Battle & Brissett Stock Watch

rrlbees

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Watching Brisset right now. He's just spotting up in the corner and hoping to get a pass. Super uninvolved in the offense currently. To be fair, that's most of his role probably in the offense. Be a big 3-D wing. But the best ones (Danny Green) do other stuff to impact on offense--setting screens, backdoor cuts, etc.
He’s playing the 3 and this dumb offense has both the 2 and 3 just spot up in the corner. The whole offense is the pg and c runnning pick and pops.
 

kcsu

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Its sad but both Tyus and O are on the fringes. Tyus was an exceptional college player. He carried SU on his shoulders for many games. I know most feel as if OB has more upside but Tyus is a true gamer and i give him more of a chance at sticking because of his ability to both score and defend. OB has flashes of upside but at his size he has to be able to score from the perimeter and at this point his shot isnt good enough. He probably should have gone pro after his freshman year. I hope that they both catch a break and make it here or overseas.
 
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20Plus

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Its sad but both Tyus and O are on the fringes. Tyus was an exceptional college player. He carried SU on his shoulders for many games. I know most feel as if OB has more upside but Tyus is a true gamer and i give him more of a chance at sticking because of his ability to both score and defend. OB has flashes of upside but at his size he has to be able to score from the perimeter and at this point his shot isnt good enough. He probably should have gone pro after his freshman year. I hope that they both catch a break and make it here or overseas.
I think Tyus has a much better chance than Oshae
 

reedny

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He’s playing the 3 and this dumb offense has both the 2 and 3 just spot up in the corner. The whole offense is the pg and c runnning pick and pops.
I noticed the same thing. This offense forces him to the weak side corner, and even when he's wide open the guards can't seem to find him. Instead of getting the ball to the open man, they'd rather dribble into traffic or get rejected at the rim.

The good news is that Tyus' defense looks really good.
 
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FRANKIEFAN

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Just sucks another year at Syracuse with us being a high flying top ACC team for the first time since Ennis would land both in a better place next summer. UNC/Duke/UVA all breaking in new teams and the middle teir of the ACC like VT have been gutted as well for the most part. Shame both punted on trying to enter the NBA as first rounders and leading us back to the second weekend.
 

CardiacCuse

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The HATERADE is palpable throughout this thread.
Perspective is a beautiful thing- something to consider when some of you frustrated, envious wannabes & neverwas’, contemplate the venom directed at young men, who’re simply living out their dreams.
It’s particularly jarring to consider that often its our own, ahem, “fans”... who seem most willing, & almost eager, to denigrate these kids’ chances.
Call me a homer, I plead guilty, with pride. But, I’ve never fully understood the self-loathing which seems prevalent in our fanbase. JMHO
well I hope this isn't directed in my direction...

I don't consider myself a hater for simply pointing out that there has been a shift in terms of the decision-making process that current/recent players are making...(ts not easy to make these decisions i'm sure...but I'm also sure that recent trends do not bode well for the state of NCAA basketball as a whole)

I wish the best for Brissett and Battle...I truly do...

But this is a new era...leaving school early for a hail marry...that never used to happen in the 30 years or so I've watched the Cuse...even players like McCullough and Grant and Lydon etc were FIRST ROUNDERS when they left school without being ready to play in the NBA!

merely pointing out that shift (one that dismays me slightly as a fan of the sport of college basketball! I mean, NCAA bsketball now means so little to the players that they are willing to forego prime spots in the NCAA landscape for a slight chance of maybe making the NBA or to be interns at a shoe company...and you think that is haterade??) is not hating.
 

tbonezone

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batman /robin dynamics. i think with battle gone oshae would have been forced to step up his game.
next years draft would possibly been kinder. never know. pure speculation. but 1 more year IMO.
 

DoctorBombay

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well I hope this isn't directed in my direction...

I don't consider myself a hater for simply pointing out that there has been a shift in terms of the decision-making process that current/recent players are making...(ts not easy to make these decisions i'm sure...but I'm also sure that recent trends do not bode well for the state of NCAA basketball as a whole)

I wish the best for Brissett and Battle...I truly do...

