Awful.

[Scooch]

The last year we were in the Big East we had conference games against teams from:

Wisconsin
Indiana
Ohio
Illinois
Florida
Kentucky

I'll say for the umpteenth time... we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York this past season.

In 2003 we played 17 games in Syracuse, New York.

In 1987 we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York.

In terms of the location of our away games, the difference between our current conference and our previous conference is not playing once every 2 years in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey and Philadelphia. Instead we play in Charlottesville, Durham, Chapel Hill and Atlanta. That's it. If that's why we're doomed as program than we might as well shut the whole thing down.

 

[syrBossHogg]

It did? It's been stated here repeatedly that AD funds, etc. are not used for capital improvements, but from fundraising. Though, so was WORD about UConn's death, destruction and demise being a sure thing too.

Yes

 

[orangecuse]

The last year we were in the Big East we had conference games against teams from:

Wisconsin
Indiana
Ohio
Illinois
Florida
Kentucky

I'll say for the umpteenth time... we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York this past season.

In 2003 we played 17 games in Syracuse, New York.

In 1987 we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York.

In terms of the location of our away games, the difference between our current conference and our previous conference is not playing once every 2 years in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey and Philadelphia. Instead we play in Charlottesville, Durham, Chapel Hill and Atlanta. That's it. If that's why we're doomed as program than we might as well shut the whole thing down.

I've lived here in the Charlotte metro area now for nearly 3 decades. Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham, Greenville, SC (near Clemson) and of course Atlanta, are highly metropolitan areas, where a lot of folks are transplants from other areas of the country and are not from the south.

The cultural non fit is 100% malarkey.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I understand the rationale, however, IMO, it just makes for foolish, jealous and whiny arse banter. I mean, who gives a rats arse what they did between titles. They just achieved the ultimate prize! Again! Another naty! 5 titles in 24 years! That trumps everything!

I don't think there's an honest soul here that wouldn't take their "boom or bust" plight and 5 natys over our longer history of general success (total wins) but only attaining the ultimate pinnacle once.

Really? There would absolutely be people upset and care about that.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We decided to save our football program only to let the basketball program rust under our nose. Call it Boeheim hostage complex, call it the loss of our geographical je ne sais quoi, call it whatever but it is not working.

If Red falls flat on his face and the big east further propels higher now with Rick back in St Johns and Ed at the Town, the narrative is going to further bolster the "why the are we in the ACC floundering" only to see our great football team scratch and claw for 4-5 wins yearly.

The entire thing ultimately was bad for basketball. I can't be convinced otherwise. And the tailwinds the big east has are going to auger my argument further.

Having said that, it's a great internet message board argument. no one is possibly right here. Everyone is lurking in the gray area of "what ifs" and "why nots"

Correlation not causation.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

The last year we were in the Big East we had conference games against teams from:

Wisconsin
Indiana
Ohio
Illinois
Florida
Kentucky

I'll say for the umpteenth time... we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York this past season.

In 2003 we played 17 games in Syracuse, New York.

In 1987 we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York.

In terms of the location of our away games, the difference between our current conference and our previous conference is not playing once every 2 years in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey and Philadelphia. Instead we play in Charlottesville, Durham, Chapel Hill and Atlanta. That's it. If that's why we're doomed as program than we might as well shut the whole thing down.

Scootch, Scootch, you are confusing the issue with valid facts! Facts have no place in a discussion which is largely based upon fond, sentimental memories of a time that wasn't really how many fans think they remember it.

Do I miss the early days of the Big East? Yes. Do I miss the bloated mess it became? Not at all.

Do I miss those "traditional Northeast teams" Depaul, South Florida, Marquette, Cincy, etc? Not in the least.

Do I miss the fact that the small basketball-only's voted as a block against the interests of the schools like SU, Pitt, BC, etc who also played football? Why would I? As much as anything, they are responsible for what ultimately happened.

Have I ever felt entirely at home in a conference dominated by Southern schools? Not really, but it is an all-sports conference that includes football as well as basketball. I try to bite my tongue on everything else. There was never going to be a perfect all sports home for SU but this is the best compromise.

