Buddy's minutes

[CuseFaninVT]

As JB said, he rather play a tired Buddy or JGIII than a player who couldn't perform as well.

He also said it was incredible what Buddy was able to do late in the game after all those minutes.

Really hope we can get Buddy some reduced minutes against Lehigh and Cornell. Heck, even Gtown has the possibility of being a blowout considering Dartmouth beat them. The idea of all those minutes scares me toward the end of the season. Fresher legs are always better, despite what JB thinks.

 

[rrlbees]

As JB said, he rather play a tired Buddy or JGIII than a player who couldn't perform as well.

He also said it was incredible what Buddy was able to do late in the game after all those minutes.

That’s always been JB. True story. I remember talking to him one time at a BET or NCAAT game while watching other games. I asked him why doesn’t he play Brower a little more to give DC more rest. His response was that DC at 80% was better than Brower at 100%. So that kind of thinking has been there a long time.

 

[storange]

That’s always been JB. True story. I remember talking to him one time at a BET or NCAAT game while watching other games. I asked him why doesn’t he play Brower a little more to give DC more rest. His response was that DC at 80% was better than Brower at 100%. So that kind of thinking has been there a long time.

Yep, I'm sure we could reproduce this same thread from last year and the year before and each year back to the late 70s.

 

[djcon57]

To answer your question, how many good recruits are going to want to come to 'Cuse knowing they will only get minor minutes playing behind Buddy??

this keeps coming up and is so bizarre.

the vast majority of good teams somehow have more than 3 scholarship players on their bench despite have having star players.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We can play Joe at the 2 and Symir at the point for at least 2-3 minutes a half. Joe is pretty good off the ball. If you don't want Symir out there with Frank or Benny then just stagger the subs.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We can play Joe at the 2 and Symir at the point for at least 2-3 minutes a half.

No, we can't. Dangerous to even think about.

People forget this, but back in the 92-93 season JB tried something similar on the road at Providence and a Hellmouth opened up by the Syracuse bench resulting in the supposed death of multiple players, students, and spectators. Really tragic end to Scott Mccorkle's career. Blows my mind people forget about "the Rhode Island Hell Hole."

Anyway, I say supposed death because we don't actually know what happens when people fall into a Hellmouth. We only know that nobody has ever returned.

Honestly... it's probably better if they're dead. Who knows what kind of horrific life one lives in the Hellmouth.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Yep, I'm sure we could reproduce this same thread from last year and the year before and each year back to the late 70s.

There's a difference between playing someone a bit more or less, but to constantly have a bench either short-handed or populated with a handful of projects and walk-ons is a recent development and is a weird point of pride for some people.

 

[MDCuse]

As JB said, he rather play a tired Buddy or JGIII than a player who couldn't perform as well.

He also said it was incredible what Buddy was able to do late in the game after all those minutes.

I mean, that's an indictment on Jim. In 3 years he hasn't been able to find someone or develop someone that can take even 10 minutes from Buddy?!?! Speaks to Jim and where this program is.

 

[Alsacs]

I mean, that's an indictment on Jim. In 3 years he hasn't been able to find someone or develop someone that can take even 10 minutes from Buddy?!?! Speaks to Jim and where this program is.

It’s been a sore spot on this board previous years.
JB eliminated it as a talking discussion this season though.

 

[storange]

There's a difference between playing someone a bit more or less, but to constantly have a bench either short-handed or populated with a handful of projects and walk-ons is a recent development and is a weird point of pride for some people.

My post was not an opinion. It was a statement of historical record.

 

[DilemaCuse]

To answer your question, how many good recruits are going to want to come to 'Cuse knowing they will only get minor minutes playing behind Buddy??

Not disagreeing, but there in lies the problem. When a kid doesnt come because they know he wont get minutes over that guy (Buddy in this example) that guy is usually worthy of dominating the minutes and is so good they are gone in 1 or 2 years, not staying 4. This results in the position not being recruited for not just 1 but multiple cycles. Then when Buddy leaves, there has been no one groomed behind him to take his spot so now you have to rebuild with a Fr, or try a reboot with a new transfer, just not ideal for next year or this year for that matter.

 

[MDCuse]

Not disagreeing, but there in lies the problem. When a kid doesnt come because they know he wont get minutes over that guy (Buddy in this example) that guy is usually worthy of dominating the minutes and is so good they are gone in 1 or 2 years, not staying 4. This results in the position not being recruited for not just 1 but multiple cycles. Then when Buddy leaves, there has been no one groomed behind him to take his spot so now you have to rebuild with a Fr, or try a reboot with a new transfer, just not ideal for next year or this year for that matter.

