Breaking Bad

[MiniCuse]

As a part time wannabe writer I feel pretty good having been able to break the story arcs down on this series and shockingly it went the way it should have...

As an aside, what was the scene about with Jesse and the box? I'm sure it was something major I missed. Did he give it to Walt?

When he was in rehab he talked about making a wooden box like that in high school shop class or something. He built the box which he then traded for an ounce of weed.

 

[CuseCPT]

Yeah, he said he did a crappy job on it, but the teacher looked at him and said, "Is this the best you can do?" Then he went on to build it over a couple times until it was awesome. Then he traded it for weed.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I can't wait to rewatch this series and pick up so many more things, especially the opening scene of each episode that either shows foreshadowing or flaskbacks.

 

[CuseCPT]

Loved the finale, was a great way to wind things down. The twist with Grey Matter was brilliant. Lost is still #1 in my book, but this is definitely one of the best series I have seen. I'm glad I still have some "new" Breaking Bad left to enjoy, I haven't seen Seasons 4 and 5A yet. A little bummed that Talking Bad spoiled Gus's fate for me, but that's what happens when you aren't current haha.

 

[PeteCalvin]

I, admittedly, got into the show very late in the game. I took advantage of this weekend's marathon to catch up on all the key moments prior to this season so I could be primed for last evening. I am so glad I did that. It made the finale that much sweeter, and also a major bummer. I will be buying the full Blu-Ray set, that's a fact.

SPOILER ALERT:

I knew the minute Lydia stirred her coffee that Walt had got her. Artificially sweet revenge!!

I am so glad that Jesse got to off Todd with his bare hands. That scene was intense. You knew the minute he got up off the floor what he was going to do with those chains.

It was great how Walt shielded Jesse at the end and got him out of there. Those skinhead bastards deserved to go out as a bloody mess.

I think one of my favorite scenes from the series was when they blew up Gus and he walked out of the the freakin room like nothing happened. I was like 'you have got to be KIDDING me! This guy is Teflon!'. Then they reveal the Harvey Dent face. OMG!!

The best thing for me is that I still haven't seen every episode, so going back and reliving it will be a treat.

Great show. Great finale. But where's all that money the skinheads stole?

 

[AZOrange]

I, admittedly, got into the show very late in the game. I took advantage of this weekend's marathon to catch up on all the key moments prior to this season so I could be primed for last evening. I am so glad I did that. It made the finale that much sweeter, and also a major bummer. I will be buying the full Blu-Ray set, that's a fact.

SPOILER ALERT:

I knew the minute Lydia stirred her coffee that Walt had got her. Artificially sweet revenge!!

I am so glad that Jesse got to off Todd with his bare hands. That scene was intense. You knew the minute he got up off the floor what he was going to do with those chains.

It was great how Walt shielded Jesse at the end and got him out of there. Those skinhead bastards deserved to go out as a bloody mess.

I think one of my favorite scenes from the series was when they blew up Gus and he walked out of the the freakin room like nothing happened. I was like 'you have got to be KIDDING me! This guy is Teflon!'. Then they reveal the Harvey Dent face. OMG!!

The best thing for me is that I still haven't seen every episode, so going back and reliving it will be a treat.

Great show. Great finale. But where's all that money the skinheads stole?

Gus' final scene is my favorite. I remember yelling at the TV...What!!! How did he survive!


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[themole]

Simply awesome. My only whine is that it woulda been nice if this episode could have been longer, so they could show more of what Skyler etc have been doing all this time. In fact this has been a very compressed set of final episodes. But still awesome in pretty much every way.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

The only problem I had with the ending, despite its sheer awesomeness, was how walter in a very short time was able to engineer a sophisticated trunk mounted, automated turret machine gun. It just seemed kind of cheap and lazy.

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[Noexcuse]

The only problem I had with the ending, despite its sheer awesomeness, was how walter in a very short time was able to engineer a sophisticated trunk mounted, automated turret machine gun. It just seemed kind of cheap and lazy.

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I thought about that. Probably worked the plan out in his mind during the drive from New Hampshire. Or maybe during his time alone up in the cabin.

 

[BillJay]

I thought about that. Probably worked the plan out in his mind during the drive from New Hampshire. Or maybe during his time alone up in the cabin.

Still, it seemed MacGyverish, relied on improbable circumstances (what were the odds that WW would be able to park the car in exactly the right place?) &, most importantly in my opinion, didn't make use of Walt's chemistry expertise. I would've preferred that Walt had a backup plan in the trunk (poison gas?, explosive device?) to use if the M60 wasn't feasible. It would've taken down everybody in one fell swoop - it could have even been the primary plan & then have Walt decide on the M60 once he saw the state that Jesse was in. Oh well, it'll be interesting to see if the extras on the BluRay box set (or should I say barrel set?) include some of the writer discussions re various plot elements.

