Buddy

[Zelda Zonk]

Were we winning the game? Weren't we falling behind by mid-teens and the starters were playing really, really flat? Was that just me? Kid hit a couple threes. You see if he can stay hot. If he doesn't, worst case, maybe you teach the "better" players a lesson about effort and floor time being earned, not assumed.

You can rationalize it all you want, but your version seems quite contrived when you compare his 'privilege' versus that of every other non-performing, defensively-challenged freshman we've ever had.

Whatever. No one here is 'anti Buddy.' We all want him to succeed. But, he hasn't. And players who have done what he has done just haven't been put into game situations like this in the past. I don't even care about the nepotism component. He just isn't/hasn't ever demonstrated he's one of the five best options that could be put on the floor at this point.

 

[cuse10]

You can rationalize it all you want, but your version seems quite contrived when you compare his 'privilege' versus that of every other non-performing, defensively-challenged freshman we've ever had.

Whatever. No one here is 'anti Buddy.' We all want him to succeed. But, he hasn't. And players who have done what he has done just haven't been put into game situations like this in the past. I don't even care about the nepotism component. He just isn't/hasn't ever demonstrated he's one of the five best options that could be put on the floor at this point.

Again, did you watch the game? When his minutes went up in the second half the game was at the point where you threw crap at the wall to see what stuck. Maybe if Elijah, Tyus and Frank didn't look ahead to Duke, Buddy would have saw the same minutes that Carey got or less. If those guys feel slighted in any way, then this team has bigger problems. If he couldn't play, he wouldn't be here.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Again, did you watch the game? When his minutes went up in the second half the game was at the point where you threw crap at the wall to see what stuck. Maybe if Elijah, Tyus and Frank didn't look ahead to Duke, Buddy would have saw the same minutes that Carey got or less. If those guys feel slighted in any way, then this team has bigger problems. If he couldn't play, he wouldn't be here.

Watched the game. Watched all the games. In the last three(?), wasn't he in in the first half of those games? Again, a player who misses that many shots and is that slow afoot on defense and is that young has never previously earned first half, in-conference minutes. You can say all you want about throwing stuff against the wall, but we haven't thrown that kind of stuff against the wall in 40 years. What's different now?

And suggesting anyone 'looked ahead to Duke' is really kinda silly. Does 'looking ahead' only work one game ahead? Has Tyus not been a warrior for us? The kid lives and dies on that court. Questioning his 'heart' and priorities is... sad.

"If he couldn't play, he wouldn't be here?" Seriously? I'll never question him being given a scholarship. He will eventually be a good player for us. He just isn't now. And if he weren't named Boeheim and played HS somewhere else in the country, we would not have even scouted or recruited him.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Watched the game. Watched all the games. In the last three(?), wasn't he in in the first half of those games? Again, a player who misses that many shots and is that slow afoot on defense and is that young has never previously earned first half, in-conference minutes. You can say all you want about throwing stuff against the wall, but we haven't thrown that kind of stuff against the wall in 40 years. What's different now?

And suggesting anyone 'looked ahead to Duke' is really kinda silly. Does 'looking ahead' only work one game ahead? Has Tyus not been a warrior for us? The kid lives and dies on that court. Questioning his 'heart' and priorities is... sad.

"If he couldn't play, he wouldn't be here?" Seriously? I'll never question him being given a scholarship. He will eventually be a good player for us. He just isn't now. And if he weren't named Boeheim and played HS somewhere else in the country, we would not have even scouted or recruited him.

That last sentence you could say about Andy Rautins and Brandon Triche and they won a lot of games here.

Also I’d wager that if he had a different last name you could care less that he played.

Of everything that came out of yesterday’s debacle this is the thing you want to hang your hat on?

 

[rrlbees]

You folks are way over thinking this or buying into conspiracy theories.

JB played Buddy those long minutes in the second half because GT was packing it in and daring us to take and make long jumpers. Nobody was having a lot of success so he went with Buddy who did hit the two in a row and he rolled the dice staying with him hoping he’d get hot since we were down double digits and didn’t have much going.