BINGO!!

 

[malpearl31]

Not disagreeing, but there in lies the problem. When a kid doesnt come because they know he wont get minutes over that guy (Buddy in this example) that guy is usually worthy of dominating the minutes and is so good they are gone in 1 or 2 years, not staying 4. This results in the position not being recruited for not just 1 but multiple cycles. Then when Buddy leaves, there has been no one groomed behind him to take his spot so now you have to rebuild with a Fr, or try a reboot with a new transfer, just not ideal for next year or this year for that matter.

This isn't just a Syracuse problem, though, is it? Can't you say the exact same thing is happening right now at a lot of different schools - like Villanova, for example? They haven't been able to land any top PG prospects since Gillespie took over that role - he basically plays 35 minutes every night. He's Jay Wright's guy, no question about it. And when Gillespie is finally gone next year, Wright will either have to either re-load with a true freshman or go out and get a PG transfer.

Carolina has been dealing with this lately, too - they had back-to-back freshman point guards with Coby White ('18-'19) and then Cole Anthony ('19-'20), and not a lot of depth behind them - because what top-level kid wanted to go to North Carolina and ride the bench behind those guys? And when Anthony got hurt, they had nobody on the bench and their worst year in a long time.

I just think that the world of college basketball is way different now than it was even just 5 or 10 years ago. Transferring is much easier and much more common - and most kids simply don't want to go to a top-tier school and wait their turn for 2 years. We're just not gonna see many career trajectories like Lazarus Sims' any more...

And for what it's worth, most of our recent transfers haven't gotten more minutes at their new schools. One could argue that Brycen, Jalen, Woody, Moyer, or even Taurean would have all been better off staying at Syracuse - because they likely would have gotten more minutes in successive years as they improved, and as Boeheim trusted them more.

 

[DilemaCuse]

This isn't just a Syracuse problem, though, is it? Can't you say the exact same thing is happening right now at a lot of different schools - like Villanova, for example? They haven't been able to land any top PG prospects since Gillespie took over that role - he basically plays 35 minutes every night. He's Jay Wright's guy, no question about it. And when Gillespie is finally gone next year, Wright will either have to either re-load with a true freshman or go out and get a PG transfer.

Carolina has been dealing with this lately, too - they had back-to-back freshman point guards with Coby White ('18-'19) and then Cole Anthony ('19-'20), and not a lot of depth behind them - because what top-level kid wanted to go to North Carolina and ride the bench behind those guys? And when Anthony got hurt, they had nobody on the bench and their worst year in a long time.

Good examples, but Villanova is currently ranked #6 and has 2 recent titles, compared to SU that has been bubbling off and on for 6-7 years. Hard to critique Jay Wright as Villanova has blown by SU as a program in those recent years. Without analyzing their recruiting, I bet Jay has a transition plan in place.

Carolina, yeah they have been up and down but with Roy's frenetic pace, he would rotate 5 guards during a game to push tempo. You can bet in most years they will have more than 1 shooting guard or 1 point guard in their rotation somehow unlike SU these days.

 

[FrancoPizza]

No, we can't. Dangerous to even think about.

People forget this, but back in the 92-93 season JB tried something similar on the road at Providence and a Hellmouth opened up by the Syracuse bench resulting in the supposed death of multiple players, students, and spectators. Really tragic end to Scott Mccorkle's career. Blows my mind people forget about "the Rhode Island Hell Hole."

Anyway, I say supposed death because we don't actually know what happens when people fall into a Hellmouth. We only know that nobody has ever returned.

Honestly... it's probably better if they're dead. Who knows what kind of horrific life one lives in the Hellmouth.

What is a hell mouth? Millennial slang for sinkhole?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

No, we can't. Dangerous to even think about.

People forget this, but back in the 92-93 season JB tried something similar on the road at Providence and a Hellmouth opened up by the Syracuse bench resulting in the supposed death of multiple players, students, and spectators. Really tragic end to Scott Mccorkle's career. Blows my mind people forget about "the Rhode Island Hell Hole."

Anyway, I say supposed death because we don't actually know what happens when people fall into a Hellmouth. We only know that nobody has ever returned.

Honestly... it's probably better if they're dead. Who knows what kind of horrific life one lives in the Hellmouth.

They end up in LaBrea in 10,000 BC.

