Boeheim, SU Basketball at a Crossroads

[HOFCeluck]

UConn was awful in the 1980s but that's because the BIG EAST MAGIC took a little while to get to Storrs. Also they hired Jim Calhoun.

 

[dasher]

If the Big East was as big a factor in Syracuse's prominence as some would like to believe then I would have to think that Rutgers would've been relevant for even a minute. Or that St John's would've been able to stay relevant.

There is no question that the emergence of the Big East helped Syracuse University basketball a lot. You aren't questioning that, are you?

 

[HOFCeluck]

There is no question that the emergence of the Big East helped Syracuse University basketball a lot. You aren't questioning that, are you?

"As big a factor as some would like to believe."

No it was obviously a huge factor. But every once in a while you see someone try to use the rise of the Big East or the Dome as a way to discredit Boeheim. And that's BS.

 

[tbonezone]

i believe JB will even tell you (watch requiem) that the BE , ESPN and dome put us on the map.

 

[Alsacs]

UConn was awful in the 1980s but that's because the BIG EAST MAGIC took a little while to get to Storrs. Also they hired Jim Calhoun.

Every original Big East team except UConn(BC was original as well but they Judas the conference)made the Final Four in the 1980s.

The conference establishing and ESPN exposure helped all the schools.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Every original Big East team except UConn made the Final Four in the 1980s.

The conference establishing and ESPN exposure helped all the schools.

Again, not denying that the BE was important.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Every original Big East team except UConn made the Final Four in the 1980s.

The conference establishing and ESPN exposure helped all the schools.

Boston College has never been to a Final Four.

Not in the 1980's. Not ever.

 

[tbonezone]

i remember. seton hall was a joke. a pencil in W. and then suddenly they weren't. they're #1.

 

[orange79]

i remember. seton hall was a joke. a pencil in W. and then suddenly they weren't. they're #1.

Yup. It was all the league and the Dome, and had nothing to do with coaching. Or the players. Not much of an upgrade from Raf to PJ. And then it took PJ 6 years to finally have a winning record. And when he left, they fell off the map. Did they leave the league?

 

[tbonezone]

"Before the start of the conference, Eastern basketball was quite fragmented, ... The Big East gave Eastern basketball a national identity, and the Dome was the perfect stage for those nationally televised games."

JB.



you did watch requiem and hear JB talk about dave gavitt and the importance of the league ?

 

[SUFan44]

Agree with the premise of the article. This program is most certainly at a crossroads.

 

[tbonezone]

danforth left us for tulane. JB is leaving for the links. if he truly bleeds orange he should be spending at least half his energies making sure that his successor is set up to make SU succeed.

 

[dasher]

danforth left us for tulane. JB is leaving for the links. if he truly bleeds orange he should be spending at least half his energies making sure that his successor is set up to make SU succeed.

Look, Jb wasn't as engaged as he should have been. That much is obvious. But in fairness, Hop wasn't either. Hop should never have gone to coach the pics this past year. He should have been home taking care of his business. And somehow, no one ever blames Hop for any of this. This was a blue plated program being handed to him. And the year before, he is off doing someone else's business? And then he bails after not doing the work he should have been doing. The next guy that takes over wil be taking over a national player. Something we were not in 1976. We were a strong regional player. Now, everyone knows our name.

 

[tbonezone]

i agree this is now a top ten job. and that is thanks mostly to JB.

 

[SUFan44]

Look, Jb wasn't as engaged as he should have been. That much is obvious. But in fairness, Hop wasn't either. Hop should never have gone to coach the pics this past year. He should have been home taking care of his business. And somehow, no one ever blames Hop for any of this. This was a blue plated program being handed to him. And the year before, he is off doing someone else's business? And then he bails after not doing the work he should have been doing. The next guy that takes over wil be taking over a national player. Something we were not in 1976. We were a strong regional player. Now, everyone knows our name.

I think ultimately the blame falls on Boeheim. He's still the boss. He's the guy that got Hopkins involved with USA Basketball. He's the one that could have told him it is in the program's best interest if he stays back and makes sure we get the guys we need to get. Especially after needing to go the grad transfer route the prior year.

Instead, we received a half-hearted approach by both of our top recruiters, and a very green assistant was left holding the bag. Unfair to everyone involved, most especially GMac and the program.

Would Green have ultimately chosen SU if they played every card they had? Who knows. But the fact of the matter is I do not believe they played every card they had, and that negligence falls squarely on the shoulders of the Hall of Fame coach.

 

[dasher]

I think ultimately the blame falls on Boeheim. He's still the boss. He's the guy that got Hopkins involved with USA Basketball. He's the one that could have told him it is in the program's best interest if he stays back and makes sure we get the guys we need to get. Especially after needing to go the grad transfer route the prior year.

Instead, we received a half-hearted approach by both of our top recruiters, and a very green assistant was left holding the bag. Unfair to everyone involved, most especially GMac and the program.

Would Green have ultimately chosen SU if they played every card they had? Who knows. But the fact of the matter is I do not believe they played every card they had, and that negligence falls squarely on the shoulders of the Hall of Fame coach.

