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Benny Williams

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But he’s not playing him lol
Because, for some reason, he is doing things like going up for a jumper and having the ball fly backwards out of his hands, he is so much better than that and it comes down to his mental game.
 
Ok, didn't JB said something along the line of "he is not interested but we are applying for him", meaning Jimmy is not interested in coming back but they are petitioning for another year for him anyway in the remote chance that Jimmy changes his mind. So still more then likely Jimmy won't be back, right? Or there has been new info surfacing that I missed?
 
Ok, didn't JB said something along the line of "he is not interested but we are applying for him", meaning Jimmy is not interested in coming back but they are petitioning for another year for him anyway in the remote chance that Jimmy changes his mind. So still more then likely Jimmy won't be back, right? Or there has been new info surfacing that I missed?
Don’t focus on the way JB worded it, focus on the overall message.

If they’re applying for it, Jimmy is interested
 
Benny's 18, do you think 18 year Orangefog had it all figured out, or do you think that 18 year old orangefog had a lot of stupid ideas?
I don’t know how old you are, but you’ve cornered the market on stupid ideas.
 
I don’t know how old you are, but you’ve cornered the market on stupid ideas.
Your either with the Siths or the Jedi. Stop playing both sides of the fence.
 

Williams doesn’t plan to leave Syracuse and he wants to eliminate any discussion about him entering the portal.

“I saw a lot of stuff on Twitter and Instagram that said I would be entering the transfer portal in the middle of the season, but I just wanted to clear up any rumors that I won’t be entering the transfer portal in the middle of the season or at the end of the season, regardless of how this season pans out,” Williams said. “It’s no need to have the discussion. I picked this school for a reason and I’m trusting the process and everything’s going to take care of itself.”
I think Benny’s post says everything. Comes from his heart, IMO.

Looking at his post – he knows himself, he’s saying he’s not anywhere near the transfer portal, doesn’t put credence into the rumors and negative opinions expressed and is letting people know that so they can stop the opinions, doesn’t care how the teams season goes, he’s here because he wants to be and the coaches want him to be and trusts that he will be matriculated at SU in a positive way.

He is not the first top player to not get that much playing time. I have been watching since ’62 and there have been many great players who JB has pulled for a mistake to talk to over the years.

JB noted in a post from the PS when we were still in the Big East here that he believes that most players coming out of high school are not ready to contribute. They need to learn how we play. So, unless you are a Carmelo Anthony, Pearl Washington, Dave Bing, Roosevelt Bouie, or an elite player like the aforementioned you will be seeing limited playing time.

An example: Louie Orr was a star player from Cincinnati, Ohio who was the first recruit of new head coach Jim Boeheim. A tall splinter of a player, Orr would combine with Roosevelt Bouie to form the Bouie 'N Louie show at Syracuse, an outstanding four year record of 100-18. Games started as freshman – 2.
 
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I think Benny’s post says everything. Comes from his heart, IMO.

Looking at his post – he knows himself, he’s saying he’s not anywhere near the transfer portal, doesn’t put credence into the rumors and negative opinions expressed and is letting people know that so they can stop the opinions, doesn’t care how the teams season goes, he’s here because he wants to be and the coaches want him to be and trusts that he will be matriculated at SU in a positive way.

He is not the first top player to not get that much playing time. I have been watching since ’62 and there have been many great players who JB has pulled for a mistake to talk to over the years.

JB noted in a post from the PS when we were still in the Big East here that he believes that most players coming out of high school are not ready to contribute. They need to learn how we play. So, unless you are a Carmelo Anthony, Pearl Washington, Dave Bing, Roosevelt Bouie, or an elite player like the aforementioned you will be seeing limited playing time.

An example: Louie Orr was a star player from Cincinnati, Ohio who was the first recruit of new head coach Jim Boeheim. A tall splinter of a player, Orr would combine with Roosevelt Bouie to form the Bouie 'N Louie show at Syracuse, an outstanding four year record of 100-18. Games started as freshman – 0.
Some context for your example.
Orr was a freshman in 1976. That was 46 years ago.