 

[moqui]

the finale was, in fact, one of the more poorly written shows in the entire run. that is not to say that it was bad, though, but just that the bar was set so high during the previous 61 episodes. A couple of weak points:

• Gilligan literally resorted to a Deus ex Machina for his ending - a colossal disappointment for those of us who loved the artistry of the show. Walt was so well known for his technical genius - Todd practically worshiped him - and it is frankly unbelievable that Jack's gang (demonstrably concerned with security in their compound) would allow his car inside without a thorough search, let alone parking it right next to Jack's headquarters building.
• Marie's call to Skylar confirmed that the feds suspected that the missing New Hampshire Volvo was stolen by Walt to make his getaway. And still, this man who would have vaulted to #1 on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List with the disappearance and suspected slaying of two DEA agents, was able to drive that wanted, stolen vehicle across the entire continent without so much as a change in license plates. At a minimum, the New Mexico border entry points would have been on high alert for a piece-of-shjt Volvo with NH plates.
• How did Walt contact the gun dealer to get his M60 in the first place? He had the contact from Saul, but it is highly unlikely that (a) he would have committed the number to memory and (b) that it is something that he would have grabbed when he was making his desperate getaway - and even that was truncated by his knife fight with Skylar, so he left largely unprepared. Why couldn't he have memorized it, you ask? Well, he couldn't even memorize the GPS coordinates of his most prized possession; why would he memorize a phone number that he called exactly one time? Saul is long gone, so he can't get it from him, and he has no other contacts - Saul was actually the Chief Operating Officer the whole time. I suppose that Walt could have gotten all that info from Saul in the days the two of them were roommates waiting for relocation and Walt was still scheming, but that was never made clear by the writers, who instead made Saul a defeated character who had totally given up and advised Walt to do the same.

The fact of the matter is that Gilligan succumbed to sentimentality and to the demands of the latter-day fans who saw this as more of an action-adventure show than the morality play it was intended to be. He gave Walt a far better ending than he deserved - almost a hero's ending. That was the commercial choice and, as I said, it was not bad per se, just not as good as it should have been.

The better ending, truer to the original path of the show, would have been to let Walt wither away and die, cold and alone in his New Hampshire cabin, surrounded by his useless remaining millions. I would even have shown Walt too weak to go outside for firewood, and reduced to burning stacks of cash to keep himself warm in his last few hours. That would have been the artistic ending.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

Im not saying I disliked the ending. It was actually okay, I enjoyed walter trying to redeem himself and admitting he was selfish. But the fact that uncle jack was a serious adversary of walt seemed too rushed and poorly thought out. He was such a minor character. Gus was much better enemy of walts. I agree the ending was sloppy and poorly written in an effort to entertain the popcorn eating masses.

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[Noexcuse]

the finale was, in fact, one of the more poorly written shows in the entire run. that is not to say that it was bad, though, but just that the bar was set so high during the previous 61 episodes. A couple of weak points:

• Gilligan literally resorted to a Deus ex Machina for his ending - a colossal disappointment for those of us who loved the artistry of the show. Walt was so well known for his technical genius - Todd practically worshiped him - and it is frankly unbelievable that Jack's gang (demonstrably concerned with security in their compound) would allow his car inside without a thorough search, let alone parking it right next to Jack's headquarters building.
• Marie's call to Skylar confirmed that the feds suspected that the missing New Hampshire Volvo was stolen by Walt to make his getaway. And still, this man who would have vaulted to #1 on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List with the disappearance and suspected slaying of two DEA agents, was able to drive that wanted, stolen vehicle across the entire continent without so much as a change in license plates. At a minimum, the New Mexico border entry points would have been on high alert for a piece-of-shjt Volvo with NH plates.
• How did Walt contact the gun dealer to get his M60 in the first place? He had the contact from Saul, but it is highly unlikely that (a) he would have committed the number to memory and (b) that it is something that he would have grabbed when he was making his desperate getaway - and even that was truncated by his knife fight with Skylar, so he left largely unprepared. Why couldn't he have memorized it, you ask? Well, he couldn't even memorize the GPS coordinates of his most prized possession; why would he memorize a phone number that he called exactly one time? Saul is long gone, so he can't get it from him, and he has no other contacts - Saul was actually the Chief Operating Officer the whole time. I suppose that Walt could have gotten all that info from Saul in the days the two of them were roommates waiting for relocation and Walt was still scheming, but that was never made clear by the writers, who instead made Saul a defeated character who had totally given up and advised Walt to do the same.

