Bad Night for bizarro SU "Negatoid" Nation!

[CuseFaninVT]

A conversation about how much deference he should be given for past contributions seems to cede the point that he isn’t doing the best possible job that could be done under the circumstances now.

He hasn’t forgot how to coach. He’s smarter than he was, not dumber. He is as competitive as he ever was.

Frustrated fans looking for someone to blame for the failure of SU basketball to live up to their expectations or the level to which they are entitled as fans.

There’s nobody I would rather have in charge in this difficult period.

Of course, when you are in your den imagining that there are coaches that would be willing to come to SU and that would do a better job than JB, then it’s easier to say “throw the bum out”.

My view is that the Boeheim era at SU is “the good old days” Enjoy them while you can, guys.

You say he's smarter than ever and as competitive as ever. Do you have any evidence to back up these statements, or are they simply conjecture?

Further, what are your feelings on a succession plan? He can't coach forever. How will we communicate with potential recruits? What's the pitch? Come play for a guy older than your grandpa might work, might not.

 

[Townie72]

Ok. But does that mean that every time someone wants to be critical of JB they have to first list all of his accomplishments?

Isn't saying JB should be revered and appreciated for what he has done at Syracuse enough? Or does someone have to make a running list of every achievement before anything critical can be said.

IMO, some people are so sensitive that any critical post is seen as an attack.

Absolutely NOT!

I wish they would stop with the pussyfooting and forget about the guilt they feel with uttering the words.

Say what you want to say!

But then don’t complain when somebody argues with you.

The only legitimate fear is that the University hierarchy is going to let JB run the program into the ground because they cannot bring themselves to pry his hands off the airplane’s control as he insanely dives it into the ground.

 

[Townie72]

You say he's smarter than ever and as competitive as ever. Do you have any evidence to back up these statements, or are they simply conjecture?

Further, what are your feelings on a succession plan? He can't coach forever. How will we communicate with potential recruits? What's the pitch? Come play for a guy older than your grandpa might work, might not.

How do you account for the 2018-19 incoming class of recruits?

 

[HSPORANGE]

A conversation about how much deference he should be given for past contributions seems to cede the point that he isn’t doing the best possible job that could be done under the circumstances now.

He hasn’t forgot how to coach. He’s smarter than he was, not dumber. He is as competitive as he ever was.

Frustrated fans looking for someone to blame for the failure of SU basketball to live up to their expectations or the level to which they are entitled as fans.

There’s nobody I would rather have in charge in this difficult period.

Of course, when you are in your den imagining that there are coaches that would be willing to come to SU and that would do a better job than JB, then it’s easier to say “throw the bum out”.

My view is that the Boeheim era at SU is “the good old days” Enjoy them while you can, guys.

The bold comments above sum up message boards in general but especially this one. People tend to go off the deep end here when SU loses. Same goes for when SU wins. The overly negative crowd tends to take great pleasure and only post when SU loses. I'm confused as to why they take so much joy in ripping the program/coach/and student athletes after a loss.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

How do you account for the 2018-19 incoming class of recruits?

Why can't you answer my question without a question?

I think he's done a great job with that class. When will we see past next year?

 

[721Comstock]

You say he's smarter than ever and as competitive as ever. Do you have any evidence to back up these statements, or are they simply conjecture?

Further, what are your feelings on a succession plan? He can't coach forever. How will we communicate with potential recruits? What's the pitch? Come play for a guy older than your grandpa might work, might not.

Does Coach K have a succession plan?
Is lack of same hurting his recruiting?

How about Leonard Hamilton?
Larranaga? Ol’ Cryin’ Roy?
Or any other older coach?

Why is this only an issue for SU and JB?

 

[JazzNC]

A conversation about how much deference he should be given for past contributions seems to cede the point that he isn’t doing the best possible job that could be done under the circumstances now.

He hasn’t forgot how to coach. He’s smarter than he was, not dumber. He is as competitive as he ever was.

Frustrated fans looking for someone to blame for the failure of SU basketball to live up to their expectations or the level to which they are entitled as fans.

There’s nobody I would rather have in charge in this difficult period.

Of course, when you are in your den imagining that there are coaches that would be willing to come to SU and that would do a better job than JB, then it’s easier to say “throw the bum out”.

My view is that the Boeheim era at SU is “the good old days” Enjoy them while you can, guys.