 

[Sherman20]

Confused. Who exactly was the option "we didn't want to play?" The back up PG who averaged 21 mpg and was shooting 3-19 from 3 going into the post season. Time to move on, isn't it?

Kadary at PG and move Joe over to shooting guard. We did that last year when Buddy needed a couple minutes of rest.

 

[MDCuse]

This isn't just a Syracuse problem, though, is it? Can't you say the exact same thing is happening right now at a lot of different schools - like Villanova, for example? They haven't been able to land any top PG prospects since Gillespie took over that role - he basically plays 35 minutes every night. He's Jay Wright's guy, no question about it. And when Gillespie is finally gone next year, Wright will either have to either re-load with a true freshman or go out and get a PG transfer.

Carolina has been dealing with this lately, too - they had back-to-back freshman point guards with Coby White ('18-'19) and then Cole Anthony ('19-'20), and not a lot of depth behind them - because what top-level kid wanted to go to North Carolina and ride the bench behind those guys? And when Anthony got hurt, they had nobody on the bench and their worst year in a long time.

I just think that the world of college basketball is way different now than it was even just 5 or 10 years ago. Transferring is much easier and much more common - and most kids simply don't want to go to a top-tier school and wait their turn for 2 years. We're just not gonna see many career trajectories like Lazarus Sims' any more...

And for what it's worth, most of our recent transfers haven't gotten more minutes at their new schools. One could argue that Brycen, Jalen, Woody, Moyer, or even Taurean would have all been better off staying at Syracuse - because they likely would have gotten more minutes in successive years as they improved, and as Boeheim trusted them more.

The comparison doesn't work when you compare Jim's resume to Jay Wright's over the last decade. That includes recruiting as well. Jay can recruit and coach circles around Jim at this point.

 

[MDCuse]

What is a hell mouth? Millennial slang for sinkhole?

Hell mouth is what I got watching the second half of the Indiana game

 

[Cusefan0307]

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What is a hell mouth? Millennial slang for sinkhole?

Thanks to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Hellmouth is millennial slang for Hellmouth.

 

[Bayside44]

Good examples, but Villanova is currently ranked #6 and has 2 recent titles, compared to SU that has been bubbling off and on for 6-7 years. Hard to critique Jay Wright as Villanova has blown by SU as a program in those recent years. Without analyzing their recruiting, I bet Jay has a transition plan in place.

Carolina, yeah they have been up and down but with Roy's frenetic pace, he would rotate 5 guards during a game to push tempo. You can bet in most years they will have more than 1 shooting guard or 1 point guard in their rotation somehow unlike SU these days.

They've lost guards too - Seven Woods and Platek off the top of my head. The normal solid depth type guys.

 

[Alsacs]

They've lost guards too - Seven Woods and Platek off the top of my head. The normal solid depth type guys.

Every program loses players.
Jim Boeheim has us this season where nobody can complain about playing time.
He is smart.
When players struggled previous years and weren’t playing well we had options to play over them.

The idea that Buddy Boeheim was recruited to be a 3 year 35+ MPG is a joke. Same for the idea that Joe Girard was recruited to be a starter for 4 years.
JG freshman here he played because JB went all-in shooting and “spacing”.

If we had superstars I get not over recruiting but Villanova wouldn’t leave players who aren’t stars unchallenged for 3 years.

After BB sophomore year and Joe freshman year we should have actually used more than 3 guards in the rotation.

This discussion can’t happen on here because people want to defend every single thing the HC does.

 

[malpearl31]

The comparison doesn't work when you compare Jim's resume to Jay Wright's over the last decade. That includes recruiting as well. Jay can recruit and coach circles around Jim at this point.

That wasn't what my reply was addressing, though - I have no interest in arguing about which coach is better or who can recruit circles around the other guy.

I was specifically addressing the criticism that JB plays his starters too many minutes and doesn't have a deep bench - and that those coaching philosophies are absurd and are holding the program back. My point is that a lot of coaches (including Jay Wright!) share JB's philosophy of playing your starters/your best guys heavy minutes - and that philosophy can obviously lead to great success, as both Jay Wright and JB have proven. And a lot of programs (including UNC) have had depth issues recently relating to the fact that most kids these days want to play heavy minutes right away.

 

[DilemaCuse]

They've lost guards too - Seven Woods and Platek off the top of my head. The normal solid depth type guys.

Yeah and those guys were role players who were available and in the rotation. SU doesnt have that in the event of an emergency, thats the problem