I don't disagree with that. My point is that Hop seems to skate without any blame at all. And he was not going hard the last two years the way he should have been.

 

[SUFan44]

I don't disagree with that. My point is that Hop seems to skate without any blame at all. And he was not going hard the last two years the way he should have been.

Agree with that too. I think he knew what was going to happen and that JB had no notion of going away quietly at the end of next year, like was agreed upon. He was going to take a job at some point and he took one he thinks can become a winner. It's human nature to do only what is bare minimum if you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore.

Which is why I truly believe this next 2-3 year stretch is huge for this program, in order to remain relevant in the near future. You never know how things transpire. I'd like to believe we have enough to sustain things until a good coach/staff come aboard after JB but you never know.

 

[KevMonstah]

I don't see a problem with the article. SU arrived like gangbusters, and that has gone kinda downhill in the last three years. Number of wins/losses
are trending in the wrong way, NCAA certainty trending wrong, recruiting not up to previous standards, and a coach who's getting close to the end
of the string who's not having things go his way. The program has done a few things wrong in the last year to 18 months, and you have naturally
some uncertainty about it, especially because changing it requires a 72 year old coach to get more involved than he seems to have been in all phases
of the game. One does not need to delve into examples of all of them, as the forum probably has every one dissected/refuted, but if the program is
going to continue the way it has been, I doubt many will be happy with it. People will be more happy with performances from prior to using those
stupid uniforms.

Kev

 

[MiniCuse]

Take away John Wallace and Carmelo Anthony and MCW and we're pretty much Seton Hall.

Imagine if Boeheim was made of spare ribs. Or that Gerry Macnamara was an antropomorphic llama.

 

[Toga]

Look, Jb wasn't as engaged as he should have been. That much is obvious. But in fairness, Hop wasn't either. Hop should never have gone to coach the pics this past year. He should have been home taking care of his business. And somehow, no one ever blames Hop for any of this. This was a blue plated program being handed to him. And the year before, he is off doing someone else's business? And then he bails after not doing the work he should have been doing. The next guy that takes over wil be taking over a national player. Something we were not in 1976. We were a strong regional player. Now, everyone knows our name.

Both get some blame from me. It pisses me off to no end. Do your job.

 

[RF2044]

Both get some blame from me. It pisses me off to no end. Do your job.

That's where I land, as well. I certainly understand JB being on the wrong side of 70 and not wanting to do the heavy lifting that is required in high major college basketball anymore -- especially if he was transitioning out after next year, per the succession plan. I'm not suggesting that I'm happy about it, but it at least makes sense.

But I was surprised all season that Hopkins wasn't beating the brush more, given that he was slated to take over. ESPECIALLY because his success as the successor to an icon [which historically hasn't gone well at other schools, like Indiana, UNC, Georgetown, etc.] was going to be tied to the players on the roster. He didn't seem to be doing enough to set himself up for success. Really, it was baffling why the coaching staff seemed to be going through the motions on the recruiting trail.

Last week, SI posted an article talking about Hopkins and his first few weeks at UW, and how he was a tireless worker. I shook my head reading that story, thinking about how poor of a job the staff collectively did on the recruiting trail post-November, post-Green. Maybe Hop knew that JB was sabotaging him behind the scenes -- I don't know. But their collective lack of proactivity was disturbing.

 

[Toga]

That's where I land, as well. I certainly understand JB being on the wrong side of 70 and not wanting to do the heavy lifting that is required in high major college basketball anymore -- especially if he was transitioning out after next year, per the succession plan. I'm not suggesting that I'm happy about it, but it at least makes sense.

But I was surprised all season that Hopkins wasn't beating the brush more, given that he was slated to take over. ESPECIALLY because his success as the successor to an icon [which historically hasn't gone well at other schools, like Indiana, UNC, Georgetown, etc.] was going to be tied to the players on the roster. He didn't seem to be doing enough to set himself up for success. Really, it was baffling why the coaching staff seemed to be going through the motions on the recruiting trail.

Last week, SI posted an article talking about Hopkins and his first few weeks at UW, and how he was a tireless worker. I shook my head reading that story, thinking about how poor of a job the staff collectively did on the recruiting trail post-November, post-Green. Maybe Hop knew that JB was sabotaging him behind the scenes -- I don't know. But their collective lack of proactivity was disturbing.

I try to look at Hop's lack of effort logically and can only come up with two things. One was that JB was, as you say, positioning for a longer stay and the other that Wildhack let him know he wasn't the guy. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[AlaskaSU]

If Syracuse were a stock I'd be shorting.

 

[orangecuse]

i believe JB will even tell you (watch requiem) that the BE , ESPN and dome put us on the map.

I'm not sure how anyone really can debate this fact you point out. Prior to, Syracuse was a nice regional team with success, but the aforementioned clearly launched us into the stratosphere so to speak from a hoops standpoint. We became a national program as a result. Prior to, it was tune into the ECAC game of the week to watch Syracuse play its huge rival St. Bonaventure, etc. I recall the days too when playing the likes of Siena was a big/rival type game...

 

[kirbivore]

underrated flick. Plus Jamie Gertz was fine as hell.