Buddy

[Horn88]

That last sentence you could say about Andy Rautins and Brandon Triche and they won a lot of games here.

Also I’d wager that if he had a different last name you could care less that he played.

Of everything that came out of yesterday’s debacle this is the thing you want to hang your hat on?

This couldn't be further from the truth on Triche. Everyone in the country wanted him badly until he hurt his knee so teams played wait and see. He committed end of his junior year if I remember right and bounced back big but it was too late for everyone else because JB and staff never waivered and Triche was orange.

Buddy gets a longer leash than any other freshman in his position that I can remember and it's obvious why. Having said that, I don't think it's really made an impact in the W/L column for us one way or the other.

 

[CousCuse]

This couldn't be further from the truth on Triche. Everyone in the country wanted him badly until he hurt his knee so teams played wait and see. He committed end of his junior year if I remember right and bounced back big but it was too late for everyone else because JB and staff never waivered and Triche was orange.

Buddy gets a longer leash than any other freshman in his position that I can remember and it's obvious why. Having said that, I don't think it's really made an impact in the W/L column for us one way or the other.

None of the other freshman understood the defense well enough to not be a liability on the floor. When you run a zone defense, the offense probes for a weak spot or a failed cover and exploits that. In a zone defense, it is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[Horn88]

None of the other freshman understood the defense well enough to not be a liability on the floor. When you run a zone defense, the offense probes for a weak spot or a failed cover and exploits that. In a zone defense, it is only as strong as its weakest link.

So your argument is that Buddy is so good on defense that JB affords him a longer leash on offense than any other player in his position has recived?

I'm going to include this in each of my posts on this topic, I do not think Buddy's minutes have made one bit of a difference in our W/L record on either side. I do think he gets preferential treatment and I do think those two opinions can coexist and be factual.

 

[Millhouse]

Folks, Buddy is shooting 25% from the field and 24% from three.

Here's the list of recent rotation players with similar shooting numbers:

Frankie 15-16 - 29%/10%

That's the list. At least going as far back as '01.

Assuming Buddy continues to be a part of the rotation and maintains his current shooting percentages, he'll be the worst shooting rotation player we've had this century.

He's exceptional in an undesirable way.

For a guy with his limited athleticism to deserve playing time, he better be lights out shooting the ball

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For a guy with his limited athleticism to deserve playing time, he better be lights out shooting the ball

One would think.

Or a lock down defender.

 

[CousCuse]

For a guy with his limited athleticism to deserve playing time, he better be lights out shooting the ball

He would have to be lights out shooting the ball if the other guys ahead of him who supposedly could shoot the ball could actually shoot the ball.

 

[ar inj]

If a coach is going to play his 7th, 8th and 9th players, they are going to do it in the first half. You are not going to put them in for the first time in the middle of the second half. It also gives your starters a short break and a chance to see the game in the first half, especially if you know you are going to play them a full 20 in the second half.

Nobody could drop the ball in the ocean. JB was trying to catch lightning in a bottle. What he got was a lightning bug. Once GT saw he could shoot he was defended. When he followed up w/ two more misses I thought JB would go back to a starter, but I think Hughes was dinged up by that time.

Jack is, however, not cutting it on the defensive end. Slow rotations; he never stops penetration and was slow on the press and did not rotate back.

I could quibble about a few too many minutes on Saturday, but the game was lost by the starters.

And based on somebody's numbers above, it just looks like GT has our number, of course, so do too many other schools, and that is the real problem.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Nobody could drop the ball in the ocean. JB was trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

And to do that we turned to a guy shooting 25%.

 

[CardiacCuse]

RE tomfoolery - everything chukwu does is a bit goofy - 2 games ago, instead of completing an uncontested dunk, he managed to foul out and turn the ball over after catching the ball wide open under the hoop - that was insane. so yeah by 'tomfoolery' i'm referencing everything he does - but also there was a specific play in the GT game that was egregious: again, as is his wont, he was under the hoop - but this time on defense - somehow he managed to slam into hughes and hughes went to the bench holding his hip - later on hughes was seen on the bench still holding his hip - i think that might actually be why buddy played so much in the second half - elijah didn't do much after that. then, pon the play chukwu got hurt - he bungled soemthing then tried to save it while twisting and falling but turned it over to start an opponent fastbreak...smdh...the guy is a walking clownshow...

