

That didn't happen in the Big East where we had baked in Ws of BC, Pitt, Rutgers, Temple every year. So we were looking at 5-2 in a typical year.

The typical year in the ACC we should go .500 against non FSU and Clemson schools. So we are looking at 3-4 Ws and 4-5 Ls. That difference in record has nothing to do with location. It is stepping up the level of competition.

If we were still in the Big East in BBall we would be no different than Seton Hall or Providence the last 10 seasons. So the downturn would have still been there.

But that is a false premise. If we had not gone to the ACC we would be in the AAC right now (unless you believe we make the B1G over Rutgers or Maryland). At best we are headed to the B12 next year, at worst we are in the AAC 2.0 which is horrible. Either way both options are worse than the ACC. There is no way that SU would sacrifice the FB program entirely like UConn did. So the Big East would never be an option.

If we left the ACC the best we could likely do is to lead in the creation of a new conference consisting of SU, UConn, Nova (FB jumps to FBS), Army (FB only), Navy (FB only), James Madison, ECU, USF, St Johns, Georgetown. That FB conference is pretty bad. That BBall conference is a mix of good and bad. On top of that we make maybe 1/3 of the money as we do in the ACC.

 

[Scooch]

Look at the number of games Syracuse has played in MSG. In the 10 years since joining the ACC? 9. In the final 10 seasons in the Big East? 44. Syracuse basketball used to be a staple in NYC, but it isn't anymore and there are 10 p6 schools that are closer to NYC than Syracuse.

Good post and I really appreciate you sharing the NYC data.

I have us at having played 18 times in NYC, between MSG and Barclays, since we joined the ACC.

It certainly didn't help our count that the three times the ACC had the conference tourney in Brooklyn SU went 2-3.

Obviously in the last 10 years of the Big East we were regularly playing 3+ games per tourney in NYC.

Personally I think our NYC presence is the least of our geographic issues, if there are some. We've played games there every season we've been in the ACC, save for one. And we've often visited twice in the same season for different events/games. We're still considered a "local" team by the NY media as well.

 

[capeorange]

We can do that with a coach who actually, you know, tries to recruit and, gasp, plays something other than a 2-3. We haven’t been mediocre because we went to the ACC, we have been mediocre because we had a coach who needed to retire 7-8 years ago

You switched from football to basketball?
I agree 100% with you on on recruiting, 2-3 and it was not the move to the ACC but our slide into mediocrity coinciding with our time in the ACC.

 

[orangecuse]

Syracuse went to the ACC for 2 reasons: money and football. Everyone knew that basketball would take a hit including Boeheim. Syracuse had no choice about moving to the ACC. As a private school there was no state funding to cover losses.

Don't get me wrong, Syracuse will be a very competitive basketball school, but the formula for being a consistent top 10 program in the ACC needs to be determined. Clearly, NYC exposure is way down playing in the ACC. Look at the number of games Syracuse has played in MSG. In the 10 years since joining the ACC? 9. In the final 10 seasons in the Big East? 44. Syracuse basketball used to be a staple in NYC, but it isn't anymore and there are 10 p6 schools that are closer to NYC than Syracuse.

And, the Big East Tournament is one of the biggest draws in college basketball. It even sold out a Xavier/Marquette championship as almost ever school has a relatively large alumni base in the NYC metro area. Syracuse could easily bring 10k fans for a BET championship game. Would Syracuse bring 10k fans to Greensboro, NC for an ACC championship game? Doubt it.

First sentence 100% true. Proceeding sentence, false. What everyone knew (or at least believed at the time) was that it was improbable that we would dethrone Duke and UNC. However, we would be there to challenge them for sure, and give them a run for their money relative to regular season and conference tournament titles.

I recall the sentiment here when we started 25-0, 12-0 in the conference during our inaugural year and the Johnny Manziel, "we are going to wreck this league" type mantra.

Remember that season? We went to Virginia with our all world PG Ennis going against another fellow frosh in no name Perrentes and company. Well, Perrentes took it to Ennis, and so did UVA. What, UVA? Huh! Who the heck are these guys seemingly coming out of nowhere. In the end, at least to this point in time, UVA became what we were supposed to have been in the ACC hoops wise.

 

[Sherman20]

The real Big East (80s) died when Miami, VA Tech, WV, Rutgers, Notre Dame were added. It became worse when Cincy, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette, USF were replaced Miami, VA Tech, BC.

I actually liked the Bloated Big East of the post-2004 era. It was an absolute gauntlet. Marquette and Louisville were really good programs to add. Cincy was back on its way up with Cronin. At least 8 of the programs were major national powers with tons of history and consistent success—Cuse, Gtown, UConn, Nova, Pitt, Louisville, Marquette and Cincinnati. Almost all of them had won national titles. You could even throw Notre Dame in there as a national brand. West Virginia was back on the upswing with Huggy returning home. And St John’s, Providence and Seton Hall had all been to Final Fours in the 64-team era.

