Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by MSOrange, Dec 30, 2016.
Yea, you know, nobody has ever worked out and gained muscle without the help of steroids.
Cmon man we can agree to disagree.
I don't think the guy is a HOF. You do which is fine.
I think steroids should keep guys out who wouldn't have gotten in without them.
It atleast makes more sense than the idiot media people not voting for Curt Schilling because of meme he liked which was a joke.
Your argument is because he is muscular, and have no shred of evidence besides a picture
There were 2 teams that were well above the pack that year and seemingly on a collision course. The Expos and Yankees. As a lifelong Yankee fan who hadn't seen a postseason yet (ok, 1981 I guess as an 8 year old during another strike year), 1994 killed me. Just as Edgar did in 1995. But 1996 to 2000 made up for it.
As to steroids on the late 90s Yankees team, the 1998 team was really smart about it. Don't have anyone hit more than 28 HRs.
If those teams were taking anything, it was a completely different product than Bonds, McGwire, Sosa used.
Schilling has a long history and storied history as an asshat, and it didn't begin or end with that meme. He is not in the HoF yet because his body of work as a baseball player makes his inclusion debatable. He may or may not get in, but ultimately if it doesn't happen for him, it will because his numbers were deemed not good enough.
I think the guy used I don't have a vote though.
You can have the fair belief innocent until proven guilty.
I think Todd Helton, Jim Thome,Frank Thomas are the 1b I would put in from that time.
If you wanted to put steroid guys as well Mark McGuire, Rafael Palmerio would be ahead.
I consider Fred McGriff ahead of Bagwell.
Jason Giambi will be interesting if roid guys are considered.
For the record I omitted the obvious Albert Pujols.
Go read Dan shaughnessy and Jon Heyman.
They changed their votes strictly because of politics. Schilling had 52% and was on his way in after the backload of the ballot was off which was this year but he is losing votes because voters hate his politics.
Curt Schilling's Tweets Are Costing Him Hall of Fame Votes
I think he will eventually get in, regardless. He had many years in which he missed a lot of starts, so he didn't compile the regular season totals of many HoF starters, but his stellar postseason numbers will push him over the top for enough voters, IMO.
I would hope it's only a handful of guys who think his numbers warrant inclusion but refuse to vote for him because of his hideous political beliefs.
I think eventually he gets in but Schilling has lost already 18 votes via the Twitter guy tracking all ballots.
Bagwell is getting in this year. He is over 90% on all
Public ballots thus far which are 40% total.
Vlad is at 75%.
yeah, no chance any of them used something
You could be right. Hey this is all subjective. Nobody is right.
So did the pitchers though. It evens out. Frank Thomas was always a big boy. Not to mention his eye and his swing would've made him a great hitter even if he was small. That guy was one of the more pure hitters I've ever seen.
Right, I think we should stop guessing who did PEDs. Judge people for what they accomplished on the field.
Ok, thanks. I had never seen it used before.
My gut reaction on Vlad was he's a no brainer HOF. Honestly, going back and looking at his stats, he's more borderline than I thought. I still think he should make it, but it did make me think a little. Like, he's not all that different than Larry Walker or Sheff. (Seriously, check their OPS+, it's eerie)
Nobody on the 1998 or 1999 position player Yankees were likely juicers but David Justice IMO was a juicer and he came on board in 2000.
Make no mistake every team was full of juicers though. Nomar, Manny I mean I am not saying my team was innocent. I do think Pedro was clean though.
Vlad was a better player than Walker IMO.
Vlad's OPS was hurt by Olympic stadium in Montreal being an awful hitting Park early in his career.
Vlad made shouldn't be a no doubt guy but I would put him a level above Walker.
Does Coors skew walker's OPS+?
I think Sheffield had a connection to BALCO which could hurt him.
Shef had to set the unofficial major league record for foul HRs.
My Ballot for 2017
FWIW: I think Raines, Bags and Hoffman get in this year.
Yes, I wouldn't vote for Hoffman.
Theres a lot of Hall of Very Good out there...Bagwell and Hoffman for 2.
Bonds and Clemens, just cut the shlit fellas.
Kent, is a HOFer.
Shef and Vlad will get in.
Schilling is an enigma now.
I think Moose will.
Posada could/should, but the anti-Yankee bias and Irod taking a lot of awards away hurts him. But for Peeing on his hands in place of batting gloves...i don't see why anyone wouldn't want to vote for that badass move.
I'm sorry Posada is not a hof, I like Kent, not enough people talk about him as a hof, he was a jerk, but a great player.
I'm a Yankees fan but I say no to Mussina. The reason is in that 2004 disaster Mussina was the ace of that team. He pitched decent in Game 5 but he needed to throw a shutout. That was their last chance to win. Can't give Torre a chance to put in a gassed out Tom Gordon.
Pitchers too cough Pedro cough
Vlad passed the "need to see him play if you get a chance" test. I took time out from boozing and whoring in a 2002 trip to Montreal to catch a game.
The guy was a horse, averaging 15 wins and over 200 innings pitched for 18 years, with a WHIP just under 1.200, pitching in a hitter's division in a hitter's era. Absolutely HoF worthy.
Moises Alou peed on his hands. Did Rodriguez do it also?
I'm too lazy to look it up, but no love for Albert Belle?
Separate names with a comma.