Boeheim on Cowherd's show re: Lebron

[Melancer46]

There may be a debate someday, but right now, LeBron still is nowhere near MJ's resume at the same respective part of their careers.

 

[Knicks411]

There may be a debate someday, but right now, LeBron still is nowhere near MJ's resume at the same respective part of their careers.

Wasn't this addressed upthread? Jordan won his first title a little after 28, Lebron won at 27. They were both the age 27 season, if you want to look at it that way. Lebron has won a title, 3 MVP's, and been first team all league 6 times. At that point, Jordan had 1 title, 2 MVPs, and 5 first team all leagues.

Jordan being the best ever is more based on what he did after age 27 or 28 than what he did prior to that. Though it goes without saying he was awesome prior to that as well.

 

[orangefan13]

Lebron is a supreme talent. MJ changed the sport.

Spot on. Michael Jordan was enjoyed by just about everyone. He was just so poetic and artistic on the court.
He is maybe the most likeable all star of any sport of all time. Especially after tiger woods demise.

All stats aside Lebron isn't there yet. Maybe with a few more rings.
Lots of people (and me included) want the showstopper not just the athletic champ. And Lebron being self proclaimed the chosen one from day one makes that even more so with him then others.

 

[CorduroyG]

Wasn't this addressed upthread? Jordan won his first title a little after 28, Lebron won at 27. They were both the age 27 season, if you want to look at it that way. Lebron has won a title, 3 MVP's, and been first team all league 6 times. At that point, Jordan had 1 title, 2 MVPs, and 5 first team all leagues.

Jordan being the best ever is more based on what he did after age 27 or 28 than what he did prior to that. Though it goes without saying he was awesome prior to that as well.

if you go by age its pretty even. if you go by same amount of years in the league jordan destroys lebron.

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Melancer46]

I don't understand where the idea that MJ is just a better scorer and LBJ is far superior to MJ at everything else.

At the same point in their careers (meaning 9 seasons each), LBJ has averaged 27.6, 7.2, 6.9, 1.7, and 0.8 (points per, rebounds per, assists per, steals per, blocks per) and shot 48.3% from the floor in the regular season.

MJ averaged 32.4, 6.3, 5.9, 2.7, and 1.0 on 51.6% shooting.

In the playoffs, LeBron got worse, while MJ got better, putting even more space between them. In the Finals, the gap gets even wider.

Accolades wise, MJ had 7 scoring titles in 9 years. Lebron has 1. MJ led the league in steals 3 times and was All-Defense 1st team 6 times. LeBron has never led the league in steals and was All-Defense 1st team 4 times. MJ was All-NBA 1st team 7 times. LeBron, 6. MJ won DPOY. LeBron hasn't. And we all know the story with the MVPs and the rings and everything.

It really isn't close at this point. LeBron is probably one of the top 10-15 players of All-Time at this point, but he's nowhere near MJ and most likely will never surpass him.

Edit: All these people saying LeBron is a far better rebounder, defender, passer, etc are nuts. MJ was a much better man to man defender than LeBron, and put up better defensive numbers too. And while LeBron is probably a better passer, it isn't by much. Rebounding is pretty close. The fact that MJ is a 6'6" SG that put up rebounding numbers like he did is amazing.

And then you mention the fact that MJ is like the only person in NBA history that was statistically just as efficient in the clutch as he was the rest of the game.

MJ is still the greatest player in NBA history, and likely will be for a long time.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, if you go with first 9 seasons instead of up to the same point in their careers, the story is a little different. I';m not sure which way is "better", but it's probably to look at years in the league. The reason I say that is because, using their "basketball age" on basketball reference, Lebron played int he NBA at age 19 and 20, whereas Jordan didn't play until age 21. So you are basically comparing their age 21-29 seasons for Jordan to 19-27 for Lebron. You would expect a guy to be a better player at age 28 and 29 than at age 19 and 20. If Lebron went to college for 2 years and jumped to the NBA at age 21 instead, would that make him a better player because he achieved all that stuff in 7 years instead of 9? I don't think so, because it wasn't like many of his achievements th at matter when it comes to being the GOAT happened at age 19 and 20. Or conversely, would Jordan be worse if he jumped from high school to the pros since then it took him 11 years to win 3 titles instead of 9? No one denies Michael Jordan at age 28 and 29 was a better player than Lebron at age 19 or 20. I don't think that should really matter when discussing who th ebetter player is.