I agree that JB has given us lots of great times and memories that will last forever. In fact we may NEVER have a coach better than JB. To say Hop would be doing better than JB is also naive.

BUT, JB is the oldest D1 coach, and unless he knows how to reverse his age, the conversation about JB's successor is not out of line. It's a hard one. It's a painful one. But it has to happen, probably sooner than later.

I also agree that finding another coach with the smarts, passion, and loyalty of JB who will be a HOF coach is highly unlikely. When ever an era begins to come to a close there are mixed emotions. No future coach will ever replace JB. IMPOSSIBLE! JB is Syracuse basketball. But maybe the future of the program doesn't have to cease to exist when he moves on?

Such discussion is not disrespectful and VERY VERY important.

 

[SWC75]

Something I've always wondered: Is Tbonezone Blue Curtain under a different name? Their opinions and tone are so similar.

 

[suttree]

Something I've always wondered: Is Tbonezone Blue Curtain under a different name? Their opinions and tone are so similar.

And BlueCurtain was often T-boned on this forum over the years.

It all makes sense now.

 

[br801]

Something I've always wondered: Is Tbonezone Blue Curtain under a different name? Their opinions and tone are so similar.

No chance. Some of Tbone's posts are actually clever and funny.

 

[Townie72]

I agree that JB has given us lots of great times and memories that will last forever. In fact we may NEVER have a coach better than JB. To say Hop would be doing better than JB is also naive.

BUT, JB is the oldest D1 coach, and unless he knows how to reverse his age, the conversation about JB's successor is not out of line. It's a hard one. It's a painful one. But it has to happen, probably sooner than later.

I also agree that finding another coach with the smarts, passion, and loyalty of JB who will be a HOF coach is highly unlikely. When ever an era begins to come to a close there are mixed emotions. No future coach will ever replace JB. IMPOSSIBLE! JB is Syracuse basketball. But maybe the future of the program doesn't have to cease to exist when he moves on?

Such discussion is not disrespectful and VERY VERY important.

Of course.

But that’s not what we are arguing about here. What this is about is JB being ineffective now.

We have had a few threads on replacing JB. There were two groups. The optimists who feel we can upgrade and the realists who see maintaining our current level as a real challenge.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

A conversation about how much deference he should be given for past contributions seems to cede the point that he isn’t doing the best possible job that could be done under the circumstances now.

He hasn’t forgot how to coach. He’s smarter than he was, not dumber. He is as competitive as he ever was.

Frustrated fans looking for someone to blame for the failure of SU basketball to live up to their expectations or the level to which they are entitled as fans.

There’s nobody I would rather have in charge in this difficult period.

Of course, when you are in your den imagining that there are coaches that would be willing to come to SU and that would do a better job than JB, then it’s easier to say “throw the bum out”.

My view is that the Boeheim era at SU is “the good old days” Enjoy them while you can, guys.

Well, that's one perspective.
1) He's got some degree of responsibility for the circumstances now.
2) Not sure how your metrics work, re: how smart he is versus previously. Results suggest that we used to be a top 20 team more often than we are lately. Games suggest he's doing things differently than he used to, even within a particular season. One doesn't have to be "dumber" to be less-effective. And experience, again, to use the line graph analogy, isn't a linear progression where if he coaches until he's 100 he'll be able to outsmart the world. "As competitive as he ever was?" That sounds like commentatorspeak. Nonsense.
3) I, personally, have never met anyone who worked as hard at age 73 as they did at 30, 40, 0r 50. Just because someone on-air says he does Pilates doesn't mean he's as invested as he used to be.

I never said "throw the bum out." And it doesn't serve your argument to consistently mischaracterize every criticism of JB as some entirely polemic matter without nuance. Fact is, someone will succeed him. So, it does you no good to sit your "den" wish casting his immortality. Again, you seem to need to misrepresent to make a case.

The boeheim era is "the good old days?" All of it? Is it really necessary to swallow it whole? Right now—this doesn't feel like the good old days. Tell me again how i'm supposed to be feeling? If you drill it into us again and again, maybe, just maybe we'll get it right.

 

[syrcuse]

Does Coach K have a succession plan?
Is lack of same hurting his recruiting?

How about Leonard Hamilton?
Larranaga? Ol’ Cryin’ Roy?
Or any other older coach?

Why is this only an issue for SU and JB?