It would be like comparing a player from 1941 to freshman year Derrick Coleman
 
I did this a couple of years ago. Currently, Benny Williams is averaging +2.7NP per 40 minutes:

The top ten improvements from freshman to senior:

Demetris Nichols + 12.2
As a freshman:
14.2m 9.9p 5.3r 1.4a 1.4s 1.5b 19.5+ 7.2mfg 0.9mft 1.4to 4.3pf 13.8- = 5.7NP 1.8OE 3.9FG
As a senior:
34.8m 21.8p 6.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.2b 32.6+ 9.1mfg 0.7mft 2.5to 2.4pf 14.7- = 17.9NP 12.0OE 5.9FG
A tremendous improvement in scoring: he made shots, (he missed a few more, too but he was taking more because so many of them were going in). He improved his rebounding, (which was pretty good for a jump-shooter), and made fewer fouls.

Herman Harried + 12.1
As a freshman:
6.6m 7.4p 8.9r 0.8a 0.5s 0.3b 17.9+ 6.8mfg 3.2mft 3.2to 5.0pf 18.2- = -0.3NP -2.6OE 2.3FG
As a senior:
10.8m 12.0p 10.4r 1.5a 1.7s 0.2b 25.8+ 4.3mfg 2.3 mft 2.3to 5.1pf 14.0- = 11.8NP 5.5OE 6.3FG
Herm was a career reserve but that didn’t mean he didn’t improve during his career. He scored more while missing fewer shots, (they don’t always go together: look at Nichols), He rebounded better, had more assists and steals, cut down on the turnovers and even missed fewer free throws.

Terrence Roberts +10.4
As a freshman:
7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG
As a senior:
28.8m 12.4p 11.1r 1.7a 1.3s 1.9b 28.4+ 4.1mfg 2.8mft 2.6to 4.4pf 13.9- = 14.5NP 5.5OE 9.0FG
Terrence was a popular choice on the thread about players who “didn’t pan out”. Often we make up our minds about players from first impressions: Terrence was a pretty good player by the time he was a senior. He just never became a good offensive player, which is what the fans focus on. I remember as a physically strong guy who played good defense and rebounded well. But we wanted a little bit more form our power forward. His stats basically improved across the board in his four years here, except for his free throw shooting.

Rakeem Christmas +9.5
As a freshman:
11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG
As a senior:
34.3m 21.6p 10.6r 1.8a 1.1s 2.9b = 36.7+ 6.2mfg 2.1mft 2.9to 3.9pf = 15.1- = 21.6NP 12.0OE 9.6FG
Rakeem was always a valuable player. His interior defense, platooning with Baye Keita, was a key to the 2013 Final Four run. But, as big men tend to do, the reduced his fouls as his career went along. And he also developed a productive inside scoring game, the last we have had.

Rony Seikaly +9.1
As a freshman:
25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG
As a senior:
31.0m 21.0p 12.4r 0.8a 0.8s 3.1b 38.1+ 6.2mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 3.9pf 17.0- = 21.1NP 11.1OE 10.0FG
A lot of people remember Rony as being awful when he first showed up here but he wasn’t. Like all our young big men he fouled too much but he was productive. He became a much better scoring threat as his career progressed and a better rebounder.

Lazarus Sims +9.0
As a freshman:
7.4m 5.7p 3.0r 6.2a 2.4s 0.0b +17.3 4.6mfg 1.6mft 5.9to 2.4pf -14.5 = 2.8NP -0.5OE 3.3FG
As a senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG
Sims was never a statistically prolific player. He was never a great scorer: he needed to be surrounded by players who were. But he was a big, strong guard at the top of the zone. He greatly improved his passing, although he still had more turnovers than people remember. He was a turnover machine as a freshman and considerably improved but still had the same number as Scoop Jardine did as a senior. His numbers are very close to Michael Carter-Williams this year, (MCW’s assist to turnover ratio was 8.3/3.9), except he wasn’t a scorer. He was willing to take chances to pass for baskets but not to shoot for them.