In the end, the ACC will not survive as it currently is. Clemson and FSU will split off for the SEC. A couple of schools not named Syracuse will be siphoned off by the B10. The remaining ACC schools will add some teams and it will survive, although it will no longer be major. Still, it will provide all of our programs a home among schools who view the totality of their sports programs in much the same way. The latter-day Big East never did that for SU nor will it ever do so. Miami, Pitt, BC, and VT knew that too, which is why they left the BE as soon as they could. You can toss in Rutgers if you want because we all faced the same problems in the Big East. If you think that this is an SU-only issue, you are mistaken. Being thrown a lifeline to escape the thing that the BE had become was a godsend. The administration knows it, the Athletic Dept knows it and most fans know it.

 

[JimBoston]

For sure. UConn went 9 years between winning tournament games and was largely irrelevant every season between their last two titles.

The problem that UConn faced is the same problem that may happen to Syracuse: the coach following a legendary coach probably struggles. And, Hurley took the slow rebuild path instead of pushing players out when he arrived. I don't think you can judge Red for the next 2 seasons as he has to reposition the roster for a new style of play.

 

[Chip]

The last year we were in the Big East we had conference games against teams from:

Wisconsin
Indiana
Ohio
Illinois
Florida
Kentucky

I'll say for the umpteenth time... we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York this past season.

In 2003 we played 17 games in Syracuse, New York.

In 1987 we played 18 games in Syracuse, New York.

In terms of the location of our away games, the difference between our current conference and our previous conference is not playing once every 2 years in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey and Philadelphia. Instead we play in Charlottesville, Durham, Chapel Hill and Atlanta. That's it. If that's why we're doomed as program than we might as well shut the whole thing down.

Almost Heaven joined a conference that's Almost Mountain Time. They've been doing fine.

The people nostalgic for the old Big East block out what it became.

 

[Scooch]

Scootch, Scootch, you are confusing the issue with valid facts! Facts have no place in a discussion which is largely based upon fond, sentimental memories of a time that wasn't really how many fans think they remember it.

Do I miss the early days of the Big East? Yes. Do I miss the bloated mess it became? Not at all.

Do I miss those "traditional Northeast teams" Depaul, South Florida, Marquette, Cincy, etc? Not in the least.

Do I miss the fact that the small basketball-only's voted as a block against the interests of the schools like SU, Pitt, BC, etc who also played football? Why would I? As much as anything, they are responsible for what ultimately happened.

Have I ever felt entirely at home in a conference dominated by Southern schools? Not really, but it is an all-sports conference that includes football as well as basketball. I try to bite my tongue on everything else. There was never going to be a perfect all sports home for SU but this is the best compromise.

In the end, the ACC will not survive as it currently is. Clemson and FSU will split off for the SEC. A couple of schools not named Syracuse will be siphoned off by the B10. The remaining ACC schools will add some teams and it will survive, although it will no longer be major. Still, it will provide all of our programs a home among schools who view the totality of their sports programs in much the same way. The latter-day Big East never did that for SU nor will it ever do so. Miami, Pitt, BC, and VT knew that too, which is why they left the BE as soon as they could. You can toss in Rutgers if you want because we all faced the same problems in the Big East. If you think that this is an SU-only issue, you are mistaken. Being thrown a lifeline to escape the thing that the BE had become was a godsend. The administration knows it, the Athletic Dept knows it and most fans know it.

As always, good post Dick.

Like most everyone here, I wish somehow we figured out how to build and maintain a strong, northeast-based, all-sports conference. But it just never happened, for a myriad of reasons.

I wish a centralized, ~75 program, football mega-league would form and conferences for all other sports could go back to being smaller and geographically logical. But I doubt that's happening.

It's also quite clear that the ONLY conferences who have long term stability and power are the SEC and Big Ten. Everyone else is gonna be listing about, changing leagues, and trying to compete in a ludicrous arms race.

One thing won't change... Syracuse University sports will play home games in Syracuse, New York. Well, aside from the occasional football game.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Scootch, Scootch, you are confusing the issue with valid facts! Facts have no place in a discussion which is largely based upon fond, sentimental memories of a time that wasn't really how many fans think they remember it.

Do I miss the early days of the Big East? Yes. Do I miss the bloated mess it became? Not at all.

Do I miss those "traditional Northeast teams" Depaul, South Florida, Marquette, Cincy, etc? Not in the least.

Do I miss the fact that the small basketball-only's voted as a block against the interests of the schools like SU, Pitt, BC, etc who also played football? Why would I? As much as anything, they are responsible for what ultimately happened.

Have I ever felt entirely at home in a conference dominated by Southern schools? Not really, but it is an all-sports conference that includes football as well as basketball. I try to bite my tongue on everything else. There was never going to be a perfect all sports home for SU but this is the best compromise.

