Awful.

[orangepassion]

who said drop football. I said we propped up football by joining the ACC. We have been given a stay of execution to underwrite a football team that is at best mediocre and at worst a great weekend trip for the other ACC schools who pencil (or pen) us in as a win yearly.

When we're left at the altar with the next round of musical football chairs, that'll be the decision tree moment for Sveryud and Wildhack what to do with this big asset that will be lurking far behind the SEC/BIG money machine.

I am just saying the hoops program, if it was an independently run operation, would be best served in the Big East with UConn, GTown, St Johns, et al.

I would love for us to play basketball in the BE and Football in the ACC, but unfortunately, that's not how it works.

 

[Sherman20]

Thread will be, and probably should be, deleted.

But watching UCONN win again is awful. Out of the Big East. A conference we helped create. To put it mildly. This is just bad across the board. Congrats to them. They deserve every bit of it. They rebuilt. Three losing seasons in a row (which for any of us is intolerable, same for them.). Then another NC.

I hope our staff takes this differently than JB ever would have.

But watching UCONN win is only 2nd bad to watching GT win. Crappy night for sure.

44cuse

At least we’re not the entire Big 10. No PROGRAM in that conference has won a title in 24 years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For sure. I find it so silly when rant about our program being "dead" if we don't do X, Y or Z on some accelerated timeline. A turnaround in college hoops is achievable in literally one season.

For sure. UConn went 9 years between winning tournament games and was largely irrelevant every season between their last two titles.

 

[Cuse'91]

They aren't on our level anymore; so I'm not worrying about them. Even before last night, they are a true Blue-Blood program. Unbelievable talent sent to the NBA in my basketball lifetime, I mean top 3 level talent. 5 NCs. Blue Uniforms. They check all the boxes as a Blue-Blood. Throw in the Women's program, and well...

 

[capeorange]

Winning football is where the money is, the end

FIFY

 

[Cuse181]

Your opinion for sure. I respect it and I may be wrong. I'm making all my opinions on how I feel about the program and how i felt about it when it moved to a southern tilting conference. My other take is it'll all be moot when the ACC falls apart in about 8 years. Then we'll see where we pivot.

Our basketball struggles will be further amplified without Ichabod Crane, the legend, not there anymore. He propped up our national relevance. The other relevant angle to our basketball program was being a pillar in the Big East.

Let's hope like hell that Red can coach and make do in the ACC. We're just not a fit there. I'm sorry. I watched more of the big east tourney than the ACC and the two teams i have historically rooted for left the Big East. It's just a better conference for a Syracuse.

Why is it a better conference for Syracuse? Is it because you have nostalgia for the conference of the 80s and 90s? Does playing Xavier, Creighton, and Marquette actually make more sense than playing Clemson, Wake and Miami? Does playing Georgetown, UConn, and St. John's actually help recruiting more than playing Duke, UNC and Virginia in 2023? I mean sure, its fun to pretend like Nova and Georgetown games carry the juice they did in the late 80s but if JT isn't on the sidelines does it really carry that much old school excitement? I don't think so. Did anyone actually care about the saint john's games the last decade Syracuse was in the BE? It was just another game on the schedule. It held more significance to me because I grew up watching those teams, the kids today probably have the same feelings about ACC teams because those are the teams they are watching.

As for the ACC decline I think it really is pure coincidence that Syracuse's decline occurred at the same time as joining the ACC. Sanctions + Hopkins leaving + the rise in southern programs (via prep schools) + JB losing his edge is what caused the downturn. The conference affiliation really had nothing to do with it.

 

[Sherman20]

Nova's laughing at us too as they have 3 natys to SU's and Gtown's lone.

Sure. I just meant that UConn has had many mediocre to bad seasons since their last title. And the first year they win ONE tourney game under Hurley in his 5 years there, they win the whole enchilada. The boom or bust with them over the past 15 years is just so improbable. As someone else said, they have some serious voodoo magic going on.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Uconn is college basketball’s daddy….accept it and move on.

 

[elimunelson]

I would love for us to play basketball in the BE and Football in the ACC, but unfortunately, that's not how it works.

don't be so myopic about how things are vs how they will be in 5 years.

LITERALLY everything changed in the past 3 years:
1. unlimited transfers, no sit out (that's kinda huge)
2. NIL/Bags for players (that's a big change)
3. Two conferences looking to break away (this will happen question of when)
4. tournament to expand shortly (it's on the front burner)

If i told you any of those 4 in 1991 after we lost to Richmond i would have been deemed a tin foil crazy person who toils on infowars daily. College sports are altering so fast that it's not INCONCEIVABLE that syracuse football finds itself a nice home in x conference and basketball finds itself in a very nice home in y conference.

why are we so set in our ways when the games themselves and college sports aren't?

 

[Sherman20]

For sure. UConn went 9 years between winning tournament games and was largely irrelevant every season between their last two titles.

They were pretty good the past two seasons, finished third in the BE both years. But flamed out in the tourney. This season they were on a whole other level though.

