Babers is exactly average according to SRS

[Millhouse]

Over his eight years at Syracuse, he is exactly average with a strength of schedule 2.45 point margin per game higher than average

At bgsu, he was .72 point margin per game better than average and the strength of schedule is 3.1 point margin per game worse than average

This year our SRS is -0.16

Shafer was -1.18 here

Marrone was exactly average too! What are the odds

Greg -8.19

P was 7.22 here. -0.2 the last three years. -5.91 at uconn. 4.9 overall

Mac 6.85

Maloney 2.49

Ben 6.38

Chick Meehan 11.56

 

[upperdeck]

i think the oline issues hide a bunch of gains in thr program. give us lsu oline and we are 2 games a yr better and people are smiling

 

[Millhouse]

i think the oline issues hide a bunch of gains in thr program. give us lsu oline and we are 2 games a yr better and people are smiling

I think it's funny that Babers is considered so bad, Shafer is considered horrible, and marrone is considered excellent when there is so little difference in schedule adjusted scoring margin

 

[texascpa]

Bring back Chick Meehan!

Edit: you misspelled Gerg

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Something every guy never wants to hear:

"You're ... average".

 

[Millhouse]

Unless you're a legend, if you've been around a while and fall back to average, and everything is stale and probably trending down, make the change

Babers has had long enough. You can find another average guy easy enough

 

[sufandu]

i think the oline issues hide a bunch of gains in thr program. give us lsu oline and we are 2 games a yr better and people are smiling

Yeah. I saw some guys make plays last game when given a chance. Those chances were few and far between. The dysfunction on the oline is making the whole offense dysfunctional.

Can we just bring Marrone in to develop an oline and assist with game planning and let Dino be the press guy and the guy that parents love?

 

[NKR1978]

I think it's funny that Babers is considered so bad, Shafer is considered horrible, and marrone is considered excellent when there is so little difference in schedule adjusted scoring margin

There’s a huge psychological difference in going 6–6 when you win a game, lose2, win 2, etc; vs 6-0 and ending 7–6. Same thing with 4-0 to 4-4. So, pretty much every other team in the ACC is getting better over the course of the year. Under Dino, we consistently end the year significantly worse than what we started.

 

[Scooch]

I think it's funny that Babers is considered so bad, Shafer is considered horrible, and marrone is considered excellent when there is so little difference in schedule adjusted scoring margin

It makes sense. Marrone inherited a disaster and made us average. Shafer inherited average and led a regression. Babers has been around long enough for us to see his game management and overall recruiting in great detail - so we know alllll of his weaknesses.

We’re not robots who only coldly evaluate coaches via analytics. Context and narrative resonate with humans.

Plus, SRS is nice and all, but it’s not the only metric that measures performance.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think it's funny that Babers is considered so bad, Shafer is considered horrible, and marrone is considered excellent when there is so little difference in schedule adjusted scoring margin

What's funny is I don't like any of them anymore.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Something every guy never wants to hear:

"You're ... average".

A lot of posters would kill to hear that...

 

[tep624]

Over his eight years at Syracuse, he is exactly average with a strength of schedule 2.45 point margin per game higher than average

At bgsu, he was .72 point margin per game better than average and the strength of schedule is 3.1 point margin per game worse than average

This year our SRS is -0.16

Shafer was -1.18 here

Marrone was exactly average too! What are the odds

Greg -8.19

P was 7.22 here. -0.2 the last three years. -5.91 at uconn. 4.9 overall

Mac 6.85

Maloney 2.49

Ben 6.38

Chick Meehan 11.56

Does SRS account for not being able to manage a clock, making in game decisions that even the announcers heckle and having teams that could put on a masterclass in how to commit penalties? Not everything that matters shows up in analytics. He’s beyond below average in areas that do matter.

You could have an employee that is extremely succesful at sales that is sexually harassing every woman they come into contact with and it would never show up in their sales performance metrics. For example.

 

[wfschrec]

Does SRS account for not being able to manage a clock, making in game decisions that even the announcers heckle and having teams that could put on a masterclass in how to commit penalties? Not everything that matters shows up in analytics. He’s beyond below average in areas that do matter.

You could have an employee that is extremely succesful at sales that is sexually harassing every woman they come into contact with and it would never show up in their sales performance metrics. For example.