hughes has been papering over this team's bad shooting last couple of games - and since he had an off night- the lights came on and they werent ready. chukwu has managed recently to turn positive situations into bad ones, spectacularly - his most significant impact vs GT was injuring hughes and himself in the same game, imo -hopefully elijah is good for the Duke game - he's gonna need to ball out. hopefully JB realizes chukwu is a break glass only in emergencies player...it dumbofunded me that chukwu played so many minutes vs GT after the clemson game and that sidibe only played 4 minutes...

sidibe got screened on a lob dunk and couldnt block it then rode the bench the rest of the game - to the TEAM's DETRIMENT. he was on a VERY SHORT LEASH.

JB had a stinker in this one, imo.

I'm not going to broadly defend Chukwu as some have, but I think you're being unfair here.

GT was trying a backdoor alley-oop and Hughes followed his man to the basket trying to deflect the pass. PC trailed back trying to do the same. They collided.

It was a basketball play. No more PC's fault than Hughes'.[/QUOTE]
well it WAS a bang-bang play - but in my experience in basketball as a 5'7"pickup player (used to scrimmage with high school players who made state semis in virginia) and as a 30 year avid fan - the uncoordinated spazzes are the ones who get themselves and others injured more often than not. I always was nervous when a non-basketball player who doesnt know how to move etc on the court was out there with me - the bigger the person - the more nerve racking it was -cuz you never know how they are going to run into you or slam into you etc...so yeah it was indeed an accident and freak play - but if it was going to happen by anyone - it would likely be chukwu...and at the end of the day - a serious injury is only one "sorry, my fault" away - and at this point in chukwu's career, i think he is much more likely to cause a serious injury to one of his teammates than to be a postive difference-maker vs top teams.

for that reason alone, i'd make him 3rd string and play the other 2 5's ahead of him.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Marek played 28 minutes and they don’t even play the same position. You’re stretching it bringing his name into the argument.

What position does Marek play?
The point is, the 9th guy doesn't usually get off the bench before the 'sometimes starter' and (much) more experienced guy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What position does Marek play?
The point is, the 9th guy doesn't usually get off the bench before the 'sometimes starter' and (much) more experienced guy.

Uhhh when has Marek not played recently except when he's been in foul trouble? Not sure why you're bringing him into the argument. Marek played the majority of the game Saturday.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Uhhh when has Marek not played recently except when he's been in foul trouble? Not sure why you're bringing him into the argument. Marek played the majority of the game Saturday.

OMG, it's not about whether Marek plays or not. Jeezus, you're arguing something without even understanding what you're arguing against.

 

[phil77]

Buddy should be getting Brawell type minutes that is it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

OMG, it's not about whether Marek plays or not. Jeezus, you're arguing something without even understanding what you're arguing against.

You’re the one who posted you “expect to see Marek or Carey” in your post above.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You’re the one who posted you “expect to see Marek or Carey” in your post above.

You got that part right. Why can't you get the meaning of it?

 

[cuseinseattle]

That last sentence you could say about Andy Rautins and Brandon Triche and they won a lot of games here.

Also I’d wager that if he had a different last name you could care less that he played.

Of everything that came out of yesterday’s debacle this is the thing you want to hang your hat on?

That is what I find so strange. We are 7 for 33 from deep and Buddy is 3 of 8. So we shoot 15% from deep outside of him and he is the problem. He was put in the game because he is a good shooter despite his percentage to start the year and hopefully he can hit a few and space the floor to make driving easier for the players that our struggling to shoot like Tyus/Eli. What about that is hard to understand?

 

[cuseinseattle]

I can almost buy the sentiment of that, but Buddy was playing in the first half against Tech. The first half, when it was a close game, not when we were totally floundering. Again, remove the name from the back of the jersey, and think back through 40 years to when the 9th most played player got significant minutes in the first half of a close league game when there was no injury to compensate for. I can't remember it, and certainly not for a player who hasn't surprised anyone with on-court production or talent. It seems clear to me and a lot of poeple in the game threads that Buddy is being given an uncommon advantage. I don't expect JB to be fully unbiased with his child. I just am consistently surprised to see Buddy in the game when i do expect to see Marek or Carey more. Make of it what you like. I just don't think you can be considered objective to suggest that it's not 'weird.'