Etan Thomas +8.9
As a freshman:
16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG
As a senior:
32.4m 16.8p 11.4r 0.7a 0.9s 4.6b +34.4 4.2mfg 2.0mft 2.5to 3.9pf -12.6 = 21.8NP 10.6OE 11.2FG
As with Rony Seikaly, people remember him as a being terrible when he first showed up but he wasn’t. He never became a big-time scorer because he lacked a jump shot but he was a good inside guy and improved his rebounding and free-throw shooting while cutting down on the fouls. He was also one of the best shot blockers we’ve had, using his left hand so he wouldn’t have to reach across most player’s bodies to get to the ball.

Conrad McRae +8.5
As a freshman:
9.3m 8.4p 8.6r 1.1a 1.1s 4.3b +23.5 2.4mfg 2.4mft 0.5to 7.6pf -12.9 = 10.6NP 3.6OE 7.0FG
As a senior:
30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG
People often talk about Conrad as if he were some kind of “flop”. Again, I think they confuse big scoring and quality play and tend to remember him more form the first time we saw him. He put up some serious numbers as a senior, although he probably could rebounded a bit better. I would love to have had him this year. Like all big men he had to cut down on the fouls and became a better scorer over his career. Surprisingly he had more turnovers but has a better scorer, he saw more of the ball on offense. He missed more shots for the same reason. He was a great shot-blocker but his blocks went down slightly through his career as he became more selective and a better overall defender.

Adrian Autry +8.4
As a freshman:
33.2m 11.7p 3.1r 6.4a 2.4s 0.2b +23.8 6.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 4.0pf -15.4 = 8.4NP 4.6OE 3.8FG
As a senior:
35.7m 18.7p 5.4r 6.8a 1.8s 0.4b +33.1 8.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 2.9pf -16.3 = 16.8NP 9.6OE 7.2FG
Adrian came here as a highly rated point guard and was a big disappointment his first two years, ((8.4NP and 8.9NP). But then he became one of the best we’ve had, (14.6NP and 16.8NP). He was another big guard at the top of the zone. He wasn’t quite the passer MCW was but a better shooter, as Missouri found out in his final game, when he scored all 30 of his points after halftime in an overtime loss. He vastly improved his scoring in his career here but also became a strong rebounder from the guard position, (MCW was 5.5 per 40 minutes this year: Autry was 2 inches shorter and almost matched that as a senior. He missed more shots but was taking more as well. And he reduced his fouls, always the sign of a maturing player.

Rick Jackson +7.4
As a freshman:
12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG
As a senior:
35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG
Rick didn’t have one stat where he improved sharply: he got better across the board. He did block fewer shots, probably because he was played more at forward as a senior. And, of course, he committed fewer fouls, although that was not as big a problem when he was a freshman as it was for other SU big men, perhaps because JB was using more and more zone by then.

Dave Johnson +7.4
As a freshman:
14.6m 11.5p 5.5r 2.7a 1.3s 0.3b 21.3+ 5.2mfg 2.4mft 1.8to 5.2pf 14.6- = 6.7NP 3.9OE 2.8FG
As a senior:
37.9m 20.9p 7.4r 1.6a 1.6s 0.4b +31.9 9.7mfg 2.0mft 2.9to 3.2pf -17.8 = 14.1NP 9.2OE 4.9FG
Always an explosive athlete, Johnson found an outside shot as a junior, (and had an even better year than he did as a senior, (18.3NP). He also learned to use his strength and jumping ability to become a force on the boards. He missed a lot more shots, again because he was taking a lot more but, again, he reduced his fouls significantly. Jim Boeheim said DJ did the best dunk he’s ever seen: a 360 form the foul line to terminate one practice session, (nobody could follow that).
 
Some context for your example.
Orr was a freshman in 1976. That was 46 years ago.

It would be like comparing a player from 1941 to freshman year Derrick Coleman


I'd love it if Benny was averaging 9.4 points and 6.5 rebounds a game. We'd be wondering about our NCAA seed.

 
I'd love it if Benny was averaging 9.4 points and 6.5 rebounds a game. We'd be wondering about our NCAA seed.

Sure. I wasn’t comparing Benny Williams to Derrick Coleman or Louie Orr. I was suggesting pointing to a player in 1941 as to how to handle Coleman in 1987 would be ridiculous.