They held onto their good players, let others go, brought in key transfers and found some really good recruits that were somewhat underrated.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

For sure. UConn went 9 years between winning tournament games and was largely irrelevant every season between their last two titles.

We honestly haven't been that bad the last 9 seasons but were also irrelevant. A couple better decisions and we could get lucky and have another title. That is not to mention what happens if recruiting doesn't fall off.

Buddy lost us the 2019 Baylor game playing 39 minutes completely shell shocked if Howard plays we win and possibly go on a run. Last 2 seasons we could have built on the 2021 Sweet 16 team EVERYONE had remaining eligibility. JB added a future NBA player and still managed to drive the car off the cliff after. All we needed to make the Final Four in 2021 was Rutgers to hang on we beat them and Oregon State easily. No shot vs UCLA or the Zags but still. Everything was lined up for us to be really good the last 2 seasons.

 

[elimunelson]

Why is it a better conference for Syracuse? Is it because you have nostalgia for the conference of the 80s and 90s? Does playing Xavier, Creighton, and Marquette actually make more sense than playing Clemson, Wake and Miami? Does playing Georgetown, UConn, and St. John's actually help recruiting more than playing Duke, UNC and Virginia in 2023? I mean sure, its fun to pretend like Nova and Georgetown games carry the juice they did in the late 80s but if JT isn't on the sidelines does it really carry that much old school excitement? I don't think so. Did anyone actually care about the saint john's games the last decade Syracuse was in the BE? It was just another game on the schedule. It held more significance to me because I grew up watching those teams, the kids today probably have the same feelings about ACC teams because those are the teams they are watching.

As for the ACC decline I think it really is pure coincidence that Syracuse's decline occurred at the same time as joining the ACC. Sanctions + Hopkins leaving + the rise in southern programs (via prep schools) + JB losing his edge is what caused the downturn. The conference affiliation really had nothing to do with it.

teams have brand values. St Johns still holds on to some value. Rick Pitino is going to exploit that value to the highest level. Same with Georgetown. Those brands were built on the back of our brand.

I do think the affiliation had something to do with it. We agree to disagree but it wasn't 100% Jim Boeheim. He was a big % when the school stupidly let him dictate a retirement plan 2.0 after the second probation he landed us on. Something we tend to gloss over but which was a massive black eye on our perception as a rogue program nationally.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

don't be so myopic about how things are vs how they will be in 5 years.

LITERALLY everything changed in the past 3 years:
1. unlimited transfers, no sit out (that's kinda huge)
2. NIL/Bags for players (that's a big change)
3. Two conferences looking to break away (this will happen question of when)
4. tournament to expand shortly (it's on the front burner)

If i told you any of those 4 in 1991 after we lost to Richmond i would have been deemed a tin foil crazy person who toils on infowars daily. College sports are altering so fast that it's not INCONCEIVABLE that syracuse football finds itself a nice home in x conference and basketball finds itself in a very nice home in y conference.

why are we so set in our ways when the games themselves and college sports aren't?

This Uconn team was built the old fashioned way and how most of our best teams particularly 2003 or the 2010-2014 teams were for us. Recruits (mostly) rated in the 30-80 range totally outplaying their rankings and improving year to year. They didn't buy a team of burger boys like 2012 UK or 23 year old portal players at their 3rd school.

Meanwhile our fanbase is happy with participation trophies. Benny Williams looks like a deer in the headlights turns the ball over half of the time when he gets it yet people are excited for his third season and want him starting because he had 4 or 5 good games in blowouts and hit some wide open threes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

don't be so myopic about how things are vs how they will be in 5 years.

LITERALLY everything changed in the past 3 years:
1. unlimited transfers, no sit out (that's kinda huge)
2. NIL/Bags for players (that's a big change)
3. Two conferences looking to break away (this will happen question of when)
4. tournament to expand shortly (it's on the front burner)

If i told you any of those 4 in 1991 after we lost to Richmond i would have been deemed a tin foil crazy person who toils on infowars daily. College sports are altering so fast that it's not INCONCEIVABLE that syracuse football finds itself a nice home in x conference and basketball finds itself in a very nice home in y conference.

why are we so set in our ways when the games themselves and college sports aren't?

Why are you set in your ways? You just are doubling down on your opinion while ignoring the fact JB mailed in for 5 seasons.

 

[Bayside44]

We decided to save our football program only to let the basketball program rust under our nose. Call it Boeheim hostage complex, call it the loss of our geographical je ne sais quoi, call it whatever but it is not working.

If Red falls flat on his face and the big east further propels higher now with Rick back in St Johns and Ed at the Town, the narrative is going to further bolster the "why the are we in the ACC floundering" only to see our great football team scratch and claw for 4-5 wins yearly.

The entire thing ultimately was bad for basketball. I can't be convinced otherwise. And the tailwinds the big east has are going to auger my argument further.

Having said that, it's a great internet message board argument. no one is possibly right here. Everyone is lurking in the gray area of "what ifs" and "why nots"

We went to two Sweet 16s and a FF in the ACC. That's not a ton of rust.

