Bad Night for bizarro SU "Negatoid" Nation!

[hungrychuck]

Are you an SU football fan? When were the “good old days” for SU football? There were some “slow spots” in the 1990’s even. how did you feel during them?

SU basketball is going through a difficult period. What you shouldn’t be feeling is:

Entitlement - there are scores of school with just as many resources as SU all trying to do the same thing.

Anger - such that you start a search for the guilty and attacking everything but Otto.

Suddenly Imbued with Superior basketball Strategy Intelligence - what has become obvious to you in your family room may not be as bright as you think it is.

What you should be feeling is:

Philosophical - SU has had a Hell of a run. Sports are cyclical. We are still OK. We have a shot at the Tourney.

Humble -

Attentive - JB, from having to utter “coach speak” is telling people the truth. Journalists are trying to pry controversial Statements out of him, but he ain’t biting.111111

You were doing OK until that last point.

JB has always done a great job of coming up with "controversial statements" all on his own. No journalist required.

 

[Townie72]

Really disappointed. When I saw this thread appear last night I thought it'd be up to 20+ pages by now

As the saying goes, “It Takes Two to Tango”. (Maybe only Dasher will get that reference)

Many of the Negatoids knew this was about them and didn’t want to join in. Others did, but said they were justified or mis-understood.

Hopefully this will have an impact. But I doubt it. Some people don’t handle frustration well. Others want to parade their opinions.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Of course.

But that’s not what we are arguing about here. What this is about is JB being ineffective now.

We have had a few threads on replacing JB. There were two groups. The optimists who feel we can upgrade and the realists who see maintaining our current level as a real challenge.

It actually is what I was talking about.

 

[br801]

Really disappointed. When I saw this thread appear last night I thought it'd be up to 20+ pages by now

Townie is doing his part with a Tyus Battle-like effort, but he can't do it alone.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Townie is doing his part with a Tyus Battle-like effort, but he can't do it alone.

Alsacs

AlpharettaCuse

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don’t agree with Townie on much, but it’s odd that it’s got to the point the board is quieter after wins than it is losses and it’s been heading that direction after a few years.

I was wondering today. Do we think last night was an anomaly, a move in the right direction for SU hoops, or Louisville going in the wrong direction.

 

[pearl31]

I was wondering today. Do we think last night was an anomaly, a move in the right direction for SU hoops, or Louisville going in the wrong direction.

Both.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I was wondering today. Do we think last night was an anomaly, a move in the right direction for SU hoops, or Louisville going in the wrong direction.

2 and 3 mixed

 

[br801]

Alsacs

AlpharettaCuse

I'm washing my hands of this when this thread goes off the rails.

 

[Townie72]

You were doing OK until that last point.

JB has always done a great job of coming up with "controversial statements" all on his own. No journalist required.

If you don’t think these “journalists” —- and I use the term advisedly- aren’t trying to bait JB into saying something they can use as a headline, than you don’t get the game that is being played at this or any other press conference.

Seems to me JB is conducting a seminar on how they should ask questions (and not venture their own opinions. Seriously, he ought to charging tuitions.

IMHO he’s doing the students from the DO a huge favor. Positive reinforcement is not the best way to learn.

 

[hungrychuck]

If you don’t think these “journalists” —- and I use the term advisedly- aren’t trying to bait JB into saying something they can use as a headline, than you don’t get the game that is being played at this or any other press conference.

Seems to me JB is conducting a seminar on how they should ask questions (and not venture their own opinions. Seriously, he ought to charging tuitions.

IMHO he’s doing the students from the DO a huge favor. Positive reinforcement is not the best way to learn.

Yes, of course. I've always thought that if JB ever did actually give up coaching, he'd be a lead candidate to be dean of Newhouse.

That's if other level heads like Jim Calhoun or Bob Knight didn't get there first.

 

[br801]

I was wondering today. Do we think last night was an anomaly, a move in the right direction for SU hoops, or Louisville going in the wrong direction.

None of the above. Just a single game in which the SU big three all played well and Dolezaj contributed.

 

[tbonezone]

No. Where did I say they were? What does that have to do with anything posted here? In fact, the post I quoted specifically said they were unranked.

So, only a a win on the road vs. a ranked opponent is worthy of praise? Oh wait, I get it. A road win by a team coached by James Arthur Boeheim shouldn't be worthy of praise. Is that it?

any road win is a good thing. just don't understand why you get so hyper wound up about 6-5 louisville.

 

[tbonezone]

Something I've always wondered: Is Tbonezone Blue Curtain under a different name? Their opinions and tone are so similar.

ok enuf bernie.

 

[JazzNC]

Of course.

But that’s not what we are arguing about here. What this is about is JB being ineffective now.

We have had a few threads on replacing JB. There were two groups. The optimists who feel we can upgrade and the realists who see maintaining our current level as a real challenge.

