Boeheim on Cowherd's show re: Lebron | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Boeheim on Cowherd's show re: Lebron

I loved MJ too, mainly because I was 8 years old the first time I saw him, and kids develop heroes at that stage. (Though he was no Bernard King)

That said, I'll take Lebron and don't think it's as hard a decision as others make it out to be. He is far more versatile, and constantly improving. The person who said they wanted MJ with the championship on the line must not have had TV access for the last few months and/or realize that LBJ at his age has surpassed MJ in accomplishments.

And, as alluded to earlier in this thread, I do in fact think that (some, some) people on here are afraid to pull the trigger and anoint him b/c of the Carmelo factor.
 
PoppyHart said:
I loved MJ too, mainly because I was 8 years old the first time I saw him, and kids develop heroes at that stage. (Though he was no Bernard King)

That said, I'll take Lebron and don't think it's as hard a decision as others make it out to be. He is far more versatile, and constantly improving. The person who said they wanted MJ with the championship on the line must not have had TV access for the last few months and/or realize that LBJ at his age has surpassed MJ in accomplishments.

And, as alluded to earlier in this thread, I do in fact think that (some, some) people on here are afraid to pull the trigger and anoint him b/c of the Carmelo factor.
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That's a ballsy post Poppy. And I love the Bernard King reference. It sucks that guys who have careers end like his are pretty much forgotten.

44cuse
 
he needs the rings. in basketball thats how the super duper stars are judged. if hes got 6 or more rings when he retires then we can talk. thats why kobe wants #6 so bad, s0 he can at least be mentioned in the same breath as MJ.

remember, jordan won 3 in a row, retired for a year and a half, came back and won 3 more in a row including a record 72 win season. is there any doubt he would have won 8 in a row if he didnt retire the first time? none. i bet he still thinks about that too when any of these comparisons come up, being the competitor that he is. "man i cant believe i retired to play baseball, i could have won 8 in a row and none of these guys would come close to touching that"

MJ is still the goat.
 
PoppyHart said:
I loved MJ too, mainly because I was 8 years old the first time I saw him, and kids develop heroes at that stage. (Though he was no Bernard King)

That said, I'll take Lebron and don't think it's as hard a decision as others make it out to be. He is far more versatile, and constantly improving. The person who said they wanted MJ with the championship on the line must not have had TV access for the last few months and/or realize that LBJ at his age has surpassed MJ in accomplishments.

And, as alluded to earlier in this thread, I do in fact think that (some, some) people on here are afraid to pull the trigger and anoint him b/c of the Carmelo factor.
Expand...

Then you must not have had TV access for that decade called the 90s
 
CorduroyG said:
Then you must not have had TV access for that decade called the 90s
Expand...

So you're saying that Lebron at 27 has accomplished less at 27 than MJ, or that you don't understand how "and/or" statements work. Which is it?
 
shermstheman said:
Jordan had that killer instinct. He willed his team to victory. LeBron does not seem to have that as much- he's more of a team mate who can lead than a leader. I now believe LeBron has more physical gifts. If he wanted to, he could out number Jordan in any area- rebounds, points, shooting percentage, assists. Jordan had the nasty in him. LeBron not so much. Championship on the line with one play to go- I want MJ. But in all other aspects (which are not as important) I want LeBron.
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I rarely say win or lose, but give me the all star with the aggressive killer instinct over the stat stuffing, extremely athletic, IQ types. Just my preference.

This is a interesting topic though.
Is it 100% right when you look at the Jordan's, Kareem's, Dr J's, Wilt's, Magic Johnsons and Larry Birds the best in the game they were aggressive and not the silent IQ types on offense? Who would be the exceptions?

I guess one can say Magic Johnson maybe. The guy averaged between 10.5 and 13 assists for 9 straight seasons while only scoring 19 ppg.
 
