Broken Approach needs to change

[dasher]

I may have missed it but since the Quade thread is locked and I haven't seen it posted anywhere. There was a poster in the Green thread that said once the decision had been made people would be upset with how this went down. I haven't been able to find that post in the thread since there are so many. Does anyone know what I am referring to? Any insight?

That was me.

 

[thebigeast44]

UNC is recruiting the same type of talent we are, but it just so happens their 4* guys are staying 4 years while ours stay 1 or 2.

They have 6 McDonald's AA on their roster this year - we have 1. Agreed on getting our guys to stay.

 

[dasher]

i don't think JB really understands recruiting anymore or even wants to learn the new game this far along into his storied career.
quade green doesn't hurt us as bad as say stephon marbury. marbury said he was definitely coming here for 2 years. quade was always question mark.

Are you insinuating that you understand recruiting more now than JB does? JB understands recruiting. We got a verbal from the kid. He was stolen from us. This is what JB understands. That getting a pt guard this cycle wasn't that important to us. We wanted Green because we recognized early that the kid was really good and we were in front of the curb. That is why we didn't go after any of the plan B guys. The staff loves Frank and knows he will be here next year. Wings, different story.

 

[jordoo]

Wow the multiple posting is an epidemic lately. It has to be something with the site. Its about the 3rd time I've seen someone post and its up there at least 3 times.

 

[IthacaMatt]

you're crazy

Check 0ut one of Francis' podcasts from earlier in this cycle. There was interest from some major kids in this class, and we just didn't seem to want to go after them.

 

[dasher]

Check 0ut one of Francis' podcasts from earlier in this cycle. There was interest from some major kids in this class, and we just didn't seem to want to go after them.

There is a big difference between a kid saying to a reporter yeah, I like Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, Syracuse and Duke. And the kid really being interested in Syracuse. We are a school that is big time and is easy for a kid to throw that name in. Our coaches want to win more than you and I want them to win Matt. This is their life's work. If they believe a kid has interest, they will pursue him. They aren't lazy. That is ridiculous.

 

[RF2044]

where's gerry playing ?

What on earth does Gerry have to do with Marbury? Other than being part of a championship for us, of course?

 

[Madbiker]

I'm sure this has been pretty hashed out since Saturday but I haven't really read anything so here are my thoughts.

I've had a couple days to think about things and yes its easy to be mad at Quade Green or Calipari, or UK or WWW but that doesn't change anything and its not really the correct place to lay the blame IMO. You can say what you want about any of those referenced above and there is likely some truth to it but this one goes on our staff plain and simple. Its the approach that is flawed. It didn't work with Battle but we lucked out, it didn't work with Bryant and now it hasn't worked with Green. You simply cannot give up on recruiting other good players you like at the same position and focus on one player UNLESS that player has actually verbally committed and even then they need to sign during the next signing period.

SU did everything they could to get Green to come to SU but he never committed and he never signed. Looking back with a clear head its now easy to see why. He was looking for something and while it is infuriating that he did and said what he needed to to keep his spot safe at SU it was our staff that allowed him to do that. When we got involved with Coleman and set up a visit who came running to SU for a surprise visit? Green. Then Coleman is saying that SU is going to focus on Green and he cancelled his visit. How does the staff allow this. I think at that point Green knew he could string us along all the way till the end and if he didn't get what he wanted from UK he would still have a safe landing place at SU with lots of playing time available.

I don't know how it went down with Green on that visit but the staff has to put the ball back in his court if he is indicating that he doesn't want us recruiting other PG's. Say something like "Quade, you are our #1 guy, we love your game, you are the guy we want all you have to do is verbally commit and sign these papers. We can't be left with an empty cupboard and its getting late in the process. We are sure that you are our PG but are you sure? You can end our recruitment of other PG's whenever you want to." I'm not saying threaten the kid, I'm saying put the ball in his court and make it clear that its on him to pull the trigger or not but we aren't waiting forever. Even if a guy walks away at that point you have more time and more options.

I'm sure the staff has also figured this out and will make the adjustment. I'm not throwing them under the buss just pointing out an obviously flawed approach that has happened the last few cycles. It may have been a reaction to NCAA sanctions and recruiting restrictions to just really concentrate on certain players but it hasn't worked out well especially on the ones where we completely stopped recruiting that position other than the one guy we wanted. We simply cannot afford to recruit this way going forward because it leaves the door open for all sorts of shenanigans at the end. If the kids not going to commit/sign then we keep recruiting other kids until they do as the longer they wait the more obvious it becomes that they are anything but a sure thing no matter how far in the lead we are.

100% spot on and exactly what I have been thinking ever since Green attended the UK game at MSG last Tuesday night. A kid that you think is committing to you in a couple days (or already gave you a silent verbal) doesn't go to that game and into the UK locker room unless he knows he's going there. This is a big time lesson for young guys like GMac and Red. You don't leave yourself without a plan B. You never put all your eggs in one basket. It's just too risky. But I'm very surprised JB would allow it or order it given that he has been burned by this type of situation in the past. Same thing happened with Kenny Anderson and Stephon Marbury. That's a long time ago but it's the same old sh-t. You don't stop recruiting other top players at the position until the guy gives you a public announcement.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There is a big difference between a kid saying to a reporter yeah, I like Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, Syracuse and Duke. And the kid really being interested in Syracuse. We are a school that is big time and is easy for a kid to throw that name in. Our coaches want to win more than you and I want them to win Matt. This is their life's work. If they believe a kid has interest, they will pursue him. They aren't lazy. That is ridiculous.

 

[dasher]

View attachment 82774

yeah, that;s the money shot. How many final fours since that picture was taken?