46 years is a long time.
 
I did this a couple of years ago. Currently, Benny Williams is averaging +2.7NP per 40 minutes:

The top ten improvements from freshman to senior:

Demetris Nichols + 12.2
As a freshman:
14.2m 9.9p 5.3r 1.4a 1.4s 1.5b 19.5+ 7.2mfg 0.9mft 1.4to 4.3pf 13.8- = 5.7NP 1.8OE 3.9FG
As a senior:
34.8m 21.8p 6.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.2b 32.6+ 9.1mfg 0.7mft 2.5to 2.4pf 14.7- = 17.9NP 12.0OE 5.9FG
A tremendous improvement in scoring: he made shots, (he missed a few more, too but he was taking more because so many of them were going in). He improved his rebounding, (which was pretty good for a jump-shooter), and made fewer fouls.

Herman Harried + 12.1
As a freshman:
6.6m 7.4p 8.9r 0.8a 0.5s 0.3b 17.9+ 6.8mfg 3.2mft 3.2to 5.0pf 18.2- = -0.3NP -2.6OE 2.3FG
As a senior:
10.8m 12.0p 10.4r 1.5a 1.7s 0.2b 25.8+ 4.3mfg 2.3 mft 2.3to 5.1pf 14.0- = 11.8NP 5.5OE 6.3FG
Herm was a career reserve but that didn’t mean he didn’t improve during his career. He scored more while missing fewer shots, (they don’t always go together: look at Nichols), He rebounded better, had more assists and steals, cut down on the turnovers and even missed fewer free throws.

Terrence Roberts +10.4
As a freshman:
7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG
As a senior:
28.8m 12.4p 11.1r 1.7a 1.3s 1.9b 28.4+ 4.1mfg 2.8mft 2.6to 4.4pf 13.9- = 14.5NP 5.5OE 9.0FG
Terrence was a popular choice on the thread about players who “didn’t pan out”. Often we make up our minds about players from first impressions: Terrence was a pretty good player by the time he was a senior. He just never became a good offensive player, which is what the fans focus on. I remember as a physically strong guy who played good defense and rebounded well. But we wanted a little bit more form our power forward. His stats basically improved across the board in his four years here, except for his free throw shooting.

Rakeem Christmas +9.5
As a freshman:
11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG
As a senior:
34.3m 21.6p 10.6r 1.8a 1.1s 2.9b = 36.7+ 6.2mfg 2.1mft 2.9to 3.9pf = 15.1- = 21.6NP 12.0OE 9.6FG
Rakeem was always a valuable player. His interior defense, platooning with Baye Keita, was a key to the 2013 Final Four run. But, as big men tend to do, the reduced his fouls as his career went along. And he also developed a productive inside scoring game, the last we have had.

Rony Seikaly +9.1
As a freshman:
25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG
As a senior:
31.0m 21.0p 12.4r 0.8a 0.8s 3.1b 38.1+ 6.2mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 3.9pf 17.0- = 21.1NP 11.1OE 10.0FG
A lot of people remember Rony as being awful when he first showed up here but he wasn’t. Like all our young big men he fouled too much but he was productive. He became a much better scoring threat as his career progressed and a better rebounder.

Lazarus Sims +9.0
As a freshman:
7.4m 5.7p 3.0r 6.2a 2.4s 0.0b +17.3 4.6mfg 1.6mft 5.9to 2.4pf -14.5 = 2.8NP -0.5OE 3.3FG
As a senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG
Sims was never a statistically prolific player. He was never a great scorer: he needed to be surrounded by players who were. But he was a big, strong guard at the top of the zone. He greatly improved his passing, although he still had more turnovers than people remember. He was a turnover machine as a freshman and considerably improved but still had the same number as Scoop Jardine did as a senior. His numbers are very close to Michael Carter-Williams this year, (MCW’s assist to turnover ratio was 8.3/3.9), except he wasn’t a scorer. He was willing to take chances to pass for baskets but not to shoot for them.