PoppyHart said:
So you're saying that Lebron at 27 has accomplished less at 27 than MJ, or that you don't understand how "and/or" statements work. Which is it?
Expand...

lebron at 27: 9 nba seasons, 1 title
jordan at 27: 7 nba seasons, 1 title
 
PoppyHart said:
I must have missed the part when MJ won at 27. Tell me how how it went.
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basket-ball reference listed his as 27 for the 90-91 season

he turned 28 during that season, not sure how that works, maybe they base it on how old you are when that season starts.

anyway, since lebron went to the league right out of hs and mj went to college for 3 years its not really fair to compare them based on age. comparing them based on nba seasons is more accurate. so lebron just finished his 9th nba season, so lets compare him to MJ after 9 nba seasons


Lebron:3X MVP, 1X NBA Champ, 1X NBA Finals MVP, 8X All-Star, Rookie of the Year, 4X Defensive First Team, 1X NBA Scoring Champion, 4X All Defensive 1st team

MJ after 9 nba seasons: 3X MVP, 3X NBA champ, 3X Finals MVP, 9X All Star, Rookie of the Year, 7X Defensive First Team, 7X NBA Scoring Champion, 7X All defensive 1st team, 1X Defensive player of the year

Yea im taking MJ
 
was just checking out some of jordan's stats, he averaged 41ppg in the '93 finals. 41!!!! lol

41ppg, 8.5rpg, 6.3apg. thats just silly.
 
CorduroyG said:
basket-ball reference listed his as 27 for the 90-91 season

he turned 28 during that season, not sure how that works, maybe they base it on how old you are when that season starts.

anyway, since lebron went to the league right out of hs and mj went to college for 3 years its not really fair to compare them based on age. comparing them based on nba seasons is more accurate. so lebron just finished his 9th nba season, so lets compare him to MJ after 9 nba seasons


Lebron:3X MVP, 1X NBA Champ, 1X NBA Finals MVP, 8X All-Star, Rookie of the Year, 4X Defensive First Team, 1X NBA Scoring Champion, 4X All Defensive 1st team

MJ after 9 nba seasons: 3X MVP, 3X NBA champ, 3X Finals MVP, 9X All Star, Rookie of the Year, 7X Defensive First Team, 7X NBA Scoring Champion, 7X All defensive 1st team, 1X Defensive player of the year

Yea im taking MJ
Expand...

Or you could look at it from the perspective of where they were when they were 27, and try to project where one (Lebron) would end up.

At 27, it would look like this:
Championships: LBJ 1 MJ 0
Finals Appearances: LBJ 3 MJ 0
Finals MVP: LBJ 1 MJ 0
MVPs: LBJ 3 MJ 2
Top 5 MVPs: LBJ 7 MJ 5
ROY: 1 each
All Defense: LBJ 4 MJ 3
Scoring Champ: LBJ 1 MJ 4

Yea, I think I'm sticking with Lebron.
 
Jordan dealt with Bird's Celtics, the Bad Boys, and Magic's Lakers. Lebron wouldn't have won against them either.

Lebron's legacy will always be tainted by teaming up with Wade instead of kicking his ass. MJ, Bird, Magic... would never have played together. They knew it wasn't just winning but taking it from the other legend. Lebron is awesome. But until this year, he has been heavily criticized for playoff performances. He lost to the Mavs last year. The Mavs.

Lebron is Karl Malone with guard skills. He's unreal. He may end up the best ever. But he ain't yet. And I think other factors play into it. MJ wanted to win more than breathe. Same with Kobe. Bird. Magic. If Lebron is able to sustain that attitude, he could be the best ever. But he's not now. And it's not close.

Beating the Thunder in a lock out season that favors the young teams doesn't do it for me. Beating Kobe and the Lakers def. would.

Lebron is a supreme talent. MJ changed the sport.
 
The General said:
Jordan dealt with Bird's Celtics, the Bad Boys, and Magic's Lakers. Lebron wouldn't have won against them either.

Lebron's legacy will always be tainted by teaming up with Wade instead of kicking his ass. MJ, Bird, Magic... would never have played together. They knew it wasn't just winning but taking it from the other legend. Lebron is awesome. But until this year, he has been heavily criticized for playoff performances. He lost to the Mavs last year. The Mavs.