Well I think it is a safe bet that Dino never groped anyone so we have that going for us. I mean it's not like we are Penn State or something ... I have to just shake my head at all the crap these B1G schools have done .. Mich St. and PSU leading the charge of course. Ah the good ole midwest ... home of pervert coaches and serial killers ...

 

[MGDCuse]

A lot of posters would kill to hear that...

 

[SU91]

There’s this league where only 32 people are paid silly money to coach football. Marrone was one of them. There are also these things called eyeballs. Marrone was such a better coach than Schafer or Babers, I don’t think it’s much of a debate.

 

[Cusefan95]

I

I think it's funny that Babers is considered so bad, Shafer is considered horrible, and marrone is considered excellent when there is so little difference in schedule adjusted scoring margin

I get hit with red heels when I point out the data doesn’t support Marrone being any more than average at best.

And the “eye test” defense is absurd - that’s just a guy telling us not to let a pesky data supported truth get in the way of his emotion-based belief.

 

[Scooch]

I


I get hit with red heels when I point out the data doesn’t support Marrone being any more than average at best.

And the “eye test” defense is absurd - that’s just a guy telling us not to let a pesky data supported truth get in the way of his emotion-based belief.

But Marrone being average was a huuuuge improvement over the walking disaster that he followed. So he’s remembered fondly.

Honestly, I agree that, objectively speaking, he wasn’t “great”. The glowing memories that people have of him are largely about 4 straight wins in late 2012.

But he pulled us out of the abyss, and that counts for something.

And Babers stinks because I said so.

 

[Millhouse]

It makes sense. Marrone inherited a disaster and made us average. Shafer inherited average and led a regression. Babers has been around long enough for us to see his game management and overall recruiting in great detail - so we know alllll of his weaknesses.

We’re not robots who only coldly evaluate coaches via analytics. Context and narrative resonate with humans.

Plus, SRS is nice and all, but it’s not the only metric that measures performance.

Its readily available, it's simple, it's reasonable, and I don't know what those other metrics are

I know people evaluate with all kinds of narratives but my narrative is that most emotional narratives suck

 

[Willy75]

Actually back during Covid I calculated SU's overall W-L record since I started as a student in 1969. It was within a few games of .500.

 

[Millhouse]

Does SRS account for not being able to manage a clock, making in game decisions that even the announcers heckle and having teams that could put on a masterclass in how to commit penalties? Not everything that matters shows up in analytics. He’s beyond below average in areas that do matter.

You could have an employee that is extremely succesful at sales that is sexually harassing every woman they come into contact with and it would never show up in their sales performance metrics. For example.

If those things matter, they should show up in the score. Often times his worst moments are in blowouts which are treated the same in SRS (a blowout is a blowout is a blowout, the scoring differential in a game is capped)

Babers used to be very good on fourth downs. Now he isn't. So even there he's average overall

 

[Millhouse]

There’s this league where only 32 people are paid silly money to coach football. Marrone was one of them. There are also these things called eyeballs. Marrone was such a better coach than Schafer or Babers, I don’t think it’s much of a debate.

Shrug
Do you root for the Giants?

 

[OrangeDW]

Unless you're a legend, if you've been around a while and fall back to average, and everything is stale and probably trending down, make the change

Babers has had long enough. You can find another average guy easy enough

How long does said legend get to be average and trend down though?

 

[Millhouse]

How long does said legend get to be average and trend down though?

Basketball board hated me for answering "as long as he wants"

 

[orangecuse]

What’s really”funny,” is that there is a world where people will make weak arguments with advanced type stats, etc. when W’s & L’s (19-43 ACC record to date) is by a landslide the most significant stat that ultimately matters.

There’s no world that’ll ever persuade me a 19-43 peer record is anything close to average.

 

[sufandu]

But Marrone being average was a huuuuge improvement over the walking disaster that he followed. So he’s remembered fondly.

Honestly, I agree that, objectively speaking, he wasn’t “great”. The glowing memories that people have of him are largely about 4 straight wins in late 2012.

But he pulled us out of the abyss, and that counts for something.

And Babers stinks because I said so.

And there's the context surrounding their situations. Marrone didn't have a real IPF, his budget for assistants was much less, and he was in a conference nobody took seriously. Would he have been more successful with the support that Babers has had? It's hard to say. I'm not sure his personality was made for long term college coaching even if he is a superior tactician. It's not a reach to assume we would have had a functional oline though.