 

[CaptainJ]

I just hope JB doesn't actually beleive that playing his son was giving his team the best chance to win and he did it to send a message to other players (i also think hughes got injured by chukwu's tomfoolery and that might have been part of it too)- but even that scenario is bad news for the squad - it means there are serious issues behind the scenes - which would make sense given how the team has played to this point.

It's hard to lol when coming on here today, but you managed to make me do so. I had to point out that was what the like was for. I havent taken enough time to consider the Ban Buddy argument yet.

I might have missed it, but what Chuckwu tomfoolery were you mentioning? Sometimes just his presence comes across as such, to me. I'm not saying it's right, but for some reason I find the guy amusing at times.

 

[orangehomer]

You folks are way over thinking this or buying into conspiracy theories.

JB played Buddy those long minutes in the second half because GT was packing it in and daring us to take and make long jumpers. Nobody was having a lot of success so he went with Buddy who did hit the two in a row and he rolled the dice staying with him hoping he’d get hot since we were down double digits and didn’t have much going.

so now we are down to our HOF coach in a home game as a 10 point favorite "rolling the dice" on hoping a true freshman might get hot from three? it's apparently worse than i thought and I thought it was bad.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Folks, Buddy is shooting 25% from the field and 24% from three.

Here's the list of recent rotation players with similar shooting numbers:

Frankie 15-16 - 29%/10%

That's the list. At least going as far back as '01.

Assuming Buddy continues to be a part of the rotation and maintains his current shooting percentages, he'll be the worst shooting rotation player we've had this century.

He's exceptional in an undesirable way.

 

[KevMonstah]

The issue with this team is not that Buddy played whatever and went 3-11 yesterday, it's that against GaTech
over the last TWO years, the team has a grand total of 110 points, and the big three have gone ...

Battle - 4-17 (2018) 3-12 (2019) == 7-29
Brissette - 4-10 (2018) 4-10 (2019) == 8-20
Howard - 4-17 (2018) 3-8 (2019) 7-25

and let's toss Hughes' 3-12 into that pile, and you're "shooters" are hitting 29% from the field,
add to that the combined 34 turnovers in the two games, and you have ... GARBAGE. It's games
like this, underperforming terribly against some defense they've never seen before, and, ..., uh,
what? You mean this team actually knows what a zone is, knows where the weakpoints are (cuz
they get schooled by it), knows the rotations, and then acts like some non-conference foe who's
never seen zone before? It's rotten lousy letdown losses against poor teams that lead to
38-37 conference records, and lead directly to bubble day.

Way more problems for SU than Buddy going 3-11 in 21 mins.

And the 9th guy on the statline is not a rotational player for a Boeheim coached team
in any way.

Kev

 

[Zelda Zonk]

That last sentence you could say about Andy Rautins and Brandon Triche and they won a lot of games here.

Also I’d wager that if he had a different last name you could care less that he played.

Of everything that came out of yesterday’s debacle this is the thing you want to hang your hat on?

If Rautins hadn't been a legacy, we wouldn't have recruited him. Triche was supposed to be very good, and he was in our backyard. That made a lot of sense.

You'd lose that wager. Either you're making wrong assumptions, or you couldn't bother to read my posts. I don't care that he has the coach's name. If Howard Washington weren't redshirting and we played him in the first half of a tight league game during his freshman year, i'd be questioning it, too. Maybe you should participate in the game threads. It has been quite a common theme to be astonished to see young Boeheim playing such a prominent role while not demonstrating productivity.

I'm not hanging my hat on anything. This is one particular topic. This happens to be a "Buddy"-titled thread. Which of my other 'hats' would you expect to see 'hung' here? You wandered in here just looking for a friend?

 

[hungrychuck]

The issue with this team is not that Buddy played whatever and went 3-11 yesterday, it's that against GaTech
over the last TWO years, the team has a grand total of 110 points, and the big three have gone ...

