Orangeman13
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I remember when that seemed like a real possibility. The ACC's recent extension of the GOR's put that fear to rest.
Big 12 to expand...or not
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Orangeman13
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The big 12 is on its deathbed. Adding these mid majors is merely life support.
The only question is who the ACC gets when the big 12 dissolves...
Any ideas?
The only question is who the ACC gets when the big 12 dissolves...
Any ideas?
All the Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII misinformation came from WVU internet trolls who are bitter at the ACC.
Those POS WVU fans want blood from the ACC for never picking them and so they have devoted their lives to spreading misinformation. They lost its over. If the Big XII expands without a TV extension its done when its GOR expires.
Those POS WVU fans want blood from the ACC for never picking them and so they have devoted their lives to spreading misinformation. They lost its over. If the Big XII expands without a TV extension its done when its GOR expires.
Hoo's That
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If (and notice that's a big "If") Texas decides to go the indie route, offer them the same deal as ND. Every time it's discussed, I get more hesitant to bring in Texas as a full member because they seem to get poor grades when it comes to "Plays well with others."
shantydaze
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This would still require the ACC to "play with" Texas and would only serve to increase its arrogance. Also, partial membership does not solve the LHN problem as it would lose all of its non-football programming.
If Texas went Indy the could stick all their games on LHN that didn't get picked for national TV.
Texas could play Rice/Houston/UTSA/Tulane and other TX schools and keep their local games for fans.
I just don't see Texas going Indy as they would have no FB conference title.
If the Big XII blew up Texas would have to pick between the Big Ten, SEC, PAC-12, and ACC.
Texas could play Rice/Houston/UTSA/Tulane and other TX schools and keep their local games for fans.
I just don't see Texas going Indy as they would have no FB conference title.
If the Big XII blew up Texas would have to pick between the Big Ten, SEC, PAC-12, and ACC.
HtownOrange
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Alsacs is right, UT going indy is likely a non-starter. They would only control 6-7 games (the home games as away games belong to the other team/conference0. They would have very little content, anecdote: I know several Bevo fans and they complain that they have seen everything on the LHN repeatedly. Besides, ESPN says they are not making money off the network so the LHN may not be around after this contract.
UT knows they are not a national school like ND, no school is. Unless the playoffs are expanded, UT would have little hope of getting in the playoffs without a conference. UT also like being in a conference as evidenced by many decades in conferences. (Compare/contrast that with the old northeast indies!)
I am not as worried as some that the ACC would be pushed around by UT because UT would be making a move of their choice and I believe they would understand the dynamics and would know they are player but not the boss in any conference. I think this is why they want the Big 12 to survive, they can still be the boss.
It is nice to watch the drama as an outsider rather than worry about your team for several years...if only Jake had the foresight to join WHEN FSU joined!
UT knows they are not a national school like ND, no school is. Unless the playoffs are expanded, UT would have little hope of getting in the playoffs without a conference. UT also like being in a conference as evidenced by many decades in conferences. (Compare/contrast that with the old northeast indies!)
I am not as worried as some that the ACC would be pushed around by UT because UT would be making a move of their choice and I believe they would understand the dynamics and would know they are player but not the boss in any conference. I think this is why they want the Big 12 to survive, they can still be the boss.
It is nice to watch the drama as an outsider rather than worry about your team for several years...if only Jake had the foresight to join WHEN FSU joined!
In fairness, we would have furious with that decision at that time.
Texas wants no expansion in the Big XII but they want that Houston campus. That is why I see Houston as a Texas compromise and Oklahoma's choice of Cincinnati being the start of Big XII expansion.
If the conference goes to 14 then BYU/Colorado State/UConn/UCF/Memphis being the schools for discussed for 14.
The Big XII really screwed up in 2010 when they took WVU over Louisville. The ACC and Big Ten were never taking WVU. Leaving Louisville as a Maryland replacement really screwed the Big XII ans helped the ACC avoid taking UConn.
If the conference goes to 14 then BYU/Colorado State/UConn/UCF/Memphis being the schools for discussed for 14.
The Big XII really screwed up in 2010 when they took WVU over Louisville. The ACC and Big Ten were never taking WVU. Leaving Louisville as a Maryland replacement really screwed the Big XII ans helped the ACC avoid taking UConn.
atom58
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I suppose if they had an ND type deal, their BB and non-revenue (Olympic) sports would stay on the LHN which is under contract with ESPN until 2031. Therefore they would not get a payment from the ACC network as ND will. I have read somewhere that ESPN has lost $48 million on the LHN so you wonder if there is any cancellation clause before that year.
atom58
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The information here seems sound to me and the overall discussion is more civil and sane than you see on some other sites, e.g. the Boneyard. It seems to me that the best long term solution for Texas and OU is to keep the Big 12 alive (for geographic fit reasons mainly) and expanding to 12 to 14 teams and having two divisions makes a CCG also a reasonable thing to have. Boren will have gotten two of the three things he wanted. Texas wants to hang onto the LHN and the $15 million it gives them each year but it will not be renewed by ESPN IMO. Better for them to call it a Big 12 network prior to the cancellation and broaden it to include the other teams.