Etan Thomas +8.9
As a freshman:
16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG
As a senior:
32.4m 16.8p 11.4r 0.7a 0.9s 4.6b +34.4 4.2mfg 2.0mft 2.5to 3.9pf -12.6 = 21.8NP 10.6OE 11.2FG
As with Rony Seikaly, people remember him as a being terrible when he first showed up but he wasn’t. He never became a big-time scorer because he lacked a jump shot but he was a good inside guy and improved his rebounding and free-throw shooting while cutting down on the fouls. He was also one of the best shot blockers we’ve had, using his left hand so he wouldn’t have to reach across most player’s bodies to get to the ball.

Conrad McRae +8.5
As a freshman:
9.3m 8.4p 8.6r 1.1a 1.1s 4.3b +23.5 2.4mfg 2.4mft 0.5to 7.6pf -12.9 = 10.6NP 3.6OE 7.0FG
As a senior:
30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG
People often talk about Conrad as if he were some kind of “flop”. Again, I think they confuse big scoring and quality play and tend to remember him more form the first time we saw him. He put up some serious numbers as a senior, although he probably could rebounded a bit better. I would love to have had him this year. Like all big men he had to cut down on the fouls and became a better scorer over his career. Surprisingly he had more turnovers but has a better scorer, he saw more of the ball on offense. He missed more shots for the same reason. He was a great shot-blocker but his blocks went down slightly through his career as he became more selective and a better overall defender.

Adrian Autry +8.4
As a freshman:
33.2m 11.7p 3.1r 6.4a 2.4s 0.2b +23.8 6.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 4.0pf -15.4 = 8.4NP 4.6OE 3.8FG
As a senior:
35.7m 18.7p 5.4r 6.8a 1.8s 0.4b +33.1 8.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 2.9pf -16.3 = 16.8NP 9.6OE 7.2FG
Adrian came here as a highly rated point guard and was a big disappointment his first two years, ((8.4NP and 8.9NP). But then he became one of the best we’ve had, (14.6NP and 16.8NP). He was another big guard at the top of the zone. He wasn’t quite the passer MCW was but a better shooter, as Missouri found out in his final game, when he scored all 30 of his points after halftime in an overtime loss. He vastly improved his scoring in his career here but also became a strong rebounder from the guard position, (MCW was 5.5 per 40 minutes this year: Autry was 2 inches shorter and almost matched that as a senior. He missed more shots but was taking more as well. And he reduced his fouls, always the sign of a maturing player.

Rick Jackson +7.4
As a freshman:
12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG
As a senior:
35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG
Rick didn’t have one stat where he improved sharply: he got better across the board. He did block fewer shots, probably because he was played more at forward as a senior. And, of course, he committed fewer fouls, although that was not as big a problem when he was a freshman as it was for other SU big men, perhaps because JB was using more and more zone by then.

Dave Johnson +7.4
As a freshman:
14.6m 11.5p 5.5r 2.7a 1.3s 0.3b 21.3+ 5.2mfg 2.4mft 1.8to 5.2pf 14.6- = 6.7NP 3.9OE 2.8FG
As a senior:
37.9m 20.9p 7.4r 1.6a 1.6s 0.4b +31.9 9.7mfg 2.0mft 2.9to 3.2pf -17.8 = 14.1NP 9.2OE 4.9FG
Always an explosive athlete, Johnson found an outside shot as a junior, (and had an even better year than he did as a senior, (18.3NP). He also learned to use his strength and jumping ability to become a force on the boards. He missed a lot more shots, again because he was taking a lot more but, again, he reduced his fouls significantly. Jim Boeheim said DJ did the best dunk he’s ever seen: a 360 form the foul line to terminate one practice session, (nobody could follow that).
I never heard the detail on DJs dunk? A 360 from the foul line seems impossible
 
Sure. I wasn’t comparing Benny Williams to Derrick Coleman or Louie Orr. I was suggesting pointing to a player in 1941 as to how to handle Coleman in 1987 would be ridiculous.

46 years is a long time.

I don't disagree. I was just adding to your point by saying that Louie was hardly an example of a player who performed poorly his first year just because he didn't start any games.
 