Battle - 4-17 (2018) 3-12 (2019) == 7-29
Brissette - 4-10 (2018) 4-10 (2019) == 8-20
Howard - 4-17 (2018) 3-8 (2019) 7-25

and let's toss Hughes' 3-12 into that pile, and you're "shooters" are hitting 29% from the field,
add to that the combined 34 turnovers in the two games, and you have ... GARBAGE. It's games
like this, underperforming terribly against some defense they've never seen before, and, ..., uh,
what? You mean this team actually knows what a zone is, knows where the weakpoints are (cuz
they get schooled by it), knows the rotations, and then acts like some non-conference foe who's
never seen zone before? It's rotten lousy letdown losses against poor teams that lead to
38-37 conference records, and lead directly to bubble day.

Way more problems for SU than Buddy going 3-11 in 21 mins.

And the 9th guy on the statline is not a rotational player for a Boeheim coached team
in any way.

Kev

Sounds like you're saying that of the Boeheims, Buddy is far less culpable in this loss.

 

[rrlbees]

so now we are down to our HOF coach in a home game as a 10 point favorite "rolling the dice" on hoping a true freshman might get hot from three? it's apparently worse than i thought and I thought it was bad.

at that point of the second half yes. what does being a 10 point fav have to do with the reality of being down 15 and nobody hitting anything?

 

[CardiacCuse]

The issue with this team is not that Buddy played whatever and went 3-11 yesterday, it's that against GaTech
over the last TWO years, the team has a grand total of 110 points, and the big three have gone ...

Battle - 4-17 (2018) 3-12 (2019) == 7-29
Brissette - 4-10 (2018) 4-10 (2019) == 8-20
Howard - 4-17 (2018) 3-8 (2019) 7-25

and let's toss Hughes' 3-12 into that pile, and you're "shooters" are hitting 29% from the field,
add to that the combined 34 turnovers in the two games, and you have ... GARBAGE. It's games
like this, underperforming terribly against some defense they've never seen before, and, ..., uh,
what? You mean this team actually knows what a zone is, knows where the weakpoints are (cuz
they get schooled by it), knows the rotations, and then acts like some non-conference foe who's
never seen zone before? It's rotten lousy letdown losses against poor teams that lead to
38-37 conference records, and lead directly to bubble day.

Way more problems for SU than Buddy going 3-11 in 21 mins.

And the 9th guy on the statline is not a rotational player for a Boeheim coached team
in any way.

Kev

yeah but this is the buddy thread - that's why he's the focus of this discussion - not because everyone wants to blame him for everything.

 

[IthacaMatt]

One of my iss


I don't think we have a conspiracy but I do think the minutes are a bit unwarranted. Since I started this thread (and ensuing madness) I figure I'll throw one more bit of info out there. This isn't a one game thing. If you look across our most recent 5 game stretch the bench minutes have gone:
'- Buddy 65 minutes with 26 shots
- Chukwu 64 minutes, 5 shots
- Sidibe 49 minutes, 8 shots
- Carey 47 minutes, 11 shots
- Braswell 13 minutes, 5 shots

That means Buddy is earning time like the 6th man. I get it that Chukwu and Sidibe play the same role but I am not sure anyone can tell me Buddy is the best option of the bench. Now for full disclosure, Carey got a DNP in the 5th game due to his hip so if you look at the last 4 games then Buddy and Carey are equal at 47 minutes. My point, and I think anyone who as seen the players perform knows that Carey is twice the player Buddy is right now. I don't agree with all the takes but I think it is a very fair topic to debate.

Cuse!

I don't think there's any question that Carey is guard number 3 in the rotation.

But just to keep it all on the square, in his last 7 games, Carey has hit ONE three point shot (11% from 3) and is shooting 35% from the floor overall. 90 minutes played in those games, 12 turnovers, 11 assists, 6 steals (which is pretty good!). But Carey is slumping, too. Hat's off to the young man, because he's still making plays on defense, but he's not playing so well that people should be pissed at Buddy getting some run.