 

[orangecuse]

Sure. I just meant that UConn has had many mediocre to bad seasons since their last title. And the first year they win ONE tourney game under Hurley in his 5 years there, they win the whole enchilada. The boom or bust with them over the past 15 years is just so improbable. As someone else said, they have some serious voodoo magic going on.

I understand the rationale, however, IMO, it just makes for foolish, jealous and whiny arse banter. I mean, who gives a rats arse what they did between titles. They just achieved the ultimate prize! Again! Another naty! 5 titles in 24 years! That trumps everything!

I don't think there's an honest soul here that wouldn't take their "boom or bust" plight and 5 natys over our longer history of general success (total wins) but only attaining the ultimate pinnacle once.

 

[NineOneSeven]

View attachment 226664

Was an easy bet, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. Just couldn’t stomach it.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Why is it a better conference for Syracuse? Is it because you have nostalgia for the conference of the 80s and 90s? Does playing Xavier, Creighton, and Marquette actually make more sense than playing Clemson, Wake and Miami? Does playing Georgetown, UConn, and St. John's actually help recruiting more than playing Duke, UNC and Virginia in 2023? I mean sure, its fun to pretend like Nova and Georgetown games carry the juice they did in the late 80s but if JT isn't on the sidelines does it really carry that much old school excitement? I don't think so. Did anyone actually care about the saint john's games the last decade Syracuse was in the BE? It was just another game on the schedule. It held more significance to me because I grew up watching those teams, the kids today probably have the same feelings about ACC teams because those are the teams they are watching.

As for the ACC decline I think it really is pure coincidence that Syracuse's decline occurred at the same time as joining the ACC. Sanctions + Hopkins leaving + the rise in southern programs (via prep schools) + JB losing his edge is what caused the downturn. The conference affiliation really had nothing to do with it.

The conference affiliation really had nothing to do with (the Orange decline).

YES...in fact...SU was a pretty good team in the first ACC season. The bigger problem is that the Orange are not a good cultural fit...which still matters. They're still outsiders who come by for a game once a year.

and

NO..." if JT isn't on the sidelines does it really carry that much old school excitement? "
True...it's not like the old days.
But it's still THE most important game on the season calendar...when the Orange get a shot at thrashing those despicable no-account scoundrels.

Keep hate alive!!

I LOOOOOOAAAAATHE G-town!

Go Orange!

 

[Bayside44]

teams have brand values. St Johns still holds on to some value. Rick Pitino is going to exploit that value to the highest level. Same with Georgetown. Those brands were built on the back of our brand.

I do think the affiliation had something to do with it. We agree to disagree but it wasn't 100% Jim Boeheim. He was a big % when the school stupidly let him dictate a retirement plan 2.0 after the second probation he landed us on. Something we tend to gloss over but which was a massive black eye on our perception as a rogue program nationally.

Those brands were not built on the back of our brands.

Chris Mullin didn't need Cuse to be Chris Mullin. Good grief.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Do people realize we would be in the AAC right now if we were not in the ACC?

 

[UpstateSM]

FIFY

You don’t need to be good at football to cash the checks. Ask Rutgers about that.

Their football program is still a joke but they made a fantastic basketball hire and now they have the cash to make sure he isn’t leaving.

 

[orangecuse]

Those brands were not built on the back of our brands.

Chris Mullin didn't need Cuse to be Chris Mullin. Good grief.

Nor did Walter Berry, Mark Jackson, Felipe Lopez, etc., etc.

 

[Cuse181]

teams have brand values. St Johns still holds on to some value. Rick Pitino is going to exploit that value to the highest level. Same with Georgetown. Those brands were built on the back of our brand.

I do think the affiliation had something to do with it. We agree to disagree but it wasn't 100% Jim Boeheim. He was a big % when the school stupidly let him dictate a retirement plan 2.0 after the second probation he landed us on. Something we tend to gloss over but which was a massive black eye on our perception as a rogue program nationally.

I guess I differ on how I view the importance of brand. I think about the role it plays in kid's decisions. St. Johns probably holds zero value in the minds of anyone 35 and younger from outside the tristate area. It only makes it worse if one think's their relevance was built on Syracuse's success, because then they can only hurt the school, not help them. Once Pitino is gone, the hype will be as well. This is band aid for them not a solution.

 

[Cuse181]

YES...in fact...SU was a pretty good team in the first ACC season. The bigger problem is that the Orange are not a good cultural fit...which still matters. They're still outsiders who come by for a game once a year.

and

NO..." if JT isn't on the sidelines does it really carry that much old school excitement? "
True...it's not like the old days.
But it's still THE most important game on the season calendar...when the Orange get a shot at thrashing those despicable no-account scoundrels.

Keep hate alive!!

I LOOOOOOAAAAATHE G-town!

Go Orange!

What cultural fit? What makes the big east culture different, because half the conference talks with Midwestern accents instead of southern?

As for Georgetown, ask anyone under 30 if they would rather sit midcourt at a Syracuse Duke or Syracuse Georgetown game, odds are they are going to pick Duke

 

[djorange1989]

FIFY

We still get $35 million or whatever it is, which is a ton more than U Conn.