I understand you don't attribute the shortcomings of this team to ineffectiveness. After all, the guy can't help being old. The man didn't cause players to get injured. The sanctions were BS, etc.

I get it. But, unfortunately, his age will continue to negatively effect recruiting. The zone , while an effective defense, is not what many kids want to play (not JB's fault).

I also agree that Its highly unlikely that anyone else could come in and do a better job. It takes time to build what JB has built at SU.

But where I differ in opinion from you, is that I'm of the opinion that JB should have retired after our last Final Four run so he could go out on top. Since that did not happen, I think he should be given one last hoorah next year. IMO Dragging it out any further, will hurt the Syracuse program.

**And if JB cannot see that staying beyond that will hurt the program, than I'm inclined to say that he IS ineffective... ineffective at objectively judging when the time has come to let go of the reigns.**

 

[orange79]

any road win is a good thing. just don't understand why you get so hyper wound up about 6-5 louisville.

16-7 Louisville. At Louisville. Who had as many Quadrant 1 wins as we did going into last night's game. That's huge when going into Selection Sunday.

 

[hungrychuck]

16-7 Louisville. At Louisville. Who had as many Quadrant 1 wins as we did going into last night's game. That's huge when going into Selection Sunday.

No question it's a huge win even though this isn't a Pitino-level Louisville team.

With it, the season is still alive. Without it, you start getting into some pretty desperate scenarios.

 

[tbonezone]

sorry but louisville ain't a big deal this year. i am impressed we could win sat/mon playing just 6.

 

[orange79]

sorry but louisville ain't a big deal this year. i am impressed we could win sat/mon playing just 6.

Then you don't follow what certain wins mean when it comes to qualifying for the tournament. At the end of the year, this win will look very good.

 

[tbonezone]

i'm schooled on quadrants. cards are on a skid if you're paying attention. very good is a stretch . let's agree good. let's say we can close in the standing (they're just one game ahead) it might mean more if it came down to the last ACC bid SU vs. UL..

 

[DoctorBombay]

sorry but louisville ain't a big deal this year. i am impressed we could win sat/mon playing just 6.

I’m no Pollyanna, but even i can appreciate that the majority here had last nite penciled in as a loss.
L’Ville has owned us and we’re a short handed, limited team this year.
And yet...with one win, suddenly all is NOT lost.
So yes, it was a HUGE win yesterday in that it left us w/ some measure of hope.
And isn’t that what being a fan is all about? Every season, without fail and no matter what the record, i envision SU catching fire and making a run. And fact is, we HAVE pulled it off a few times- been left for dead and yet shocking the world.
Call me crazy, but I’d rather be that irrationally optimistic fan, rather than the kind who’s inclined to look for, and see the worst at all times...especially during the hard times.
JMHO

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Are you an SU football fan? When were the “good old days” for SU football? There were some “slow spots” in the 1990’s even. how did you feel during them?

SU basketball is going through a difficult period. What you shouldn’t be feeling is:

Entitlement - there are scores of school with just as many resources as SU all trying to do the same thing.

Anger - such that you start a search for the guilty and attacking everything but Otto.

Suddenly Imbued with Superior basketball Strategy Intelligence - what has become obvious to you in your family room may not be as bright as you think it is.

What you should be feeling is:

Philosophical - SU has had a Hell of a run. Sports are cyclical. We are still OK. We have a shot at the Tourney.

Humble -

Attentive - JB, from having to utter “coach speak” is telling people the truth. Journalists are trying to pry controversial Statements out of him, but he ain’t biting.111111

What? None of this even remotely addresses anything in the previous comments. Most of it is incoherent and irrelevant. But, whatever. To address YOUR points:

Football. Not sure how this is related. How many coaches have we had? Has the last 4o years of football also been "good old days" because of the one undefeated Sugar Bowl season? What was your point? A lot of slow points in football. I watch some of the games, but don't care much.

Entitlement. Who's entitled? I feel entitled to express dissatisfaction when i feel dissatisfied. And conversely, i expect to see a lot of rationalizations for why i shouldn't feel dissatisfied. But, what i don't accept is some sort of invalidation of my feelings with some nebulous and specious declarations that i'm not a 'real fan' because i don't deny problems. Yeah, there are scores of teams vying for the same kids and trying to achieve the same things. What's the point of saying that? Seriously—what's the point?

Anger. Who was "attacked?" Show me. Please. And yeah, while i'm occasionally critical of JB, you'll have to look long and hard for more than a few instances of me being very critical of the players. Some people who are ardent defenders of JB have no compunction about ripping the kids. And somehow, that's okay, because they're not in the HoF. Choose your ethos. I'll keep mine. Otto? Yeah, i don't like Otto. But, i've never "attacked" him/it/her/them. Honest opinion, though, if i had my druthers, i'd have a different mascot. I guess there was a point there. Somewhere.