 

[CardiacCuse]

It's hard to lol when coming on here today, but you managed to make me do so. I had to point out that was what the like was for. I havent taken enough time to consider the Ban Buddy argument yet.

I might have missed it, but what Chuckwu tomfoolery were you mentioning? Sometimes just his presence comes across as such, to me. I'm not saying it's right, but for some reason I find the guy amusing at times.

I think buddy should still be in the rotation but he should have a shorter leash than he's had - a more historically consistent leash, if you will. there's a definite chance that by the end of year he's gotten over his yips and is a weapon - he has been trending up a bit in the shooting column. i think that is why JB is playing him - but i think it is not a warranted gamble he is making there...

RE tomfoolery - everything chukwu does is a bit goofy - 2 games ago, instead of completing an uncontested dunk, he managed to foul out and turn the ball over after catching the ball wide open under the hoop - that was insane. so yeah by 'tomfoolery' i'm referencing everything he does - but also there was a specific play in the GT game that was egregious: again, as is his wont, he was under the hoop - but this time on defense - somehow he managed to slam into hughes and hughes went to the bench holding his hip - later on hughes was seen on the bench still holding his hip - i think that might actually be why buddy played so much in the second half - elijah didn't do much after that. then, pon the play chukwu got hurt - he bungled soemthing then tried to save it while twisting and falling but turned it over to start an opponent fastbreak...smdh...the guy is a walking clownshow...

hughes has been papering over this team's bad shooting last couple of games - and since he had an off night- the lights came on and they werent ready. chukwu has managed recently to turn positive situations into bad ones, spectacularly - his most significant impact vs GT was injuring hughes and himself in the same game, imo -hopefully elijah is good for the Duke game - he's gonna need to ball out. hopefully JB realizes chukwu is a break glass only in emergencies player...it dumbofunded me that chukwu played so many minutes vs GT after the clemson game and that sidibe only played 4 minutes...

sidibe got screened on a lob dunk and couldnt block it then rode the bench the rest of the game - to the TEAM's DETRIMENT. he was on a VERY SHORT LEASH.

JB had a stinker in this one, imo.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You can rationalize it all you want, but your version seems quite contrived when you compare his 'privilege' versus that of every other non-performing, defensively-challenged freshman we've ever had.

Whatever. No one here is 'anti Buddy.' We all want him to succeed. But, he hasn't. And players who have done what he has done just haven't been put into game situations like this in the past. I don't even care about the nepotism component. He just isn't/hasn't ever demonstrated he's one of the five best options that could be put on the floor at this point.

I don't see anyone playing so well that he doesn't deserve a chance. Our other three guards are all shooting in the 20s from three (so is Buddy ...), two of the three of them can't make an assist, and the other has the movement of a 40 year old man right now.

 

[hungrychuck]

RE tomfoolery - everything chukwu does is a bit goofy - 2 games ago, instead of completing an uncontested dunk, he managed to foul out and turn the ball over after catching the ball wide open under the hoop - that was insane. so yeah by 'tomfoolery' i'm referencing everything he does - but also there was a specific play in the GT game that was egregious: again, as is his wont, he was under the hoop - but this time on defense - somehow he managed to slam into hughes and hughes went to the bench holding his hip - later on hughes was seen on the bench still holding his hip - i think that might actually be why buddy played so much in the second half - elijah didn't do much after that. then, pon the play chukwu got hurt - he bungled soemthing then tried to save it while twisting and falling but turned it over to start an opponent fastbreak...smdh...the guy is a walking clownshow...

hughes has been papering over this team's bad shooting last couple of games - and since he had an off night- the lights came on and they werent ready. chukwu has managed recently to turn positive situations into bad ones, spectacularly - his most significant impact vs GT was injuring hughes and himself in the same game, imo -hopefully elijah is good for the Duke game - he's gonna need to ball out. hopefully JB realizes chukwu is a break glass only in emergencies player...it dumbofunded me that chukwu played so many minutes vs GT after the clemson game and that sidibe only played 4 minutes...

sidibe got screened on a lob dunk and couldnt block it then rode the bench the rest of the game - to the TEAM's DETRIMENT. he was on a VERY SHORT LEASH.