I never heard the detail on DJs dunk? A 360 from the foul line seems impossible
It is. The dunk was from a couple steps inside the line. Over time, lore has eclipsed reality with that dunk. How do I know? Dave Siock told me
 
Bobby Lazor, ASU?
From the best class he ever brought in , DC, and Stevie stayed, Keith Hughes, Earl Duncan, and Matt Roe left. Had they stayed to play with Billy Owens, Ellis, and Dave Johnson JB probably gets a national championship 14 or 15 years sooner.
 
I did this a couple of years ago. Currently, Benny Williams is averaging +2.7NP per 40 minutes:

The top ten improvements from freshman to senior:

Demetris Nichols + 12.2
As a freshman:
14.2m 9.9p 5.3r 1.4a 1.4s 1.5b 19.5+ 7.2mfg 0.9mft 1.4to 4.3pf 13.8- = 5.7NP 1.8OE 3.9FG
As a senior:
34.8m 21.8p 6.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.2b 32.6+ 9.1mfg 0.7mft 2.5to 2.4pf 14.7- = 17.9NP 12.0OE 5.9FG
A tremendous improvement in scoring: he made shots, (he missed a few more, too but he was taking more because so many of them were going in). He improved his rebounding, (which was pretty good for a jump-shooter), and made fewer fouls.

Herman Harried + 12.1
As a freshman:
6.6m 7.4p 8.9r 0.8a 0.5s 0.3b 17.9+ 6.8mfg 3.2mft 3.2to 5.0pf 18.2- = -0.3NP -2.6OE 2.3FG
As a senior:
10.8m 12.0p 10.4r 1.5a 1.7s 0.2b 25.8+ 4.3mfg 2.3 mft 2.3to 5.1pf 14.0- = 11.8NP 5.5OE 6.3FG
Herm was a career reserve but that didn’t mean he didn’t improve during his career. He scored more while missing fewer shots, (they don’t always go together: look at Nichols), He rebounded better, had more assists and steals, cut down on the turnovers and even missed fewer free throws.

Terrence Roberts +10.4
As a freshman:
7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG
As a senior:
28.8m 12.4p 11.1r 1.7a 1.3s 1.9b 28.4+ 4.1mfg 2.8mft 2.6to 4.4pf 13.9- = 14.5NP 5.5OE 9.0FG
Terrence was a popular choice on the thread about players who “didn’t pan out”. Often we make up our minds about players from first impressions: Terrence was a pretty good player by the time he was a senior. He just never became a good offensive player, which is what the fans focus on. I remember as a physically strong guy who played good defense and rebounded well. But we wanted a little bit more form our power forward. His stats basically improved across the board in his four years here, except for his free throw shooting.

Rakeem Christmas +9.5
As a freshman:
11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG
As a senior:
34.3m 21.6p 10.6r 1.8a 1.1s 2.9b = 36.7+ 6.2mfg 2.1mft 2.9to 3.9pf = 15.1- = 21.6NP 12.0OE 9.6FG
Rakeem was always a valuable player. His interior defense, platooning with Baye Keita, was a key to the 2013 Final Four run. But, as big men tend to do, the reduced his fouls as his career went along. And he also developed a productive inside scoring game, the last we have had.

Rony Seikaly +9.1
As a freshman:
25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG
As a senior:
31.0m 21.0p 12.4r 0.8a 0.8s 3.1b 38.1+ 6.2mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 3.9pf 17.0- = 21.1NP 11.1OE 10.0FG
A lot of people remember Rony as being awful when he first showed up here but he wasn’t. Like all our young big men he fouled too much but he was productive. He became a much better scoring threat as his career progressed and a better rebounder.

Lazarus Sims +9.0
As a freshman:
7.4m 5.7p 3.0r 6.2a 2.4s 0.0b +17.3 4.6mfg 1.6mft 5.9to 2.4pf -14.5 = 2.8NP -0.5OE 3.3FG
As a senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG
Sims was never a statistically prolific player. He was never a great scorer: he needed to be surrounded by players who were. But he was a big, strong guard at the top of the zone. He greatly improved his passing, although he still had more turnovers than people remember. He was a turnover machine as a freshman and considerably improved but still had the same number as Scoop Jardine did as a senior. His numbers are very close to Michael Carter-Williams this year, (MCW’s assist to turnover ratio was 8.3/3.9), except he wasn’t a scorer. He was willing to take chances to pass for baskets but not to shoot for them.