 

[UpstateSM]

UMass?!!

Well well well, guess who just found CousCuse's burner account!

CousCuse wishes he had my UMass diploma

 

[UpstateSM]

I don't think you're wrong. Possible that BC, Duke and Wake come along for that ride too.

Probably Temple and Navy, too. The MAC might be the D1 football cockroach that will survive all of this intact so maybe some of those schools jump there for football only.

If 'Cuse ends up in the Big East for hoops and the tier below whatever the SEC/B1G turns into for football I would be happy. We could be very successful in both sports if that is how it ends up. But I am a diehard football fan who will watch Syracuse play whoever.

 

[AlaskaSU]

We are in the ACC, a strong basketball conference and we shouldn't focus on the Big East glory years which are a thing of the past. The top teams in this league regularly get commitments each year from multiple 4 and 5 star recruits. We haven't been able to compete because we have been losing out on recruiting battles which looks likely to change now that there's a new regime and renewed energy and direction. Folks complain about our program's lost luster and what we need to regain the top status we once had, but get upset and sentimental when there is talk about the possibility of Moore, Westry etc coming to us from the portal and replacing Copeland and Taylor. LSU women's team won it all with a complete revamp of their roster which included many players from the portal. Girard saw what was coming and decided to move on - if we do end up getting Westry, and if Taylor or Copeland don't want to sit another year, they are decent enough players to have good options in the portal. We will be fine now that our coaches are getting out there recruiting aggressively and making changes to our style of play. As long as we get back to winning and become a prestigious program once again, we will be fine and be able to jump to any conference if realignment is once again needed and will be welcomed with open arms.

We've sent out more rrcruit offers than ever before and got more rejections than ever before. Coincidence? Staff suddenly lost its edge? JB was not growing old faster than Uncle Roy and
Mike but recruits were not turning them down. Coincidence?
Recruiting is sakes and a good product image sells its. Brand is the be all and end all. Beast of the East was a priceless brand. Cuse in the South is an unbranded product. Kids are not buying it.

 

[orangecuse]

Of course we would take that. No one’s arguing that point. The point is that it’s really odd to have a program go 5-0 in championship games and also have such down seasons in between. Typically the schools that win it all have been fairly consistent in the seasons leading up to winning it all and are usually contenders in the previous years.

Okay, but, IMO, it's a goofy, woe is me/us Syracusefan.com type argument. Fact is, every year they won it all (other than '14 when they were a #7 seed) they had very good teams. They were a #1 seed in '99; #2 seed in '04, #3 seed in '11 and a #4 seed this year. The year they lost to #2 Sparty, in '09, they lost in the national semis as a #1 seed.

Bottom line is, other than '14 where they were a #7 seed, and got red hot come tourney time, they had very good seasons as their protected seed status portrays. Good for them for making the most out of their very good teams and taking care of business.

 

[syrBossHogg]

We've sent out more rrcruit offers than ever before and got more rejections than ever before. Coincidence? Staff suddenly lost its edge? JB was not growing old faster than Uncle Roy and
Mike but recruits were not turning them down. Coincidence?
Recruiting is sakes and a good product image sells its. Brand is the be all and end all. Beast of the East was a priceless brand. Cuse in the South is an unbranded product. Kids are not buying it.

Roy Williams literally retired partly because one of his top players transferred after his freshman year. Players were rejecting him too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Okay, but, IMO, it's a goofy, woe is me/us Syracusefan.com type argument. Fact is, every year they won it all (other than '14 when they were a #7 seed) they had very good teams. They were a #1 seed in '99; #2 seed in '04, #3 seed in '11 and a #4 seed this year. The year they lost to Sparty, in '09, they lost in the national semis as a #1 seed.

Bottom line is, other than '14 where they were a #7 seed, and got red hot come tourney time, they had very good seasons as their protected seed status portrays. Good for them for making the most out of their very good teams and taking care of business.

Good for them. Lots of luck too. Butler in 2011, UK in 2014 and San Diego State last night are 3 of the worst teams to make the final game ever. And I am not taking away anything from them.

They have blown up every hypothesis about being consistently good. It does not matter to them specifically.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We've sent out more rrcruit offers than ever before and got more rejections than ever before. Coincidence? Staff suddenly lost its edge? JB was not growing old faster than Uncle Roy and
Mike but recruits were not turning them down. Coincidence?
Recruiting is sakes and a good product image sells its. Brand is the be all and end all. Beast of the East was a priceless brand. Cuse in the South is an unbranded product. Kids are not buying it.

Why is Marquette, Xavier, and Creighton currently better than Nova, St. Johns, and Georgetown? There's no geographic commonality at all.