JB had a stinker in this one, imo.[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to broadly defend Chukwu as some have, but I think you're being unfair here.

GT was trying a backdoor alley-oop and Hughes followed his man to the basket trying to deflect the pass. PC trailed back trying to do the same. They collided.

It was a basketball play. No more PC's fault than Hughes'.

 

[CaptainJ]

RE tomfoolery - everything chukwu does is a bit goofy - 2 games ago, instead of completing an uncontested dunk, he managed to foul out and turn the ball over after catching the ball wide open under the hoop - that was insane. so yeah by 'tomfoolery' i'm referencing everything he does - but also there was a specific play in the GT game that was egregious: again, as is his wont, he was under the hoop - but this time on defense - somehow he managed to slam into hughes and hughes went to the bench holding his hip - later on hughes was seen on the bench still holding his hip - i think that might actually be why buddy played so much in the second half - elijah didn't do much after that. then, pon the play chukwu got hurt - he bungled soemthing then tried to save it while twisting and falling but turned it over to start an opponent fastbreak...smdh...the guy is a walking clownshow...

hughes has been papering over this team's bad shooting last couple of games - and since he had an off night- the lights came on and they werent ready. chukwu has managed recently to turn positive situations into bad ones, spectacularly - his most significant impact vs GT was injuring hughes and himself in the same game, imo -hopefully elijah is good for the Duke game - he's gonna need to ball out. hopefully JB realizes chukwu is a break glass only in emergencies player...it dumbofunded me that chukwu played so many minutes vs GT after the clemson game and that sidibe only played 4 minutes...

sidibe got screened on a lob dunk and couldnt block it then rode the bench the rest of the game - to the TEAM's DETRIMENT. he was on a VERY SHORT LEASH.

JB had a stinker in this one, imo.

I'm not going to broadly defend Chukwu as some have, but I think you're being unfair here.

GT was trying a backdoor alley-oop and Hughes followed his man to the basket trying to deflect the pass. PC trailed back trying to do the same. They collided.

It was a basketball play. No more PC's fault than Hughes'.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what I think without reviewing it, but of course you'd say that, HungryChuckwu.

 

[CaptainJ]

I'm not sure how many on here may be familiar with TV's "King of the Hill". There was an episode where the underachieving(in his dad's eyes, and probably most of modern culture's as well) Bobby Hill was used as "the stick"(as opposed to the carrot), by his track coach to shame his teammates who were not putting forth their full effort. I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with the folks who were saying this was the case here with Buddy, but found this a rather humorous way of illustrating it with some characters that some may be familiar with.

This is the only clip I found of it, and it skips over the shaming part, to where Bobby was called on to perform in an actual emergency. The sound is (likely purposefully, to avoid getting noticed by copyright bots?) out of synch, but I still found it humorous, and possibly a metaphor for this team.

Is Buddy, "The Stick", like the one who lead this track team to a championship? (The coach thought it was a stroke of brilliance when he found "The Stick", and Bobby's classmates were suddenly chanting his new nickname).

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I don't see anyone playing so well that he doesn't deserve a chance. Our other three guards are all shooting in the 20s from three (so is Buddy ...), two of the three of them can't make an assist, and the other has the movement of a 40 year old man right now.

I can almost buy the sentiment of that, but Buddy was playing in the first half against Tech. The first half, when it was a close game, not when we were totally floundering. Again, remove the name from the back of the jersey, and think back through 40 years to when the 9th most played player got significant minutes in the first half of a close league game when there was no injury to compensate for. I can't remember it, and certainly not for a player who hasn't surprised anyone with on-court production or talent. It seems clear to me and a lot of poeple in the game threads that Buddy is being given an uncommon advantage. I don't expect JB to be fully unbiased with his child. I just am consistently surprised to see Buddy in the game when i do expect to see Marek or Carey more. Make of it what you like. I just don't think you can be considered objective to suggest that it's not 'weird.'