 

[PhatOrange]

Check 0ut one of Francis' podcasts from earlier in this cycle. There was interest from some major kids in this class, and we just didn't seem to want to go after them.

and what are their details, positions, needs etc ? just because i kid says i like syracuse, doesnt mean jack. Last I checked we just got 2 kids we wanted no?

 

[two3zone]

and what are their details, positions, needs etc ? just because i kid says i like syracuse, doesnt mean jack. Last I checked we just got 2 kids we wanted no?

All kids aren't created equal.

Just to explain this easy, if we have 5 open spots, 2 of the spots are 5 star top flight guys and 3 of the spots are guys not ranked high and they are more of program kids. If you end up with 3 of the program kids it may not bring the success that you hoped from the recruiting class.

 

[PhatOrange]

All kids aren't created equal.

Just to explain this easy, if we have 5 open spots, 2 of the spots are 5 star top flight guys and 3 of the spots are guys not ranked high and they are more of program kids. If you end up with 3 of the program kids it may not bring the success that you hoped from the recruiting class.

I'll take program guys all day long. A lot of good Donte Green and Chris McCollough did.

Bradon Triche, Scoop Jardine, Andy Rautins faired a little better I'd say.

 

[two3zone]

I'll take program guys all day long. A lot of good Donte Green and Chris McCollough did.

Bradon Triche, Scoop Jardine, Andy Rautins faired a little better I'd say.

A lot good that Wes Johnson, Carmelo Anthony, and that Dion Waiters did. Especially Carmelo, too bad we didn't have another program guy like Kueth Duaney on the team instead of Carmelo, probably would have won the NC game by 20 instead.

 

[PhatOrange]

A lot good that Wes Johnson, Carmelo Anthony, and that Dion Waiters did. Especially Carmelo, too bad we didn't have another program guy like Kueth Duaney on the team instead of Carmelo, probably would have won the NC game by 20 instead.

It goes without saying you need some studs and Wes was a transfer.

In today's game with a great coach you need top 75 kids not top 20 kids.

Mali was #35 which is great but Roberson #39 compared to Lydon #64. Rankings in hoops ain't the be all for success.

 

[two3zone]

It goes without saying you need some studs and Wes was a transfer.

In today's game with a great coach you need top 75 kids not top 20 kids.

Mali was #35 which is great but Roberson #39 compared to Lydon #64. Rankings in hoops ain't the be all for success.

Well, they're all top 100.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A class with Mali/Lydon/Howard would be great any year. You can beat the top teams with those players, problem is we aren't getting that this year.

Sidibe and Brissett are solid players but I don't see either having the immediate impact Lydon and Mal had.

 

[Toga]

Who is the closer? The assistant most in contact, or JB?

 

[RF2044]

you don't know that. nobody does. what we do know is that marbury was a superior pg. that is a fact. my opinion is that we win it all.

JB apparently knows it:

"One thing that I think is misunderstood in recruiting, this is generically speaking, since I can't specifically talk about any recruit, but when you decide to recruit a player and you're going to wait for him, that's what you do. You can't keep other players involved because they want a decision. You make those decisions as you go along. We made that decision in 1995-96 (with Marbury), and we didn't get the player we wanted. The following year, the junior point guard (Sims) became a senior and we went to the Final Four. (Marbury) went to the NBA in one year. So I don't think we would have done any better had we gotten that guard."



Sound familiar?:

Meh--I don't see Marbury as that big of a loss. We had near perfect chemistry in 1996, with Z at the helm. We probably don't go to the championship game with Starbury gunking up the works.

 

[tbonezone]

JB didn't turn down marbury. vice versa. had marbury come here laz doesn't see the floor. how we finish ? nobody knows. but JB takes marbury over sims any day every day in the recruiting game. true then true today. and again i say we beat kentucky with marbury and foyle. but we'll never know.

 

[doc05]

JB didn't turn down marbury. vice versa. had marbury come here laz doesn't see the floor. how we finish ? nobody knows. but JB takes marbury over sims any day every day in the recruiting game. true then true today. and again i say we beat kentucky with marbury and foyle. but we'll never know.

Man , Mabury was pre-internet fan forums. Can you imagine if that happened today? Quade is good but he isn't Marbury. I guess good old Bobby Kremins really showed him just how great it is to be a Yellow Jacket

 

[tbonezone]

what killed us was that marbury told everybody for 2 years prior to signing with the jackets he was coming to syracuse. killed any pg recruiting for us.

 

[RF2044]

JB didn't turn down marbury. vice versa. had marbury come here laz doesn't see the floor. how we finish ? nobody knows. but JB takes marbury over sims any day every day in the recruiting game. true then true today. and again i say we beat kentucky with marbury and foyle. but we'll never know.

Straw man.

I said that Marbury wouldn't have gotten us as far as we advanced that year [i.e., the 1996 championship game].

JB coincidentally said the same exact thing last night in his press conference.

Case closed.

 

[tbonezone]

case closed counselor ?
all i said was come recruitment day JB takes marbury over sims. that is a fact . we bet the whole house on marbury. now whether or not you reach the Final 4 with or without marbury is pure speculation. but this i guarantee. had JB a choice then he takes marbury and lazarus sims is a footnote.
that is not even debatable. case closed.

 

[RF2044]

case closed counselor ?
all i said was come recruitment day JB takes marbury over sims. that is a fact . we bet the whole house on marbury. now whether or not you reach the Final 4 with or without marbury is pure speculation. but this i guarantee. had JB a choice then he takes marbury and lazarus sims is a footnote.
that is not even debatable. case closed.

Which is why it was a straw man, because that wasn't what was being discussed.

Now, go enjoy some turkey this weekend.