Boeheim should do the right thing and step down now.

[NYCSUGrad]

It's sort of been an article of faith among insiders that JB never wanted a farewell tour. I think that he was genuinely optimistic that this team was going to be very, very good. After last year's Final Four, if he made it again with this group, he would have been going out on a very high note and could have made the hand off to Mike in a very good way.

But this year has gone all to hell, and it seems like they have taken their eye off the ball with the national team stuff these past few years, like he enjoys doing that more than doing his day job at SU.

Funny you should say that, Matt. Because I think it's Coach K of the national team who is really scared that JB might surpass him in the wins department. Look how he turned the reins over to his assistant head coach as soon as the team was doing fairly poorly at the start of the season, then made a miraculous recovery from his surgery and lost out on nary a win this season.

And then there's the whole Grayson Allen debacle. Any coach with an ounce of integrity would have suspended the little turd for more than one game after all the trip/flop machinations. Furthermore if it was most teams, the NCAA themselves would have suspended the IMO dirtiest player EVER in college ball. Worse than Laettner and any Georgetown thug.

But, you know, he plays for Dook not SU.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

He's gone full Jo Pa on this one complete with a Sandusky light incident

Steve, once again Mr Hak fails to recognize sarcasm. He LIKED your post!

 

[NYCSUGrad]

And when his own terms have included 2-3 postponed retirements, you've lost that right.

Huh? Citations please

 

[NYCSUGrad]

I remember hearing about Smith sticking around and meddling throughout Doherty's time. That's my biggest fear with post retirement for SU. JB needs to go when he's done and focus on his kids.

JB already said something about wanting to informally coach a woman's team, and not basketball. I think seeing his younger daughter have success on the basketball court, along with the strides Coach Q has made with the Orange women in a relatively short time has him wanting to see how the females work as a team, psychologically, but without the stress of a new full time job.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

This is my biggest concern now. The zone was designed to be effective when fewer teams had the personnel to attack it or shoot over it. But far more teams have guys that can di it easily.

At some point the 3 point line will be moved to NBA range, then the zone will be a little more effective for a while.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

What does Guthridge have to do with us? As you just said, Smith retired without warning and installed another ancient coach. My point about North Carolina was ONLY about the oft-repeated claim that some 'legendary' coach or player IS the program. But, those guys must eventually go, and years later, they aren't the program any more than 'Bobby Knight still IS Indiana.' The fact is, we HAVE to move on. The OP's premise is that we should move on NOW. That's the discussion. Not if we are going to suck like Georgetown. JB WILL be going this year or next. My point, and I assume the OP's point is that we are only going to be able to begin the next era when he JB leaves, and he's not doing us any good by staying another year. Another .500, lame duck season only puts off us knowing if we have a good coach in Hop by another year.

If you need to cite Indiana and a post-Knight program, I'll just cite UCONN. No one is underestimating the difficulty in replacing an iconic coach. But it's a fact of life that we DO have to do it. It's not a matter of kicking him out at age 50. He's done, for one reason or another, and replacing him is a necessity, not an option. If we are going to suffer from having Mike there as HC, it's better to know sooner than later, since JB cannot restore us in his one potential remaining season. Him 'lingering' is only killing our ability to get upper-level kids, and without better talent, we are going to flounder in-conference.

What does Gutheridge have to do with us? If not for Ped State/Sandusky and the similar but totally UNPROVEN scandal at SU, JB would have resigned probably around 2009 or so in favor of one Coach Bernie Fine. And Coach Hopkins probably would have gone to USC or somewhere as a HC to get some seasoning until Bernie was ready to retire.

All that is moot though and almost certainly a big reason why the NCAA holds a grudge against SU.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

I was saying the Same thing earlier in the year. That JB wouldn't want the spectacle and bother of a 'farewell tour season.' But seeing him relishing in the adulation of the '1000 win' game... now I dunno. He rully, rully seemed to enjoy that moment.

Gee, I couldn't imagine why.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

He is such a competitor that he is too stubborn to actually make adjustments and insist that his , once strategic and different zone is obsolete, needs to be dropped at times. The game has changed, he hasnt. Teams routinely shoot over the zone. Teams practice from 25 ft out. Look at what jay wright did in his adjustments at HT, playing a stud #8 seed and way bigger squad than he has. THATS coaching.