But this is a new era...leaving school early for a hail marry...that never used to happen in the 30 years or so I've watched the Cuse...even players like McCullough and Grant and Lydon etc were FIRST ROUNDERS when they left school without being ready to play in the NBA!

merely pointing out that shift (one that dismays me slightly as a fan of the sport of college basketball! I mean, NCAA bsketball now means so little to the players that they are willing to forego prime spots in the NCAA landscape for a slight chance of maybe making the NBA or to be interns at a shoe company...and you think that is haterade??) is not hating.
That post was not directed at any particular person, rather at the general tenor of this thread.
Lately my particular axe-to-grind, & its JMHO, has been the negativity that is prevalent on this board. Yes, its one thing to offer an analysis based on POV, opinion, etc, but quite another to consistently forecast failure, nitpick every wart, and be generally dismissive of any of our own players' chances at the next level.
It's the "he can't shoot, dribble, and will never make a squad" posts that get my goat. And, again JMHO, it seems particularly prevalent amongst some in our fanbase, who almost revel in the denigration of "our" guys, whether past and present. The finality of predicted failure, directed mostly because a kid decides to leave early, is offensive and unnecessary. JMHO
 
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Capt. Tuttle

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all bets don't have the same odds.

the standard bet even in the '1 and Done' era where players are leaving earlier and more often...has been...to leave early with some kind of guarantee...usually for a first round spot...rarely will a player leave early for a second round slot...

this takes that to whole new level of long-shot...that's all i'm saying...

the calculus on these situations is nebulous...but the basic idea has always been if you have a sure chance of being a first-rounder...good chance the player is gone...a sure chance of 2nd rounder is probably 60-40 to return and try to increase stock and be a 1st rounder, depending on the specifics of the situation...

leaving early and going undrafted...that's a new frontier. how many times has a starter left to go undrafted from SU ...has a sophomore starter ever left SU to go undrafted. SU had 2 starters do that this year...kinda crazy...

its cool he wants to "bet on himself". i get it.

but its like betting your house on a 100-1 shot...(being generous with the odds)...

add in the Bazley to his couch move instead of playing for SU in NCAA and it is clear that players are valuing playing college basketball at an all-time low.

to me, it shows, especially the bazley and brissett moves...a supreme lack of grit. a supreme lack of perspective on hard work and determination. when the going gets tough they just bounce...to me it reveals that these guys are convinced they absolutely will not getting better by staying as an SU player...pretty bad sign imo...the sad thing is they are probably right.

battle is unique...I kinda get it...for whatever reason, he hit a cieling and had a low shot of improving...makes sense to give others a shot, kinda...still not the traditional move for a junior key player to bounce and go undrafted.
Why assume you increase your draftability? That is the false assumption. Tyus didn't. Lots of guys don't. Even John Wallace didn't really move up after the final 4 year.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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Just sucks another year at Syracuse with us being a high flying top ACC team for the first time since Ennis would land both in a better place next summer. UNC/Duke/UVA all breaking in new teams and the middle teir of the ACC like VT have been gutted as well for the most part. Shame both punted on trying to enter the NBA as first rounders and leading us back to the second weekend.
Nothing based upon OB's past can give a reasonable certainty that he would have been exceptional this year.
 

Dinkyspond

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I’m not certain another year would have helped either one of them shoot better and that’s what you need to stick these days. Their replacements on our current roster are better at that skill than them.
I love how people rationalize that the new unproven players are better than the proven players who decided to leave early. Battle would have been SU's all-time leading scorer if he stayed and only 3 players in SU history had a better first two years than Oshae in terms of scoring and rebounding combined. We know nothing about the new guys and I doubt they will come close to being as good as Tyus and Oshae.
 

Cusefan0307

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I love how people rationalize that the new unproven players are better than the proven players who decided to leave early. Battle would have been SU's all-time leading scorer if he stayed and only 3 players in SU history had a better first two years than Oshae in terms of scoring and rebounding combined. We know nothing about the new guys and I doubt they will come close to being as good as Tyus and Oshae.
I never said the new players were better. I did say they fit today’s game better which is predicated on passing and shooting and not one on one play. In another era Battle and Brissett make the NBA, but it’s not 2005 anymore and teams don’t value inefficient ball dominant players like they used. It’s also a reason why our offense stunk.
 