In the end, the ACC will not survive as it currently is. Clemson and FSU will split off for the SEC. A couple of schools not named Syracuse will be siphoned off by the B10. The remaining ACC schools will add some teams and it will survive, although it will no longer be major. Still, it will provide all of our programs a home among schools who view the totality of their sports programs in much the same way. The latter-day Big East never did that for SU nor will it ever do so. Miami, Pitt, BC, and VT knew that too, which is why they left the BE as soon as they could. You can toss in Rutgers if you want because we all faced the same problems in the Big East. If you think that this is an SU-only issue, you are mistaken. Being thrown a lifeline to escape the thing that the BE had become was a godsend. The administration knows it, the Athletic Dept knows it and most fans know it.

The real Big East (80s) died when Miami, VA Tech, WV, Rutgers, Notre Dame were added. It became worse when Cincy, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette, USF were replaced Miami, VA Tech, BC.

 

[capeorange]

We still get $35 million or whatever it is, which is a ton more than U Conn.

The money is important but I still want to win consistently.

 

[elimunelson]

Why are you set in your ways? You just are doubling down on your opinion while ignoring the fact JB mailed in for 5 seasons.

No Jim Boeheim was a major reason for our malaise. I'm not absolving him. IN fact i was on record saying he should resign after the second probation. Still don't get why he didn't other than raw hubris.

It's nuance. i can believe both things. I just think we're going to end up in a situation ultimately where we have the worst of both worlds: a mediocre ACC (when all the programs others want leave) and a complete irrelevance because of it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No Jim Boeheim was a major reason for our malaise. I'm not absolving him. IN fact i was on record saying he should resign after the second probation. Still don't get why he didn't other than raw hubris.

It's nuance. i can believe both things. I just think we're going to end up in a situation ultimately where we have the worst of both worlds: a mediocre ACC (when all the programs others want leave) and a complete irrelevance because of it.

Red has been the coach for 2 weeks. He's brought in a top 3 transfer, has a visit with a top 40 HS player this weekend and just hired a coach from one of the top AAU programs in the country.

We have a 30,000 seat arena with some of the best basketball resources in the country with a strong NIL backing.

The lamenting of leaving the Big East reeks of people longing for what they view of the golden years of their life.

 

[SWC75]

We through we'd left Villanova and Connecticut behind but instead we are in their rear-view mirror.

Going to another conference for more money pleases the bean counters but it doesn't help us competitively because the other teams in the new conference get the same money. Meanwhile, we've moved away from our base and I think that's impacted us in all three of our major sports. I predict that USC and UCLA will have a rough go of it in the Big Ten because a lot of the kids they normally recruit are going to want to stay on the west coast.

I've bemoaned the fact that the most populous area of the country, (the Northeast) doesn't have a collegiate conference representing them. But I now realize they do- the Big East.

I think the whole thing will be reshuffled again before too long when the Big 10 and the SEC create their super-conferences and we aren't in one. Then we'll have to join with those who were 'left behind' in a conference that makes more sense for us.

 

[Chip]

We through we'd left Villanova and Connecticut behind but instead we are in their rear-view mirror.

Going to another conference for more money pleases the bean counters but it doesn't help us competitively because the other teams in the new conference get the same money. Meanwhile, we've moved away from our base and I think that's impacted us in all three of our major sports. I predict that USC and UCLA will have a rough go of it in the Big Ten because a lot of the kids they normally recruit are going to want to stay on the west coast.

I always thought we left UConn football behind (as well as Rutgers & West Virginia, but they found new homes).

I can't believe anyone thought that some of those original Big East hoops programs would die because we left. They still had all the same opportunities, as long as they hired a good staff.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We through we'd left Villanova and Connecticut behind but instead we are in their rear-view mirror.

Going to another conference for more money pleases the bean counters but it doesn't help us competitively because the other teams in the new conference get the same money. Meanwhile, we've moved away from our base and I think that's impacted us in all three of our major sports. I predict that USC and UCLA will have a rough go of it in the Big Ten because a lot of the kids they normally recruit are going to want to stay on the west coast.

Marquette, Xavier, and Creighton are all in the Midwest and play in the Big East. They all spent the entire year in the top 25 and were better than the legacy Big East programs with the exception of UConn.