What I think is weird is the fact I felt Carey was a pretty good shooter coming in and he has really struggled. I also though he would be a shot in the arm pick up the pace guard and he has not been that.

 

[MSOrange]

What I think is weird is the fact I felt Carey was a pretty good shooter coming in and he has really struggled. I also though he would be a shot in the arm pick up the pace guard and he has not been that.

Carey's form really needs some work also imho. Not a pretty outside shot.

 

[Ghost]

What I think is weird is the fact I felt Carey was a pretty good shooter coming in and he has really struggled. I also though he would be a shot in the arm pick up the pace guard and he has not been that.

Eh, he should have a green light if he was a pretty good shooter.

I guess what's hard to understand is that people would make the same argument for playing guy's like BJ Johnson and get laughed at by people who are not laughing any more inexplicably - even when we needed shooting and sucked at basketball then.

My argument is always the same - I'm okay with Buddy playing as needed, but I've always felt like playing these dudes will pay long term dividends. Play Buddy all you want - other guys are struggling, and we suck. I like potential - let's roll the dice. Other people seem to sway back and forth and pretty much argue both sides depending on the year/situation/what JB is doing - which isn't really a fair way to argue. Then they huff and puff that nobody understands basketball but them...

JB shredded other dudes shooting around 20%....and went straight up red light. I remember all the encouraging words he had for Patterson, who had a rep as a shooter coming out of school...

"I can shoot 15 percent right now," Boeheim said after the game. "I'm 70 years old. But after 22 games you have to look at the numbers and say, ‘You know what? You can’t make it,’” Boeheim said, raising his voice, before saying Patterson is needed for penetration on offense and activity on defense.

“… Let’s do that. Let’s stick with that. Let’s do what we can, let’s not do what we think, what we dream we can do. That’s not dreamland out there, it’s reality. Let’s do what you can do and help your team.”

At the time of that quote, Patterson was 8-48, Buddy was 8-39.

Buddy is at 23% after catching fire last game....even Patterson shot 31% as a Frosh. So, I can't really go crazy on people that want to put forward an argument that the treatment is slightly different. Patterson was better probably in every other aspect of his development at that point. Defense, driving, passing etc...

 

[OttoMets]

Eh, he should have a green light if he was a pretty good shooter.

I guess what's hard to understand is that people would make the same argument for playing guy's like BJ Johnson and get laughed at by people who are not laughing any more inexplicably - even when we needed shooting and sucked at basketball then.

My argument is always the same - I'm okay with Buddy playing as needed, but I've always felt like playing these dudes will pay long term dividends. Play Buddy all you want - other guys are struggling, and we suck. I like potential - let's roll the dice. Other people seem to sway back and forth and pretty much argue both sides depending on the year/situation/what JB is doing - which isn't really a fair way to argue.

JB shredded other dudes shooting around 20%...and went straight up red light. I remember all the encouraging words he had for Patterson, who had a rep as a shooter coming out of school...

"I can shoot 15 percent right now," Boeheim said after the game. "I'm 70 years old. But after 22 games you have to look at the numbers and say, ‘You know what? You can’t make it,’” Boeheim said, raising his voice, before saying Patterson is needed for penetration on offense and activity on defense.

“… Let’s do that. Let’s stick with that. Let’s do what we can, let’s not do what we think, what we dream we can do. That’s not dreamland out there, it’s reality. Let’s do what you can do and help your team.”

At the time of that quote, Patterson was 8-48, Buddy was 8-39.

Buddy is at 23% after catching fire last game...even Patterson shot 31% as a Frosh. So, I can't really go crazy on people that want to put forward an argument that the treatment is slightly different. Patterson was better probably in every other aspect of his development at that point. Defense, driving, passing etc...

Good post. I've got no problem with an expanded bench, and if Boeheim wants to play his son, fine. But damned if that doesn't make a lot of sense in light of kids like Demetris Nichols being glued to the bench in previous years.

 

[orange44]

As far as Buddy goes he needs several off season(s) hard core speed/agility workouts. His shot will come in time and until some of our veteran players are actually more consistent shooting from the outside he will be playing some minutes. As we all know, we have some major problems in other areas of the team and I am sorry to say it does not look bright into the near future. Something has to change whether it is the coach, the defense or more than likely the attitude of the team or it will be an extremely long couple of winters ahead!!