And yet Wright lost, correct? As a 1 seed in the round of 32?

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Don't think I'm "failing to understand" anything. We are just disagreeing on the parameters of the argument. JB IS leaving. So any horror stories about successors in other programs are absolutely moot. We will be replacing him at whatever point. This is about 2017-18. Period. Does JB coaching 17-18 help us in any way other than showing him the 'respect/loyalty' that many people believe he has earned. I don't think so. And even as a person who is not in the I Love The Infallible JAB Camp, I still used to say that he had earned the right to decide when he leaves. But that was before he (allegedly) decided to stop running practices. Before he (allegedly) stopped traveling outside of a comfort/convenience zone to get recruits. Before he (documented) started falling asleep in public. He may be as fiery and competitive on the court during games, but I don't believe he's 100% at other times, and that includes preparing the players we already have. We have, far too often this year, looked incompetent at a level that was not commensurate with our talent level, and prepared at a level below our standing.

This isn't a matter of "careful what you wish for." I don't even see how that expression applies. This isn't five years ago. This is now, a year away from him leaving. An inevitability. An immediate inevitability. THIS IS HAPPENING. It's just a matter of how slowly it's going to happen. I'm not yet seeing any arguments where there's an actual benefit to it happening slowly.

"Documented" started falling asleep in public? In what context please?

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Oh come on. I respect his longevity but lets face it. The dome and 30k recruits itself. 3 final 4s in 40+. 1 ship compliments of melo. The zone was a thing 20 years ago. The game is stretched these days. AAU and the evolution of the 12 year old changed the game 6-8 yrs ago. Kids are coached to take an open 25 footer instead of a contested 12 footer. Its layups/dunks or 25 footers. Thats what the AAU system has produced. But JB hasn't adjusted. Kennedy schooled him in the 2nd half today. We got killed from the 3 pt. Line all year as we were jumping around with our hands up in the air at 20 ft. Never played man. Add in the fact that 50% of his wins came against the gates and cornells of the world for 30 years. For 30 years, JB, finally left the dome in January for conference play at 17/18-0.

JB seldom plays man because he seldom has the personnel who can play it AND the 2-3 zone well, but every once in a while he does add it. And he uses the press strategically as well as variations on the zone like a 1-3-1.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Its 5 final fours you dolt and I don't like that we are 100 percent zone either, but at least know what you're talking about. We have been one of the 20 best defensive teams in the country for the past 6 years until this year. You really know nothing.

We aren't 100% zone. JB uses the press whenever he can to befuddle the opposition. It's a matter of can the kids execute it well.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Accurate facts? Ok, i missed on the F4 stats. But, i am pretty connected to what is going on with the program as of late. Hope as Greg Gard? Lol. Don't think so. Gard didn't sit on the bench as the CIW for 15-20 years.

Neither did Hop. That was Bernie Fine's role before Ped State etc.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Now you are into name calling.

"Now" means "Now". Unless you have so little command over the English language that you are unable to express yourself clearly.

I don't blame you for being embarrased and resorting to name calling. I doubt there are very many on here that don't understand the difference between "Now" and sometime during the off season (6 months)?

Heh.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Why does bad thread that is bad have 9 pages of comments?

JB can do whatever the fvck he wants to. He's earned that right.

Simply not accurate. From a fan perspective.. sure he has. He isn't an owner of a business but an employee of a large University. As a basketball coach, he is still a great coach and obviously a hall of famer. that said, the manner with which he has run his program the sanctions, player behaviors etc can certainly be called to question. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but the Chancellor may have had enough after the last round of investigations and sanctions. Take that along with a guy who really is just a bitter cranky old fart at this point and the program seems to be trending in the wrong direction. Without that final four run it really looks like it's trending in wrong directions you just look at wins and losses.

All that being said, JB has earned the right to leave his position and retire with class and dignity and he has been afforded that opportunity by the Chancellor, that he has certainly earned and it's being offered. Only question is will he do it, pretty sure he will but the leaks etc a month or so ago have me questioning this just a bit. He doesn't have the right to leave whenever he wants though, he just doesn't.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Funny you should say that, Matt. Because I think it's Coach K of the national team who is really scared that JB might surpass him in the wins department. Look how he turned the reins over to his assistant head coach as soon as the team was doing fairly poorly at the start of the season, then made a miraculous recovery from his surgery and lost out on nary a win this season.