In the playoffs, LeBron got worse, while MJ got better

Lebron's career playoff averages are 28.5/8.5/6.7. He averages more points, more rebounds, and his assists go down by .2 per game. I wouldn't really say the numbers get worse.

Accolades wise, MJ had 7 scoring titles in 9 years. Lebron has 1. MJ led the league in steals 3 times and was All-Defense 1st team 6 times. LeBron has never led the league in steals and was All-Defense 1st team 4 times. MJ was All-NBA 1st team 7 times. LeBron, 6. MJ won DPOY. LeBron hasn't. And we all know the story with the MVPs and the rings and everything.

This is what I mean with comparing the years; does anyone doubt Lebron is going to make first team all league at age 28 and 29? And make first team all Defense as well? That ties him with MJ on first team all Defense and puts him ahead on first team all league. (Also I'd say Lebron might be a better defender because he can defend more positions, but maybe not). And he'll likely add an MVP, if not 2. (And for what its worth, Lebron and Jordan each won 3 MVP's through 9 seasons in their career).

All that being said, I still think Jordan was a better player.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Lots of people (and me included) want the showstopper not just the athletic champ. And Lebron being self proclaimed the chosen one from day one makes that even more so with him then others.

LeBron did not proclaim himself the Chosen One. Sports Illustrated did with its cover story on him 10 years ago. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024928/index.htm

 

[44cuse]

It really isn't close at this point. LeBron is probably one of the top 10-15 players of All-Time at this point, but he's nowhere near MJ and most likely will never surpass him.

Just curious...who are the 9-14 players that are better than LeBron.

44cuse

 

[NineOneSeven]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/lebron-james-is-a-coward.26604/

18 page. Excuse me.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

LeBron did not proclaim himself the Chosen One. Sports Illustrated did with its cover story on him 10 years ago. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024928/index.htm

A lot of it is media hype. Here are a couple articles about who compares to MJ. One is from 2007. Funny thing is that for people old enough, MJ wasn't even gone from UNC and people were comparing Curtis Hunter to him. That's how crazy this argument gets. It's funny because I don't ever remember this coming up with older players. We knew Alcindor was the replacement for Russell and Chamberlain. We knew Walton was the replacement for KAJ. I don't remember even getting into discussion about the replacement for Walton since by then the NBA was changing.

http://suite101.com/article/the-next-michael-jordan-a34181

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=6668550

 

[realorange]

Spot on. Michael Jordan was enjoyed by just about everyone. He was just so poetic and artistic on the court.
He is maybe the most likeable all star of any sport of all time. Especially after tiger woods demise.

All stats aside Lebron isn't there yet. Maybe with a few more rings.
Lots of people (and me included) want the showstopper not just the athletic champ. And Lebron being self proclaimed the chosen one from day one makes that even more so with him then others.

I have to object to the above. There are many people like me who think that MJ is/was one of the more arrogant, self-centered sports figures of all time. Anyone who listened to his Hall of Fame speech and came away admiring him has serious problems. This on top of the carte blanche treatment from referrees(and going ballistic when he didn't), particularly in the last five years of his career, did not endear him to many of us. This takes nothing away from his talent, but as a human being he doesn't rate high on the list.

 

[The General]

Both great talents. But I'd respectfully disagree on your last point. While MJ was a very unique talent, it was Bird and Magic who changed basketball as we know it today.

Bird and Magic changed/saved the NBA. Every basketball player wanted to be like Mike. Wear his gear, play above the rim. An entire generation emulated him. The generation of Vince Carter, Mcgrady, Kobe and to Wade. Everyone wanted to be like Mike. Not Larry.

To paraphrase JB- when Lebron was in high school he said that if he doesn't get hurt he'll be one of the top 5 basketball players of all time. I couldn't believe he said it. He's certainly on his way.

 

[realorange]

Bird and Magic changed/saved the NBA. Every basketball player wanted to be like Mike. Wear his gear, play above the rim. An entire generation emulated him. The Vince Carter, Mcgrady, Kobe and to Wade. Everyone wanted to be like Mike. Not Larry.