 

[cuseinseattle]

Eh, he should have a green light if he was a pretty good shooter.

I guess what's hard to understand is that people would make the same argument for playing guy's like BJ Johnson and get laughed at by people who are not laughing any more inexplicably - even when we needed shooting and sucked at basketball then.

My argument is always the same - I'm okay with Buddy playing as needed, but I've always felt like playing these dudes will pay long term dividends. Play Buddy all you want - other guys are struggling, and we suck. I like potential - let's roll the dice. Other people seem to sway back and forth and pretty much argue both sides depending on the year/situation/what JB is doing - which isn't really a fair way to argue. Then they huff and puff that nobody understands basketball but them...

JB shredded other dudes shooting around 20%...and went straight up red light. I remember all the encouraging words he had for Patterson, who had a rep as a shooter coming out of school...

"I can shoot 15 percent right now," Boeheim said after the game. "I'm 70 years old. But after 22 games you have to look at the numbers and say, ‘You know what? You can’t make it,’” Boeheim said, raising his voice, before saying Patterson is needed for penetration on offense and activity on defense.

“… Let’s do that. Let’s stick with that. Let’s do what we can, let’s not do what we think, what we dream we can do. That’s not dreamland out there, it’s reality. Let’s do what you can do and help your team.”

At the time of that quote, Patterson was 8-48, Buddy was 8-39.

Buddy is at 23% after catching fire last game...even Patterson shot 31% as a Frosh. So, I can't really go crazy on people that want to put forward an argument that the treatment is slightly different. Patterson was better probably in every other aspect of his development at that point. Defense, driving, passing etc...

Buddy shot close to 50% from deep in the EYBL against the best HS kids in the country. Comparing him to Patterson makes no sense to me. He has struggled to start the year and that has been acknowledged by everyone. There is no need to post his percentage to this point. My 4 year old daughter could watch Patterson shoot and Buddy shoot and tell me which kid was a shooter. The reality is that this team has no good 3 point shooters from the guard spot and if we really need that because Eli isn't hitting then guess what Buddy gets run. It makes total sense to me despite his obvious limitations. We can agree to disagree I guess.

 

[cuseinseattle]

As far as Buddy goes he needs several off season(s) hard core speed/agility workouts. His shot will come in time and until some of our veteran players are actually more consistent shooting from the outside he will be playing some minutes. As we all know, we have some major problems in other areas of the team and I am sorry to say it does not look bright into the near future. Something has to change whether it is the coach, the defense or more than likely the attitude of the team or it will be an extremely long couple of winters ahead!!

We have Goodine and Quincy coming in. I think we are getting away from recruiting for the zone and starting to recruit more for offense so the future is brighter than people want to believe at this moment.

 

[Ghost]

Buddy shot close to 50% from deep in the EYBL against the best HS kids in the country. Comparing him to Patterson makes no sense to me. He has struggled to start the year and that has been acknowledged by everyone. There is no need to post his percentage to this point. My 4 year old daughter could watch Patterson shoot and Buddy shoot and tell me which kid was a shooter. The reality is that this team has no good 3 point shooters from the guard spot and if we really need that because Eli isn't hitting then guess what Buddy gets run. It makes total sense to me despite his obvious limitations. We can agree to disagree I guess.

Is that the same league that "red light" Jalen Carey shot 45% from deep in? If it is, and he was shooting a higher percentage from three until last game, shouldn't we unleash him?

I mean, he was known as a shooter coming out, shot over 38% on over 300 attempts his last two years of D1 ball....I mean, I guess that makes him not the worst shooter ever.

Did you happen to look up Patterson's HS stats before making that point? Just curious. I bet you didn't. Struggled to start the year, young player, sounds like traditional red light territory, no??????

Who were all of our good three point shooters the years Patterson and BJ were playing?

 

[orange44]

We have Goodine and Quincy coming in. I think we are getting away from recruiting for the zone and starting to recruit more for offense so the future is brighter than people want to believe at this moment.

Sounds good and I hope you are correct I respect your summary. We also need more of a physical presence inside so hopefully we will pick up several players. By the way, I am a long time fan who looks at the glass half full but this team there something terribly missing. I truly hope we can turn it around by the end of the season.