And then there's the whole Grayson Allen debacle. Any coach with an ounce of integrity would have suspended the little turd for more than one game after all the trip/flop machinations. Furthermore if it was most teams, the NCAA themselves would have suspended the IMO dirtiest player EVER in college ball. Worse than Laettner and any Georgetown thug.

But, you know, he plays for Dook not SU.

What does Coach K, Grayson Alen and or Duke have anything to do with JB and his retirement.

 

[ForeverOrange]

JB seldom plays man because he seldom has the personnel who can play it AND the 2-3 zone well, but every once in a while he does add it. And he uses the press strategically as well as variations on the zone like a 1-3-1.

Up until this post, your counterpoints on other statements were good. This one, just not true.

This is a sad place for us to be in. Do we give our hall of fame coach the "corporate" treatment of the force out and "business not personal" or do we give him the "loyalty" treatment because of all that he has built and accomplished here? Right now, it's a lose lose situation. I am all for him getting his one more year, because as some have stated it won't matter. Reality is, we are headed towards a dip in the program. How long the dip takes won't be based on us forcing him out this year or letting him finish the next as he has requested, so why not respect his wishes and give him what he asked for? He has earned it. If I were Hopkins id probably prefer him leaving this year, because he would be coming in with lower expectations based on the way we have finished the season. But based on recruiting, another year of this probably won't hurt Hopkins in terms of timing either.

 

[Alsacs]

Funny you should say that, Matt. Because I think it's Coach K of the national team who is really scared that JB might surpass him in the wins department. Look how he turned the reins over to his assistant head coach as soon as the team was doing fairly poorly at the start of the season, then made a miraculous recovery from his surgery and lost out on nary a win this season.

And then there's the whole Grayson Allen debacle. Any coach with an ounce of integrity would have suspended the little turd for more than one game after all the trip/flop machinations. Furthermore if it was most teams, the NCAA themselves would have suspended the IMO dirtiest player EVER in college ball. Worse than Laettner and any Georgetown thug.

But, you know, he plays for Dook not SU.

Considering Coach K hasn't missed the tournament since 1995 and averages 25 wins a season this opinion isn't close to truth.

K asked Boeheim to join him becausbe he respects his defensive mind for the zone which you see a lot in International basketball. It had nothing to do with K fearing JB when he was already ahead of JB.

 

[Ish88888]

And yet Wright lost, correct? As a 1 seed in the round of 32?

He went down at least trying to make adjustments. Wisky was a bad matchup for them.

 

[Townie72]

He went down at least trying to make adjustments. Wisky was a bad matchup for them.

Just as Boeheim adjusts the zone to compensate for what a particular team is doing well at that moment.

 

[bpo57]

at least move his parking spot 50 yards away and in constant sun .

In Syracuse? That's not really punishment.

 

[two3zone]

And yet Wright lost, correct? As a 1 seed in the round of 32?

We lost in the NIT to a garbage team.

 

[two3zone]

Just as Boeheim adjusts the zone to compensate for what a particular team is doing well at that moment.

I'm not disagreeing with you as this was obviously true since we started playing the zone. This year seemed different, the adjustment just didn't seem to be there.

 

[Wallo]

His recruiting has fallen off a cliff the last 4-5 seasons. His inability to commit to a firm retirement date is killing the stability of this program. He can't manage a team effectively anymore. The JB of ten years ago would have won 2-3 more games at least with this team and gotten us into the tournament.

Better to leave a year too early than a year too late. He just doesn't have it anymore. And don't tell me that last year's final four run is proof to the contrary. The region absolutely parted like the Red Sea for us when Sparty got upset and it still took two miraculous comebacks in Chicago just to get to Houston. That was a miracle run last March and you'd be absolutely foolish to think that it indicates that the program is stable right now.

Time to say goodbye. It's over, Jim.

 

[tbonezone]

Just as Boeheim adjusts the zone to compensate for what a particular team is doing well at that moment.

like just once perhaps a box and one to put an actual hand in the face of a hot shooter ? instead we stand by and continually let these guys burn thru the hull like hot rivets before we ever try to pick them up.

 

[Eric15]

Bobby Bowden is universally considered one of the greatest college football coaches of all time. But at the end, it was just time. Things were getting stagnant based on the standards that Bowden himself established.

This is precisely the situation with Boeheim.