Lebron is Karl Malone with guard skills. He's unreal. He may end up the best ever. But he ain't yet. And I think other factors play into it. MJ wanted to win more than breathe. Same with Kobe. Bird. Magic. If Lebron is able to sustain that attitude, he could be the best ever. But he's not now. And it's not close.

Beating the Thunder in a lock out season that favors the young teams doesn't do it for me. Beating Kobe and the Lakers def. would.

Lebron is a supreme talent. MJ changed the sport.
Expand...

L. O. L.
 
The General said:
Jordan dealt with Bird's Celtics, the Bad Boys, and Magic's Lakers. Lebron wouldn't have won against them either.

Lebron's legacy will always be tainted by teaming up with Wade instead of kicking his ass. MJ, Bird, Magic... would never have played together. They knew it wasn't just winning but taking it from the other legend. Lebron is awesome. But until this year, he has been heavily criticized for playoff performances. He lost to the Mavs last year. The Mavs.

Lebron is Karl Malone with guard skills. He's unreal. He may end up the best ever. But he ain't yet. And I think other factors play into it. MJ wanted to win more than breathe. Same with Kobe. Bird. Magic. If Lebron is able to sustain that attitude, he could be the best ever. But he's not now. And it's not close.

Beating the Thunder in a lock out season that favors the young teams doesn't do it for me. Beating Kobe and the Lakers def. would.

Lebron is a supreme talent. MJ changed the sport.
Expand...

Both great talents. But I'd respectfully disagree on your last point. While MJ was a very unique talent, it was Bird and Magic who changed basketball as we know it today.
 
remember, jordan won 3 in a row, retired for a year and a half, came back and won 3 more in a row including a record 72 win season. is there any doubt he would have won 8 in a row if he didnt retire the first time? none. i bet he still thinks about that too when any of these comparisons come up, being the competitor that he is. "man i cant believe i retired to play baseball, i could have won 8 in a row and none of these guys would come close to touching that
Expand...

Then he shouldn't have been secretly suspended for 18 months by Stern...


The only reason I'd have not to think Jordan would have won 8 in a row is that it's possible he would've burned out. I'm not saying he would've necessarily, but that's the only reason I'd say it wouldn't have happened.

It's crazy looking at some of his playoff stats. 89; 35/7/8 over 17 games. 90; 37/7/7 over 16 games.

I can't find the post in here now, but Kobe Byrant is not the second best offensive player of all time.
 
Knicks411 said:
Then he shouldn't have been secretly suspended for 18 months by Stern...


The only reason I'd have not to think Jordan would have won 8 in a row is that it's possible he would've burned out. I'm not saying he would've necessarily, but that's the only reason I'd say it wouldn't have happened.

It's crazy looking at some of his playoff stats. 89; 35/7/8 over 17 games. 90; 37/7/7 over 16 games.

I can't find the post in here now, but Kobe Byrant is not the second best offensive player of all time.
Expand...
Actually I said that Kobe might be the second best offensive player of all time. The reason I said that is that he has been able to do what he has for 16 seasons. People say that he is slowing down but last season he still averaged 28 ppg. Not bad for a guy who is 34.

Again, it's crazy to compare LBJ to anyone. He can do things that MJ and Kobe would never be able to do.
 
Actually I said that Kobe might be the second best offensive player of all time. The reason I said that is that he has been able to do what he has for 16 seasons. People say that he is slowing down but last season he still averaged 28 ppg. Not bad for a guy who is 34.
Expand...

Sorry, couldn't find the post before I hit send.

Kobe's very impressive, no question. I think i mentioned this before; he averaged like 38 MPG this year. At his age and with the compressed schedule that's insane. (Both in the sense that it was probably insane to play him that many minutes and it's insane that he was able to play at such a high level while shouldering such a load).

