Boeheim, SU Basketball at a Crossroads

[realorange]

Your right we haven't had 3 double digit loss seasons in a row something that never happened before in JB's tenure. We aren't staring a 4th double digit season loss in a row in the mirror.

The program is smooth sailing. The players are developing and recruiting has been fine all day long.

What is Fake News?

Wasn't picking out any particular post.

 

[RF2044]

I despise the completely arbitrary since starting out 25-0 nonsense. Oh Lord
THAT 25-0 START HAPPENED. It was part of that season in the ACC.
You can't simply choose to only count what happened AFTER that start, as if some sort of magic switch got flipped someplace on the day we lost to freaking BC in the God-forsaken mismatched uniforms. :bang:

But yes - our overall results the past few seasons, have left something to be desired, especially compared to the level of the prior 5-6 seasons.
And while the Final Four run was amazing, it did somewhat mask the fact that even that season was somewhat underwhelming.

The next few months will be quite telling.
Either JB and crew can restock the cupboards with Tucker, etc, and/or some more quality Grad transfers, or we're looking at yet another .500 conference season & a bubbletastic overall record (at best),

Good lord--your indignation is unwarranted. Nobody said THAT 25-0 START DIDN'T HAPPEN. And it isn't an artificial benchmark. From that distinct point forward, we've lost an inordinate number of games. Fact.

I can choose the starting point wherever I'd like. What makes that an interesting data point is how incredible of a beginning to a season that was, before the bottom fell out that year and results became mediocre. That was a tipping point, no matter what people would like to pretend.

 

[orangecuse]

Good lord--your indignation is unwarranted. Nobody said THAT 25-0 START DIDN'T HAPPEN. And it isn't an artificial benchmark. From that distinct point forward, we've lost an inordinate number of games. Fact.

I can choose the starting point wherever I'd like. What makes that an interesting data point is how incredible of a beginning to a season that was, before the bottom fell out that year and results became mediocre. That was a tipping point, no matter what people would like to pretend.

Amen! So appreciative that a highly respected poster as yourself shares this sentiment.

 

[721Comstock]

Good lord--your indignation is unwarranted. Nobody said THAT 25-0 START DIDN'T HAPPEN. And it isn't an artificial benchmark. From that distinct point forward, we've lost an inordinate number of games. Fact.

I can choose the starting point wherever I'd like. What makes that an interesting data point is how incredible of a beginning to a season that was, before the bottom fell out that year and results became mediocre. That was a tipping point, no matter what people would like to pretend.

It is indeed an artificial benchmark.
NOBODY ever talks about a sports team's record, starting from some arbitrary point in the middle of the season. Ever.
You're choosing after a high point as the starting point, so by definition all that comes after that, will be less good.

You know, after an 18-0 start, then falling to the NY Giants in the Super Bowl, the New England Patriots lost a LOT more games in the next two seasons, as compared to that amazing run.
OMG Belichick must suck or something!!!!

What tipped? Our favor with The Basketball Gods, for wearing those atrocities?

 

[Alsacs]

It is indeed an artificial benchmark.
NOBODY ever talks about a sports team's record, starting from some arbitrary point in the middle of the season. Ever.
You're choosing after a high point as the starting point, so by definition all that comes after that, will be less good.

You know, after an 18-0 start, then falling to the NY Giants in the Super Bowl, the New England Patriots lost a LOT more games in the next two seasons, as compared to that amazing run.
OMG Belichick must suck or something!!!!

What tipped? Our favor with The Basketball Gods, for wearing those atrocities?

Tom Brady tore his ACL in the first quarter of the first game the next year or that team does really well. They went 11-5 with backup QB.

Then the next year Brady was still rusty off the ACL tear.

Not exactly the proper analogy.

We finished the 2013-14 season 3-6 after starting 25-0.

Then since then we have gone 18-13, 21-14, 19-15.

 

[Alsacs]

The last 3 years we have gone 58-42.

That means the cupcakes are why we are above .500.
ACC record 2014-15 9-9
ACC record 2015-16 10-11
ACC record 2016-17 10-9

Vs. P5 and BE 2014-15 1-4
Vs. P5 and BE 2015-16 2-3
Vs. P5 and BE 2016-17 0-5

We are 29-29 in our last 58 ACC games.
We are 3-12 in our last 15 P5/BE games.