1)recent # of WINS or lack thereof
2) few more years older has a lot to do with it
3) NCAA issues (punished) for the 2nd time
4) Program decline
5) several year vacation from serious recruiting
6) reported passing of the routine practice items to Hop (when he was here)

 

[orange79]

Not to be a wet blanket, but when there's chest thumping over a win versus an unranked opponent I think that says as much as any of the negative posts could.

Any road win in this league should be celebrated. Beating Pitt @ Pitt is one thing. Beating 16-7 Louisville @ Louisville should bring about some chest-thumping.

 

[Arangeman]

We all have different personalities, perspectives and opinions. Unless you are being malicious, I'm not sure why any poster should be criticized.

I prefer the opinions to be all over the map here. It would sure be boring if we were all the same.

 

[tbonezone]

Any road win in this league should be celebrated. Beating Pitt @ Pitt is one thing. Beating 16-7 Louisville @ Louisville should bring about some chest-thumping.

is louisville ranked ?

 

[Arangeman]

is louisville ranked ?

We needed a signature road win for our resume. It's something we lacked last year and may have kept us out. Right now this win is pretty damn big for us.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don’t agree with Townie on much, but it’s odd that it’s got to the point the board is quieter after wins than it is losses and it’s been heading that direction after a few years.

 

[orange79]

is louisville ranked ?

No. Where did I say they were? What does that have to do with anything posted here? In fact, the post I quoted specifically said they were unranked.

So, only a a win on the road vs. a ranked opponent is worthy of praise? Oh wait, I get it. A road win by a team coached by James Arthur Boeheim shouldn't be worthy of praise. Is that it?

 

[dasher]

I don’t agree with Townie in much, but it’s odd that it’s got to the point the board is quieter after wins than it is losses and it’s been heading that direction after a few years.

It's really striking.

 

[Dave]

We all have different personalities, perspectives and opinions. Unless you are being malicious, I'm not sure why any poster should be criticized.

I prefer the opinions to be all over the map here. It would sure be boring if we were all the same.

Jerk

 

[Townie72]

Well, that's one perspective.
1) He's got some degree of responsibility for the circumstances now.
2) Not sure how your metrics work, re: how smart he is versus previously. Results suggest that we used to be a top 20 team more often than we are lately. Games suggest he's doing things differently than he used to, even within a particular season. One doesn't have to be "dumber" to be less-effective. And experience, again, to use the line graph analogy, isn't a linear progression where if he coaches until he's 100 he'll be able to outsmart the world. "As competitive as he ever was?" That sounds like commentatorspeak. Nonsense.
3) I, personally, have never met anyone who worked as hard at age 73 as they did at 30, 40, 0r 50. Just because someone on-air says he does Pilates doesn't mean he's as invested as he used to be.

I never said "throw the bum out." And it doesn't serve your argument to consistently mischaracterize every criticism of JB as some entirely polemic matter without nuance. Fact is, someone will succeed him. So, it does you no good to sit your "den" wish casting his immortality. Again, you seem to need to misrepresent to make a case.

The boeheim era is "the good old days?" All of it? Is it really necessary to swallow it whole? Right now—this doesn't feel like the good old days. Tell me again how i'm supposed to be feeling? If you drill it into us again and again, maybe, just maybe we'll get it right.

Are you an SU football fan? When were the “good old days” for SU football? There were some “slow spots” in the 1990’s even. how did you feel during them?

SU basketball is going through a difficult period. What you shouldn’t be feeling is:

Entitlement - there are scores of school with just as many resources as SU all trying to do the same thing.

Anger - such that you start a search for the guilty and attacking everything but Otto.

Suddenly Imbued with Superior basketball Strategy Intelligence - what has become obvious to you in your family room may not be as bright as you think it is.

What you should be feeling is:

Philosophical - SU has had a Hell of a run. Sports are cyclical. We are still OK. We have a shot at the Tourney.

Humble -

Attentive - JB, from having to utter “coach speak” is telling people the truth. Journalists are trying to pry controversial Statements out of him, but he ain’t biting.111111

 

[oli44]

Any road win in this league should be celebrated. Beating Pitt @ Pitt is one thing. Beating 16-7 Louisville @ Louisville should bring about some chest-thumping.

I am sure BC fans feel the same way.

Expectations have been lowered. That is the only point I was making. I don't think it's that hot a take.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Don't sell yourself short. You're occasionally insightful.

Moar like inciteful amirite

 

[pearl31]

Really disappointed. When I saw this thread appear last night I thought it'd be up to 20+ pages by now