Etan Thomas +8.9
As a freshman:
16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG
As a senior:
32.4m 16.8p 11.4r 0.7a 0.9s 4.6b +34.4 4.2mfg 2.0mft 2.5to 3.9pf -12.6 = 21.8NP 10.6OE 11.2FG
As with Rony Seikaly, people remember him as a being terrible when he first showed up but he wasn’t. He never became a big-time scorer because he lacked a jump shot but he was a good inside guy and improved his rebounding and free-throw shooting while cutting down on the fouls. He was also one of the best shot blockers we’ve had, using his left hand so he wouldn’t have to reach across most player’s bodies to get to the ball.

Conrad McRae +8.5
As a freshman:
9.3m 8.4p 8.6r 1.1a 1.1s 4.3b +23.5 2.4mfg 2.4mft 0.5to 7.6pf -12.9 = 10.6NP 3.6OE 7.0FG
As a senior:
30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG
People often talk about Conrad as if he were some kind of “flop”. Again, I think they confuse big scoring and quality play and tend to remember him more form the first time we saw him. He put up some serious numbers as a senior, although he probably could rebounded a bit better. I would love to have had him this year. Like all big men he had to cut down on the fouls and became a better scorer over his career. Surprisingly he had more turnovers but has a better scorer, he saw more of the ball on offense. He missed more shots for the same reason. He was a great shot-blocker but his blocks went down slightly through his career as he became more selective and a better overall defender.

Adrian Autry +8.4
As a freshman:
33.2m 11.7p 3.1r 6.4a 2.4s 0.2b +23.8 6.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 4.0pf -15.4 = 8.4NP 4.6OE 3.8FG
As a senior:
35.7m 18.7p 5.4r 6.8a 1.8s 0.4b +33.1 8.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 2.9pf -16.3 = 16.8NP 9.6OE 7.2FG
Adrian came here as a highly rated point guard and was a big disappointment his first two years, ((8.4NP and 8.9NP). But then he became one of the best we’ve had, (14.6NP and 16.8NP). He was another big guard at the top of the zone. He wasn’t quite the passer MCW was but a better shooter, as Missouri found out in his final game, when he scored all 30 of his points after halftime in an overtime loss. He vastly improved his scoring in his career here but also became a strong rebounder from the guard position, (MCW was 5.5 per 40 minutes this year: Autry was 2 inches shorter and almost matched that as a senior. He missed more shots but was taking more as well. And he reduced his fouls, always the sign of a maturing player.

Rick Jackson +7.4
As a freshman:
12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG
As a senior:
35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG
Rick didn’t have one stat where he improved sharply: he got better across the board. He did block fewer shots, probably because he was played more at forward as a senior. And, of course, he committed fewer fouls, although that was not as big a problem when he was a freshman as it was for other SU big men, perhaps because JB was using more and more zone by then.

Dave Johnson +7.4
As a freshman:
14.6m 11.5p 5.5r 2.7a 1.3s 0.3b 21.3+ 5.2mfg 2.4mft 1.8to 5.2pf 14.6- = 6.7NP 3.9OE 2.8FG
As a senior:
37.9m 20.9p 7.4r 1.6a 1.6s 0.4b +31.9 9.7mfg 2.0mft 2.9to 3.2pf -17.8 = 14.1NP 9.2OE 4.9FG
Always an explosive athlete, Johnson found an outside shot as a junior, (and had an even better year than he did as a senior, (18.3NP). He also learned to use his strength and jumping ability to become a force on the boards. He missed a lot more shots, again because he was taking a lot more but, again, he reduced his fouls significantly. Jim Boeheim said DJ did the best dunk he’s ever seen: a 360 form the foul line to terminate one practice session, (nobody could follow that).
Your research and post are incredible.
 
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