The fact of the matter is that Gilligan succumbed to sentimentality and to the demands of the latter-day fans who saw this as more of an action-adventure show than the morality play it was intended to be. He gave Walt a far better ending than he deserved - almost a hero's ending. That was the commercial choice and, as I said, it was not bad per se, just not as good as it should have been.

The better ending, truer to the original path of the show, would have been to let Walt wither away and die, cold and alone in his New Hampshire cabin, surrounded by his useless remaining millions. I would even have shown Walt too weak to go outside for firewood, and reduced to burning stacks of cash to keep himself warm in his last few hours. That would have been the artistic ending.

Can't argue with anything you are saying. Still, one thing to consider is they sort of did give you that ending. It was in the previous episode Granite State. Just like they gave us the ending where Walt keeps his money, gets out of the business and lives happily ever after with his family (Gliding Over All). And the one where Walt uses his intellect to stay ahead of the law after Hank realizes that Walt is Heisenberg. And the one where Walt finally gets arrested (To'hajiilee), escapes arrest (Ozymandias), dies a lonely, bitter death, and the one where he comes back and reclaims his empire. Luck was always an important part of moving the story forward and in that respect the writers were true to the overall arc of the series imo.

I think the real problem with the ending is that it was spread out over a number of episodes and we were forced to wait a week between them to watch what happens next giving us too much time to think about things. Hitchcock was an expert at maintaining the pace of the story in such a way that you didn't have time to question the logic or improbability of what just happened. I watched most of the first 4.5 seasons on netflix and watching without interruption provides a much better experience imo. At some point, I expect I will watch the last 8 that way, and I am guessing the ending will tie together much better and the series as a whole will "make sense".

Walt loses everything in the end. There are no guarantees that Skyler won't do jail time, that Walt Jr. will actually get the money or that Jesse will get past the incoming police. Walt liked what he did, was good at it and it made him feel alive. He fell prey to the trappings of power and it ended up destroying him. In the end, all he really wanted was to be in his lab producing a product so pure that no one else could replicate it.

 

[Ragman2000]

Moqui, normally I'm with you 100%, but on this one you are taking a contrarian approach and way over thinking things. The finale was awesome. Pure unadulterated awesome. The nitpicks you point out are, at best, a stretch. Nothing is perfect, but it's condescending to suggest that the ending was cheapened for the popcorn eating masses. It was beautiful on so many levels.

I'd also argue that the gun on the garage door opener was not a deux ex machina at all, it just doesn't fit the definition as I know it as a traditional plot device.

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[moqui]

Moqui, normally I'm with you 100%, but on this one you are taking a contrarian approach and way over thinking things. The finale was awesome. Pure unadulterated awesome. The nitpicks you point out are, at best, a stretch. Nothing is perfect, but it's condescending to suggest that the ending was cheapened for the popcorn eating masses. It was beautiful on so many levels.

I'd also argue that the gun on the garage door opener was not a deux ex machina at all, it just doesn't fit the definition as I know it as a traditional plot device.

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I loved that show from day one and by early in the second season I was telling all who would listen (and many who would not) that it was the best show ever . . . I am not just being contrarian; I am a true aficionado, disappointed by a finale that I believe somewhat lessened an otherwise significant artistic achievement. To me, the greatness of Breaking Bad was in its thematic structure and development, not its set pieces (which were great in and of themselves, too).

if you liked it, you liked it, and I can't argue anyone out of that, nor do I want to, but in the fullness of time I believe that the finale will be recognized by critics as the kind of lazy writing more typically associated with Dexter. Gilligan himself has said all along that the show was about the moral destruction of a man and the devastation that it wreaks all around him . . . until it wasn't.

Gilligan wrote a Dostoevskyian tale wherein everyone associated with Walt was visited with death or ruin, but then wrapped it up with a Peckinpah finish where suddenly Walt got to be the hero and save his family and partner after all - it was a 180 degree swerve out of character with the show to that point and with the interviews Gilligan has been giving for six years, in which he has consistently stated that all sins must have a reckoning.

 

[MiniCuse]

I loved that show from day one and by early in the second season I was telling all who would listen (and many who would not) that it was the best show ever . . . I am not just being contrarian; I am a true aficionado, disappointed by a finale that I believe somewhat lessened an otherwise significant artistic achievement. To me, the greatness of Breaking Bad was in its thematic structure and development, not its set pieces (which were great in and of themselves, too).

if you liked it, you liked it, and I can't argue anyone out of that, nor do I want to, but in the fullness of time I believe that the finale will be recognized by critics as the kind of lazy writing more typically associated with Dexter. Gilligan himself has said all along that the show was about the moral destruction of a man and the devastation that it wreaks all around him . . . until it wasn't.