My point was more changing the way the game was played. Nobody had seen players do the things that Magic did. And the competition between the two is still talked about today by those who saw them.
MJ likely got some of his ideas from the way both of them played the game.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I have to object to the above. There are many people like me who think that MJ is/was one of the more arrogant, self-centered sports figures of all time. Anyone who listened to his Hall of Fame speech and came away admiring him has serious problems. This on top of the carte blanche treatment from referrees(and going ballistic when he didn't), particularly in the last five years of his career, did not endear him to many of us. This takes nothing away from his talent, but as a human being he doesn't rate high on the list.

His treatment from the refs is what stopped me from watching the NBA. The pushoff in the playoffs was it for me. I came around in the last couple years with the rise of the Celts again, but I see a lot of the same with Lebron.

 

[44cuse]

I have to object to the above. There are many people like me who think that MJ is/was one of the more arrogant, self-centered sports figures of all time. Anyone who listened to his Hall of Fame speech and came away admiring him has serious problems. This on top of the carte blanche treatment from referrees(and going ballistic when he didn't), particularly in the last five years of his career, did not endear him to many of us. This takes nothing away from his talent, but as a human being he doesn't rate high on the list.

There are a lot of people who have participated in this discussion over the last 6 months that argue MJ's greatness against LeBron's perceived personality issues (ie: King James, and The Decision). Funny...those same folks never bring up the fact that, for the most part, MJ was pretty much an a$$hole with a smile on his face in Nike and Gatorade commercials.

Even funnier...many of those same folks find Kobe more likeable than LeBron. Says a lot our culture.

44cuse

 

[Col. Bleep]

There may be a debate someday, but right now, LeBron still is nowhere near MJ's resume at the same respective part of their careers.

There will be a big debate as soon as the national media pick up on Boeheim's comments.
This board is like ground zero.
Surprised it hasn't mushroomed by now.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

There will be a big debate as soon as the national media pick up on Boeheim's comments.
This board is like ground zero.
Surprised it hasn't mushroomed by now.

Seems like every time I put on ESPN this week someone is on there discussing MJ vs LeBron. It's not just JB talking about it.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

There will be a big debate as soon as the national media pick up on Boeheim's comments.
This board is like ground zero.
Surprised it hasn't mushroomed by now.

trending on yahoo now...JIM BOEHEIM!

 

[jekelish]

There will be a big debate as soon as the national media pick up on Boeheim's comments.
This board is like ground zero.
Surprised it hasn't mushroomed by now.

I saw they were discussing JB's comments on Around the Horn today but had the sound off. Anyone know what they said?

 

[Melancer46]

Just curious...who are the 9-14 players that are better than LeBron.

44cuse

I'd still have Magic, Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Kobe and Tim Duncan ahead of LeBron at the moment, but he will likely be one of the top 5 of All-Time by the time he hangs it up if I had to guess.

Probably a few others that I'm forgetting, but I'm exhausted and heading off to sleep.

 

[jekelish]

I'd still have Magic, Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Kobe and Tim Duncan ahead of LeBron at the moment, but he will likely be one of the top 5 of All-Time by the time he hangs it up if I had to guess.

Probably a few others that I'm forgetting, but I'm exhausted and heading off to sleep.

Did you mean to leave Michael out of that list, or was that just an oversight? Or is it just a given you'd rather have MJ?

 

[JLine]

Lebron is by far the best player in the league, just like Michael was when he had his reign. I dislike them both dominating everyone because it gets old, but respect their talents. Lebron is going to win for years to come. Best player in the league, anyone would love to jump on the Heat for the foreseeable future to give him a little help. It's Heat vs. Lakers/OKC, upcoming year. Easily.

 

[Melancer46]

Did you mean to leave Michael out of that list, or was that just an oversight? Or is it just a given you'd rather have MJ?

To clarify, I'm not saying which players I'd rather have. I'm saying which guys were better than LeBron (obviously LBJ has a ways to go in his career though).

And yeah, MJ was a given.

 

[longtimefan]

To clarify, I'm not saying which players I'd rather have. I'm saying which guys were better than LeBron (obviously LBJ has a ways to go in his career though).

And yeah, MJ was a given.

No Bill Russell? Or Oscar?

 

[Melancer46]

No Bill Russell? Or Oscar?

Eh, at this point, I think LBJ is probably better than Oscar was, but I'm too young to have grown up watching him play. And you can put Russell ahead of LBJ if you want. Definitely an argument for it. It's tough to compare a center to a Point Forward though.