 

[UpstateSM]

In 10 years Syracuse Basketball will be back in the Big East and Syracuse Football will be in a league with Yukon, UMass, Army and whoever else doesn't want to make the jump to the inevitable super conferences

 

[elimunelson]

Red has been the coach for 2 weeks. He's brought in a top 3 transfer, has a visit with a top 40 HS player this weekend and just hired a coach from one of the top prep programs in the country.

We have a 30,000 seat arena with some of the best basketball resources in the country with a strong NIL backing.

The lamenting of leaving the Big East reeks of people longing for what they view of the golden years of their life.

I'm convincing myself of good days ahead for SU Hoops too. You are making these straw man arguments. I root for SU, I am rooting for Red and i think he'll be successful.

It's a message board, we argue these things. Leaving the Big East for the ACC is a great argument because it has so many prongs to it. There's no right answer. You are trying to say i'm wrong to have an opinion and that my life is lesser now (weird) being in the ACC vs Big East.

 

[Scooch]

I predict that USC and UCLA will have a rough go of it in the Big Ten because a lot of the kids they normally recruit are going to want to stay on the west coast.

Those schools may not flourish in the B1G for a host of reasons, but I don't get the "stay on the west coast" part. USC and UCLA will still be located in Los Angeles, right? They'll play a majority of their football games, and roughly 2/3rds of their hoops games, in Los Angeles?

I get that someone's family in Cali are going to face more burdensome travel to see road games in the B1G. But it's not like games in Washington, Oregon, Utah and Colorado were quick jaunts.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm convincing myself of good days ahead for SU Hoops too. You are making these straw man arguments. I root for SU, I am rooting for Red and i think he'll be successful.

It's a message board, we argue these things. Leaving the Big East for the ACC is a great argument because it has so many prongs to it. There's no right answer. You are trying to say i'm wrong to have an opinion and that my life is lesser now (weird) being in the ACC vs Big East.

I think its a dumb opinion and have pushed back on it whenever it comes up because it inevitably leads to posters using it to give JB a pass. The best basketball schools in that conference this year outside of UConn were all geographically west of Syracuse. The Big East is dead.

 

[nccusefan]

But, but, but, we have to go to the ACC. Otherwise we'll end up like UConn.

Syracuse doesn't get tax dollars from the state to subsidize the athletic department like UCONN

 

[Hopkins16]

We are in the ACC, a strong basketball conference and we shouldn't focus on the Big East glory years which are a thing of the past. The top teams in this league regularly get commitments each year from multiple 4 and 5 star recruits. We haven't been able to compete because we have been losing out on recruiting battles which looks likely to change now that there's a new regime and renewed energy and direction. Folks complain about our program's lost luster and what we need to regain the top status we once had, but get upset and sentimental when there is talk about the possibility of Moore, Westry etc coming to us from the portal and replacing Copeland and Taylor. LSU women's team won it all with a complete revamp of their roster which included many players from the portal. Girard saw what was coming and decided to move on - if we do end up getting Westry, and if Taylor or Copeland don't want to sit another year, they are decent enough players to have good options in the portal. We will be fine now that our coaches are getting out there recruiting aggressively and making changes to our style of play. As long as we get back to winning and become a prestigious program once again, we will be fine and be able to jump to any conference if realignment is once again needed and will be welcomed with open arms.

 

[Cuse181]

I predict that USC and UCLA will have a rough go of it in the Big Ten because a lot of the kids they normally recruit are going to want to stay on the west coast.

The school isnt moving...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The #1 thing you need to recruit is your coaching staff. The #2 thing is your NIL money. I would put #3 as your program prestige. Then #4 you conference.

Last time I checked St Johns has been in the Big East the last 31 years. During that post Louie span they made 0.0 F4s, one E8 (way back in 1999), 0.0 S16s, and only eight NCAATs total. Only 3 NCAATs since 2002.

Our last 9 seasons have sucked and we have more success than they have in the last 31 years.

 

[chugg21]

Where do you think our football team would be if we didn't accept the invitation?

Our hoops performance is based on our own choices. And hopefully just a blip on the radar now that we've moved on.

Would probably be playing some combination of peer schools somewhere I imagine. Would have to think it would have been more enjoyable then getting beat up on a regular basis by schools in the south that we have absolutely no connection to.

Think most people here may prefer the bottom of the ACC vs the top of the AAC because of the prestige, money and the enjoyment level of that once a decade 10 win season. Winning more games on Saturday afternoons is more fun to me.