Gilligan wrote a Dostoevskyian tale wherein everyone associated with Walt was visited with death or ruin, but then wrapped it up with a Peckinpah finish where suddenly Walt got to be the hero and save his family and partner after all - it was a 180 degree swerve out of character with the show to that point and with the interviews Gilligan has been giving for six years, in which he has consistently stated that all sins must have a reckoning.

Did Walt really save anyone? Skyler's driving a cab. The threat of incarceration looms over her. Flynn is riding the bus. Hank is dead and Marie is devastated. There's no guarantee that Gretchen and Elliot will hand over a single dime to Flynn. Especially when they see that Walt is dead. Jesse's life to this point has been hell. He drove off into the night screaming like a crazy person. How far behind him is law enforcement? It's not like Walt swooped in and saved the day and then rode off into the sunset to live happily ever after.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Did Walt really save anyone? Skyler's driving a cab. The threat of incarceration looms over her. Flynn is riding the bus. Hank is dead and Marie is devastated. There's no guarantee that Gretchen and Elliot will hand over a single dime to Flynn. Especially when they see that Walt is dead. Jesse's life to this point has been hell. He drove off into the night screaming like a crazy person. How far behind him is law enforcement? It's not like Walt swooped in and saved the day and then rode off into the sunset to live happily ever after.

Elliot and Gretchen seemed 100% convinced that badger and skinny Pete were hitmen so I strongly believe they give the money. Nothing tells me otherwise.

 

[Pearl309]

Ozymandias was the real finale, granite state and felina were the epilogue

 

[moqui]

Ozymandias was the real finale, granite state and felina were the epilogue

they definitely have that added-on feeling, especially Felina.

 

[Knicks411]

Ozymandias was the real finale, granite state and felina were the epilogue

Yup, I've read that sentiment elsewhere and i think it makes a lot of sense. The bulk of the story ended with Walt getting into the van

 

[moqui]

I see I am not alone in my disappointment . . . across the spectrum, some lay it out better than I have

From the left, Emily Nussbaum at the New Yorker

From the right, AJ Delgado at Breitbart.com

I especially like Nussbaum's discourse, and her retrieval of the episode: it was all just a dying fantasy of Walt's as he lay freezing to death in New Hampshire. I am going to take that as a given, because otherwise the episode works to diminish the entire series.

 

[Ragman2000]

I see I am not alone in my disappointment . . . across the spectrum, some lay it out better than I have

From the left, Emily Nussbaum at the New Yorker

From the right, AJ Delgado at Breitbart.com

I especially like Nussbaum's discourse, and her retrieval of the episode: it was all just a dying fantasy of Walt's as he lay freezing to death in New Hampshire. I am going to take that as a given, because otherwise the episode works to diminish the entire series.

Moqui, I sort of feel like the little boy looking through a large batch of cow pies looking for a pony and you're the old man telling me it's a big pile of stuff.

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[BlackKnight76]

I find it strange that people get so annoyed with the end of shows like Sopranos and Lost for their ambiguity, but then when a show lays it out cleanly like Breaking Bad, they found that things went to easily. Sure, Walt's final plan went well, but he's still leaving two kids without a father, and who knows if they ever get the money, Skylar and Marie without husbands, Jesse with about as much emotional distress as possible, probably a major target for the cops, and without any money in the end, and countless other people dead or forever changed. The last episode went about as well for Walt as an individual as it could have, but the series doesn't wrap up with a bow and everyone happy.

I also think that the constant amount of prying and speculation that the fanbase did on every second of every scene probably detracted from some of the real-time drama of the episode. If it wasn't for the constant combing over of details and the endless conspiracies, a number of which ended up being spot on (but plenty more that weren't), we probably all would've been more surprised. There were probably ten endings that could have happened that wouldn't have shocked anyone, because they were all considered online so we were prepared for almost anything, maybe to a fault.

 

[Pearl309]

I see I am not alone in my disappointment . . . across the spectrum, some lay it out better than I have

From the left, Emily Nussbaum at the New Yorker

From the right, AJ Delgado at Breitbart.com

I especially like Nussbaum's discourse, and her retrieval of the episode: it was all just a dying fantasy of Walt's as he lay freezing to death in New Hampshire. I am going to take that as a given, because otherwise the episode works to diminish the entire series.

You should listen to the insider podcast if you don't already. Gilligan basically said this was the only season they wrote "inorganically" as in they knew roughly where it was going to go and had to put the pieces together to get there. I def think this season hurt because of that.
In previous seasons they allude to them "organically" writing episode to episode without knowing where it would head.

 

[BlackKnight76]

You should all go listen to the last Breaking Bad Insider podcast with Gilligan and other writers/producers. It's pretty incredible some of the stuff that they were planning on the series.