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OmahaCuse

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You have to be able to shoot the ball or score going to the rim well in basketball regardless of era. The only exception is if you are a defensive freak (blocking shots) (rebounding) like Rodman, Mahorn. Or, you are so much bigger and stronger like Shaq. The other exception would be a passing point guard who controls the ball and sets up shooters but even the good PGs need to consistently shoot or drive in the NBA. Unfortunately don't see Battle or Brissett fitting in or being specialist in the NBA. Both Mann and Kabengeli for example are much better than Brissett. They are both great kids and great athletes but don't handle the call or shoot well enough to make the NBA.
I never said the new players were better. I did say they fit today’s game better which is predicated on passing and shooting and not one on one play. In another era Battle and Brissett make the NBA, but it’s not 2005 anymore and trans don’t value inefficient ball dominant players like they used. It’s also a reason why our offense stunk.
 

tbonezone

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"hop on the bus gus. make a new plan stan . drop off the key lee. just listen to me."
leaving a situation where rent and meals are paid. 100k degree is paid. national exposure guaranteed.
some of these early entries are diving headfirst into the shallows . hoping these guys make it back to the wall.
 
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rrlbees

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"hop on the bus gus. make a new plan stan . drop off the key lee. just listen to me."
leaving a situation where rent and meals are paid. 100k degree is paid. national exposure guaranteed.
some of these early entries are diving headfirst into the shallows . hoping these guys make it back to the wall.
Many of them decide if they don’t make the nba they prefer getting paid in the G league or overseas instead of college ball. It’s their choice.
 

RealMcNeil

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Many of them decide if they don’t make the nba they prefer getting paid in the G league or overseas instead of college ball. It’s their choice.
How is it possible these players want or need to make money for themselves and/or their families using their abilities that will diminish over time?!

I genuinely love the what I'll call "made in the shade" points about players in college - it makes using the ignore button that much easier.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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"hop on the bus gus. make a new plan stan . drop off the key lee. just listen to me."
leaving a situation where rent and meals are paid. 100k degree is paid. national exposure guaranteed.
some of these early entries are diving headfirst into the shallows . hoping these guys make it back to the wall.
I don't know why people can't understand this: many of these kids don't want to be in college. They don't care about a degree. ( 3 groups of players -
a. guaranteed NBA guys, biding their time, because they have to;
b. wanna be NBA guys- some will make it, some won't, some will play in Euro and
c. the never NBA guys, using basketball to get a degree)
A&B Are in college to pursue basketball. They don't really care about a degree. They live in a world where you can figure out alot of jobs on Google or YouTube.

This exposure BS only works for guys like Zion to get shoe deals. You don't get drafted higher because you are on TV a lot.
 

manleyzoo

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"hop on the bus gus. make a new plan stan . drop off the key lee. just listen to me."
You're close but no cigar:
Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free
 

SUFan44

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I don't know why people can't understand this: many of these kids don't want to be in college. They don't care about a degree. ( 3 groups of players -
a. guaranteed NBA guys, biding their time, because they have to;
b. wanna be NBA guys- some will make it, some won't, some will play in Euro and
c. the never NBA guys, using basketball to get a degree)
A&B Are in college to pursue basketball. They don't really care about a degree. They live in a world where you can figure out alot of jobs on Google or YouTube.

This exposure BS only works for guys like Zion to get shoe deals. You don't get drafted higher because you are on TV a lot.
Simply not true. Can give you countless examples. Draymond Green is one. Cameron Johnson is another. Those guys stayed all four years and improved their ability to stick based on skills learned during their times in college.

Sure, there are a lot of guys who fall into those groups. Battle probably does. Brissett, IMO, does not.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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sure. and the ncaa tourney exposure didn't help malachi's draft stock ? ok. exposure matters most.
No. The scouts evaluate talent. Being seen on TV has nothing to do with that.
Do the fans or the scouting department/GM make the decisions.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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Simply not true. Can give you countless examples. Draymond Green is one. Cameron Johnson is another. Those guys stayed all four years and improved their ability to stick based on skills learned during their times in college.

Sure, there are a lot of guys who fall into those groups. Battle probably does. Brissett, IMO, does not.
Brissett was a "B", as were the others you mentioned.
 

SUFan44

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Brissett was a "B", as were the others you mentioned.
Then that group would be well advised to stay in college. Every player’s goal, so they say, is to play in the NBA. I do not agree that the G League is a better option than college. It is improving but it is still not as good of a training ground. No offense to him at all, he was a decent player for us, but John Gillon has better numbers in the G League than he did at SU.
 

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