That is textbook medicore.500 basketball.

 

[RF2044]

It is indeed an artificial benchmark.
NOBODY ever talks about a sports team's record, starting from some arbitrary point in the middle of the season. Ever.
You're choosing after a high point as the starting point, so by definition all that comes after that, will be less good.

You know, after an 18-0 start, then falling to the NY Giants in the Super Bowl, the New England Patriots lost a LOT more games in the next two seasons, as compared to that amazing run.
OMG Belichick must suck or something!!!!

What tipped? Our favor with The Basketball Gods, for wearing those atrocities?

That's your opinion, and doubtful one that many posters would share. As Alascs points out, that beginning was a line of demarcation on multiple levels.

Prior to the 25-0, things were humming along. We were coming off of a year where we'd been rated as high as #2, but hit the dreaded mid-season swoon before recovering and going on a run in both our FINAL Big East tournament and the NCAAs, advancing to the final four. We brought in an exciting recruiting class, and kicked off our affiliation in the ACC conference by starting out the next season 25-0, rising to #1 and winning several ball games in exciting fashion.

Then, the bottom fell out. We went something like 2-6 to end that season, losing in the first round of both the ACC tournament and the NCAA tournament.

The next season, we got off to our worst start under Boeheim, lost our top recruit to a torn ACL, and then got the hammer dropped on us by the NCAA with draconian, unprecedented sanctions.

The next year, we struggled through conference play after a strong start, and made the NCAA tournament only by an eyelash amidst a storm of national criticism. Loved the final four run, but it felt like an aberration masking some disconcerting things.

Last year's team got off to an even worse start than 14-15, got hot, but sputtered down the stretch. Worst road team I can ever remember.

And along the way, we've wracked up losses at an unprecedented pace, for four straight years.

So whether you choose to accept it or not, the 25-0 start was a noteworthy benchmark, with a lot of good things happening directly before that, and a disturbing downward trend occurring after that particular point on the program's timeline. I think we can also point to that particular tipping point where the program's second "golden era" under JB came to an abrupt, unexpected end.

 

[IthacaMatt]

terrible team. What good team did the '76 team beat. Jb says it was one of the worst teams we have had. I agree with him. What player did we have on that team that would start on last years team? Shack? As a frosh? Maybe but probably not. We won 20 games playing a schedule that let's be honest, was a joke.

Maybe you forget the years not so long before those mid-70s teams when we only won 9 games one season, playing against Niagara, Fordham, St. John's, the Bonnies, etc. THAT team sucked.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Reading the recruiting board it seems like we've been touch with and gone to watch a lot of players.

Yes, for a couple weeks now. Other teams do that all the time. Let's get Cam Reddish. Let's get Louie King, or Wright, or Quinerly, or Naz Reid. Let's get 2 of those 5 guys. That's a reasonable expectation. JB is the closer. Git 'er done.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Don't agree with this at all. Things aren't always as they seem.

The results speak for themselves. And the reports are out there. He was nowhere to be seen on the recruiting trail last year. Awfully strange for the guy who would be taking over the following year. Many of us commented on it over the past year on the recruiting board.

 

[SBU72]

I despise the completely arbitrary since starting out 25-0 nonsense. Oh Lord
THAT 25-0 START HAPPENED. It was part of that season in the ACC.
You can't simply choose to only count what happened AFTER that start, as if some sort of magic switch got flipped someplace on the day we lost to freaking BC in the God-forsaken mismatched uniforms. :bang:

But yes - our overall results the past few seasons, have left something to be desired, especially compared to the level of the prior 5-6 seasons.
And while the Final Four run was amazing, it did somewhat mask the fact that even that season was somewhat underwhelming.

The next few months will be quite telling.
Either JB and crew can restock the cupboards with Tucker, etc, and/or some more quality Grad transfers, or we're looking at yet another .500 conference season & a bubbletastic overall record (at best),

I have pointed out the same thing. It wasn't like the players changed or decided that they didn't like the coaching or something. Seems kind of stupid when you are undefeated to make changes that suddenly lead to a losing record. Then continues for the next 3 or 4 years.