Suddenly imbued... Jeezus. I don't even know where to begin. So... you are able to discern 'superior basketball strategy intelligence' but no one else is? Or, is it that because you agree with whatever he says/does, that means you are imbued with it by retroactive validation? What about when he changes? Which of his perspectives or strategies was the 'perfect' one? Which one did you have? Do you just shift along with him? That's frightening. When do you use your brain and eyes?

Thanks for telling me how to feel.

Sports are cyclical. Thanks. Appreciated. That doesn't bolster your assertion that we're 'always in the "good old days" as long as JB is the coach. Which is it? Are we in a cycle, or the good old days?

Humble. Um, what? I'll tell you what— you don't know anyone more humble than i am. And i don't say that as a 'trumpism.' If i had any less ego, i'd be a tortoise. But, re: sports 'fandom?' I'm supposed to be Humble, somehow? How do you express that? What does that look like in print? Tell me how someone who consistently feels 'entitled' to dictate how others should feel is also humble? How are you humble? Because you excuse everything that happens under JB?

Attentive. No idea what you're saying there.

I thought someone said you're an attorney. This post is weak sauce, sir. Maybe it's late and you've dipped into the cooking sherry?

If i'm ever in syracuse again, i hope to meet you. I wanna have a beer with you just to see what you really are. We'll hug it out afterward, and one of us will have a dynamite story to tell.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I’m no Pollyanna, but even i can appreciate that the majority here had last nite penciled in as a loss.
L’Ville has owned us and we’re a short handed, limited team this year.
And yet...with one win, suddenly all is NOT lost.
So yes, it was a HUGE win yesterday in that it left us w/ some measure of hope.
And isn’t that what being a fan is all about? Every season, without fail and no matter what the record, i envision SU catching fire and making a run. And, fact is we HAVE pulled it off a few times- left for dead and yet shocking the world.
Call me crazy, but I’d rather be that irrationally optimistic fan, rather than the kind who’s inclined to look for, and see the worst at all times...especially during the hard times.
JMHO

Agree with a lot of that, but your last statement might be what demonstrates the disconnect here.
Maybe The Optimistic really just don't understand how 'the other side' thinks. I don't see it as being "inclined to look for and see the worst at all times." Instead, i think of it as a compulsion toward objectivity, where expressing 'negatives' doesn't damage the overall view. If i love my mother more than anyone in the world, and then in the same breath say she can't drive for $h1t, what's the damage? It reminds me of the 'flag controversy.' Where some people lose their minds when someone expresses anything other than blind idolatry. I would think a mature mind could reconcile that you can love something and not love every aspect of it. And not feel like discussing the parts you don't like has any affect on the balance of it. I would think that it would be recognized by now that all of the people being put into the 'negatatoid' box have been here for years, and are as devoted as anyone else. So, where's the damage? If my Yankee-loving best friend says to me, "the Red Sox suck," wouldn't i have to be some sort of dipstick to freak out about that? Seems to me the only "meltdowns" here involve people trying to separate a fanbase into factions. What's the point? Makes them feel better about what? Being superior fans? Put that on your CV or in your bank account.

Nice win yesterday. I was ambivalent about our chances. Hadn't seen Louisville play this year, so i had no idea about their talent. But, as for them 'owning us,' i kinda dismissed that trend when it was determined Pitino wouldn't be on the bench... When the game began, i saw no reason why we shouldn't have been able to win the game. That said, sure, i was surprised when we actually did win. I call that 'objective.' But, here's the other thing: when you say yesterday's win left us with "some measure of hope," doesn't that imply two things? 1) That hope had waned prior to yesterday's win—which implies you weren't just optimistic by default and without selectivity; and 2) that you are predisposed to want to believe in a win versus the recent ugly loss. I saw the win, and remembered the loss, and so instead of a 'plus' i saw it as 'neutral.' Not a cancelling out of one or the other—just perspective. It meant what it meant, a win but not one that indicated a trend. Not yet.

 

[hungrychuck]

If i had any less ego, i'd be a tortoise.

In a great post full of many funny lines, this is the one that almost made me spit an expensive glass of Burgundy.

 

[iommi]

I was wondering today. Do we think last night was an anomaly, a move in the right direction for SU hoops, or Louisville going in the wrong direction.

I’ll chime in. This was a much-needed win. I think it’s a bit of a combination. I can’t escape the feeling that there was a certain amount of a great effort by our players and coaches in essentially a do-or- die situation but it was also more than a pinch of good fortune.

Louisville was coming off an uninspired loss, their team and crowd came out extremely flat and our players made a series of shots that had an extremely high degree of difficulty. When Louisville started pounding the ball inside they seized control, but then inexplicably started jacking up shots— much to our benefit.

This Louisville team isn’t very good but they have some talent, as usual; they just don’t look the same without Pitino.

I can’t call it a move in the right direction, other than our offense looked better. How much of that was us/ how much of that was them is debatable.