HtownOrange
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Your logic is sound and probably correct. The issue is whether UT can see beyond UT and be a team player. Before UNL left, the Big 12 was set up to reward the powers more than the body bags. UT still acts as they deserve more than others. Whether UT comes to grip with the reality that every conference member deserves an equal share (you cannot have the elites without the dregs and a strong middle group) before they destroy the Big 12 or they learn it the hard way when they join one of the remaining P5 conferences is really what it boils down to.
There is too much money to be made broadcasting live sports. If UT plays well with others (Big 12) and listens to their TV partners, they could very well save the Big 12 (with OU, of course). It will be interesting to see what the final result is.
orange79
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Big 12 Expansion: BYU, Houston, Cincinnati Reported As Possible Adds
Shocking that UT, OU are 'at odds'
Shocking that UT, OU are 'at odds'
HtownOrange
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Yeah, shocking. This is pretty much what has been said for two weeks(?), why a Cincy reporter and this reporter are just now getting the news is more shocking. I still don't believe BYU is that high on the other schools' lists, they simply don't add more than the others and they are in the wrong direction for coverage (Eastern time zone exposure).
shantydaze
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BYU has a national following and has decent academics. Houston and Cincy's academics are below average. Cinci adds a new area of the country, albeit one dominated by Ohio State. Houston adds nothing in terms of market once (if) a conference network is established. Further, by adding another Texas team the conference becomes even more regional, one of the reasons the Texas state dominated SWC broke up.
If Texas is pushing for Houston, it almost seems like it wants the conference and/or to fail as Houston's addition will limit interest nationally and, thereby, limit viable markets and value of a conference network. If the country does not care enough about UT sports to make the LHN network profitable, why would adding another Texas school change that?
HtownOrange
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BYU has much less of a national following than many project. U of Houston has been building up its academic credentials and is expanding with the State blessing and $$$. Regarding the market U of H brings: Step outside of television and think UT wants to open a campus in Houston because that is the primary motivation behind UT wanting Houston, the market UT is really after. The city will block the campus if UT does not back U of H to the Big 12 (or another P5). A campus in Houston is worth far more than what UT will gain by adding a different team-think big university $$$ > big university sports $. The first could be measured in $100s of MM annually while the second may net UT a few $MM annually.
Cincy is in Ohio and yes, it is dominated by tOSU. Again, not a problem because OU is the backer. Texas and OU will get what they want before the remaining Big 12 teams get leftovers.
As to BYU, Texas made plain several years ago that they prefer to not go west and want eastern time zone broadcasts. Western games that start at 7:00 PCT, start at 10:00 eastern and nobody watches them on the east coast. OU prefers the eastern conferences but will go to the Pac if the alternative is a UT-less Big 12 or if the money makes them a second class citizen in CFBdom.
As for UT pushing for Houston to cause the conference to fail, that may happen, but is not really a motivator. UT prefers being in conferences as evidenced by the fact they have been in conferences for many decades and have rejected going indy. UT has no worries as any of the remaining conferences will open the door for UT to join if the Big 12 goes belly up (or is destroyed by UT and OU leaving) and UT would still have its Houston campus.
I fully agree that adding Houston will not help the LHN or the Big 12 TV deals in a significant manner. This fact may be why the Big 12 takes 4 teams: Appease the two gorillas and get two that everyone else can put up with.
HtownOrange
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That picture may be enough to convince the Big12 to NOT invite BYU!
CuseLegacy
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shantydaze
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Like with the LHN, UT's push to add Houston does not benefit the conference or any other school other than UT. As I want the XII to be the weakest and least stable of the P5 conferences, UT forcing it to make a poor expansion choices is fine with me.
While I agree UT will be able to chose which conference it wants to join if XII implodes, if they look to the $EC or B1G, it will be on the conference's term, not on UT's. Whether the ACC would capitulate for UT (which I hope it would 't), remains to be seen.
Capt. Tuttle
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Hope the conference tells them to shove and gives BYU the red carpet treatment.
If it's only two then I just can't see UConn being one of two. They really needed it to be expansion by 4.
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