But look at a guy like Kareem. Played till he was 40 and was still a great offensive player. Steve Nash is still going strong in his late 30's. Karl Malone. Kobe is probably going to finish at least 3rd all time in points, which is pretty damn impressive.
 
orangefan13 said:
I rarely say win or lose, but give me the all star with the aggressive killer instinct over the stat stuffing, extremely athletic, IQ types. Just my preference.

This is a interesting topic though.
Is it 100% right when you look at the Jordan's, Kareem's, Dr J's, Wilt's, Magic Johnsons and Larry Birds the best in the game they were aggressive and not the silent IQ types on offense? Who would be the exceptions?

I guess one can say Magic Johnson maybe. The guy averaged between 10.5 and 13 assists for 9 straight seasons while only scoring 19 ppg.
Expand...

Just curious...how many guys have averaged more PPG than Lebron in their careers? How is he a silent IQ type on offense?

Spoiler alert:

All Time Leaders: Points Per Game
Player G FG FT PTS PPG
1. Michael Jordan 1,072 12,192 7,327 32,292 30.1
1. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 12,681 6,057 31,419 30.1
3. LeBron James 689 6,794 4,540 19,045 27.6
 
This is a silly debate. There is no comparison between Jordan and LeBron. I really cant see a single rational argument for why Jordan is a better player when LeBron averages about 2 points fewer a game but is vastly superior at every other aspect.

People compare number of championships which is an irrelevant team statistic. Neither player won until they got a good team around them. The most impressive season either player had did not involve a championship. LeBron taking a team of back-up caliber players to a championship game was more impressive than anything Jordan ever did, and more impressive than his championship season this year.

Jordan missed the playoffs with far more talent around him than LeBron ever had in Cleveland.

When Jordan left the Bulls to play baseball, their team fell from the best team in the NBA with him, to the third best team in the NBA without him (record wise). And they made the Eastern Conference finals. Losing Jordan didn't hurt them that much. When Cleveland lost LeBron, they went from the best team in basketball to the worst team in basketball (record wise). End of discussion.
 
General20 said:
This is a silly debate. There is no comparison between Jordan and LeBron. I really cant see a single rational argument for why Jordan is a better player when LeBron averages about 2 points fewer a game but is vastly superior at every other aspect.

People compare number of championships which is an irrelevant team statistic. Neither player won until they got a good team around them. The most impressive season either player had did not involve a championship. LeBron taking a team of back-up caliber players to a championship game was more impressive than anything Jordan ever did, and more impressive than his championship season this year.

Jordan missed the playoffs with far more talent around him than LeBron ever had in Cleveland.

When Jordan left the Bulls to play baseball, their team fell from the best team in the NBA with him, to the third best team in the NBA without him (record wise). And they made the Eastern Conference finals. Losing Jordan didn't hurt them that much. When Cleveland lost LeBron, they went from the best team in basketball to the worst team in basketball (record wise). End of discussion.
Expand...


DISLIKE! I dont even know where to begin, so im not even gonna start.
 
The General said:
Jordan dealt with Bird's Celtics, the Bad Boys, and Magic's Lakers. Lebron wouldn't have won against them either.

Lebron's legacy will always be tainted by teaming up with Wade instead of kicking his ass. MJ, Bird, Magic... would never have played together. They knew it wasn't just winning but taking it from the other legend. Lebron is awesome. But until this year, he has been heavily criticized for playoff performances. He lost to the Mavs last year. The Mavs.

Lebron is Karl Malone with guard skills. He's unreal. He may end up the best ever. But he ain't yet. And I think other factors play into it. MJ wanted to win more than breathe. Same with Kobe. Bird. Magic. If Lebron is able to sustain that attitude, he could be the best ever. But he's not now. And it's not close.

Beating the Thunder in a lock out season that favors the young teams doesn't do it for me. Beating Kobe and the Lakers def. would.

Lebron is a supreme talent. MJ changed the sport.
Expand...

Oh boy. Here we go again.

Cue the other 75 posts that refute this post.

44cuse
 
"30% Jordan, 30% Magic and 40% something we've never seen before. Thats why he scares people. We never thought we would ever question Jordan as the best basketball player." - Cowherd
 
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