 

[Cusefan0307]

I can almost buy the sentiment of that, but Buddy was playing in the first half against Tech. The first half, when it was a close game, not when we were totally floundering. Again, remove the name from the back of the jersey, and think back through 40 years to when the 9th most played player got significant minutes in the first half of a close league game when there was no injury to compensate for. I can't remember it, and certainly not for a player who hasn't surprised anyone with on-court production or talent. It seems clear to me and a lot of poeple in the game threads that Buddy is being given an uncommon advantage. I don't expect JB to be fully unbiased with his child. I just am consistently surprised to see Buddy in the game when i do expect to see Marek or Carey more. Make of it what you like. I just don't think you can be considered objective to suggest that it's not 'weird.'

Marek played 28 minutes and they don’t even play the same position. You’re stretching it bringing his name into the argument.

 

[pfister1]

As to Buddy's "run", other than against Ga Tech, when he specifically got run in the hopes that he would be the someone to finally find the bottom of the net, here is his leash in the last four games that were highly contested:


Georgetown - 2 mins.
ODU - 3 mins.
Buffalo - DNP
Notre Dame - 4 mins.
Clemson - 5 mins.

Carey:
Georgetown - 23 mins.
ODU - 9 mins.
Buffalo - 10 mins.
Notre Dame - 11 mins
Clemson - 5 mins.

As to Buddy getting in the first half of games; seems to me we’re trying desperately to find someone to give us a real threat from deep. Most of us believe that is what Buddy was recruited to do, and neither Frank or Tyus or Carey have that rep as shooters and none of them are even hitting at a pedestrian rate right now so that is why he is giving him a shot or two early in games.

I don’t recall many years where we’ve been as offensively limited as the last two. It doesn’t surprise me that we’re seeing some different things (Marek starting at the 5, Buddy getting a chance to get it going).

 

[CousCuse]

It's simple. On Boeheim's team, you get playing time by your ability to understand and play the defense. Buddy knows the defense inside and out. Maybe he is still coming up to game speed at this level, but he is never going to be deer in headlights, blown assignment lost out there. That plus his stroke get him some PT.

 

[cuse10]

Watched the game. Watched all the games. In the last three(?), wasn't he in in the first half of those games? Again, a player who misses that many shots and is that slow afoot on defense and is that young has never previously earned first half, in-conference minutes. You can say all you want about throwing stuff against the wall, but we haven't thrown that kind of stuff against the wall in 40 years. What's different now?

And suggesting anyone 'looked ahead to Duke' is really kinda silly. Does 'looking ahead' only work one game ahead? Has Tyus not been a warrior for us? The kid lives and dies on that court. Questioning his 'heart' and priorities is... sad.

"If he couldn't play, he wouldn't be here?" Seriously? I'll never question him being given a scholarship. He will eventually be a good player for us. He just isn't now. And if he weren't named Boeheim and played HS somewhere else in the country, we would not have even scouted or recruited him.

They did look ahead. Sorry to break it to you. They thought they were going to roll over Tech and then got punched in the mouth. They quit.

The same Tyus that sulks on the court when he doesn't get the ball and doesn't get his way?

What's different now? The players aren't good. That's what's different now. This is why he's shaken his starting five up. They're being taken to the wire and losing non conference games to inferior opponents.

 

[CousCuse]

They did look ahead. Sorry to break it to you. They thought they were going to roll over Tech and then got punched in the mouth. They quit.

The same Tyus that sulks on the court when he doesn't get the ball and doesn't get his way?

What's different now? The players aren't good. That's what's different now. This is why he's shaken his starting five up. They're being taken to the wire and losing non conference games to inferior opponents.

No doubt the ACC scheduled it like this to help Duke.