Buddy's minutes

[DilemaCuse]

Every program loses players.
Jim Boeheim has us this season where nobody can complain about playing time.
He is smart.
When players struggled previous years and weren’t playing well we had options to play over them.

The idea that Buddy Boeheim was recruited to be a 3 year 35+ MPG is a joke. Same for the idea that Joe Girard was recruited to be a starter for 4 years.
JG freshman here he played because JB went all-in shooting and “spacing”.

If we had superstars I get not over recruiting but Villanova wouldn’t leave players who aren’t stars unchallenged for 3 years.

After BB sophomore year and Joe freshman year we should have actually used more than 3 guards in the rotation.

This discussion can’t happen on here because people want to defend every single thing the HC does.

Bingo, and the ironic thing is Joe wasnt expected to be a 4 year starter at PG, it happened because Carey was such a bust, another miss by the staff

 

[DilemaCuse]

That wasn't what my reply was addressing, though - I have no interest in arguing about which coach is better or who can recruit circles around the other guy.

I was specifically addressing the criticism that JB plays his starters too many minutes and doesn't have a deep bench - and that those coaching philosophies are absurd and are holding the program back. My point is that a lot of coaches (including Jay Wright!) share JB's philosophy of playing your starters/your best guys heavy minutes - and that philosophy can obviously lead to great success, as both Jay Wright and JB have proven. And a lot of programs (including UNC) have had depth issues recently relating to the fact that most kids these days want to play heavy minutes right away.

I hear what your saying but that wasn't really my point. I get usually starters are going to play the minutes. Its the fact that they don't have another capable SG or scorer on the roster that they are developing for when Buddy leaves, or a guy who is capable in the event Buddy goes down. Its the concept of depth and having some experience for next year when Buddy is gone and how they have neglected this concept.

 

[721Comstock]

I hear what your saying but that wasn't really my point. I get usually starters are going to play the minutes. Its the fact that they don't have another capable SG or scorer on the roster that they are developing for when Buddy leaves, or a guy who is capable in the event Buddy goes down. Its the concept of depth and having some experience for next year when Buddy is gone and how they have neglected this concept.

They haven't neglected it.

They haven't been successful in addressing it.

Those are 2 entirely different things.
Your #narrative is that it is on purpose somehow.

 

[Bayside44]

Every program loses players.
Jim Boeheim has us this season where nobody can complain about playing time.
He is smart.
When players struggled previous years and weren’t playing well we had options to play over them.

The idea that Buddy Boeheim was recruited to be a 3 year 35+ MPG is a joke. Same for the idea that Joe Girard was recruited to be a starter for 4 years.
JG freshman here he played because JB went all-in shooting and “spacing”.

If we had superstars I get not over recruiting but Villanova wouldn’t leave players who aren’t stars unchallenged for 3 years.

After BB sophomore year and Joe freshman year we should have actually used more than 3 guards in the rotation.

This discussion can’t happen on here because people want to defend every single thing the HC does.

JG started because Carey ended up being a bust. If I recall JB wasn't really keen on JG as a recruit. Isn't Buddy a first team all conference guy?

We had a guy that was a 25 minute plus type but he decided to play that same role somewhere else.

Not sure anyone wants to hang around here or anywhere for 10-12 minutes anymore.

 

[pearl31]

COLLEGE KIDS DONT GET TIRED

 

[MDCuse]

That wasn't what my reply was addressing, though - I have no interest in arguing about which coach is better or who can recruit circles around the other guy.

I was specifically addressing the criticism that JB plays his starters too many minutes and doesn't have a deep bench - and that those coaching philosophies are absurd and are holding the program back. My point is that a lot of coaches (including Jay Wright!) share JB's philosophy of playing your starters/your best guys heavy minutes - and that philosophy can obviously lead to great success, as both Jay Wright and JB have proven. And a lot of programs (including UNC) have had depth issues recently relating to the fact that most kids these days want to play heavy minutes right away.

But the issues are connected. You can't argue "I have to play my best players 40 minutes" without addressing that there is no one on the team that can take minutes to give him a rest. Plus, if you look at the MPG leaders so far this year, Buddy is 5th in the nation (again) and Nova has nobody in the top 50.

 

[Consigliere]

Kadary at PG and move Joe over to shooting guard. We did that last year when Buddy needed a couple minutes of rest.

Just didn't get the "we didn't want to play reference." The backup PG got significant minutes and Braswell was in the rotation at the end of the year. Guys played who deserved to play. Just no one who could take minutes away from Buddy, particularly down the stretch.

 

[Consigliere]

Every program loses players.
Jim Boeheim has us this season where nobody can complain about playing time.
He is smart.
When players struggled previous years and weren’t playing well we had options to play over them.

The idea that Buddy Boeheim was recruited to be a 3 year 35+ MPG is a joke. Same for the idea that Joe Girard was recruited to be a starter for 4 years.
JG freshman here he played because JB went all-in shooting and “spacing”.

If we had superstars I get not over recruiting but Villanova wouldn’t leave players who aren’t stars unchallenged for 3 years.

After BB sophomore year and Joe freshman year we should have actually used more than 3 guards in the rotation.

This discussion can’t happen on here because people want to defend every single thing the HC does.

JG played as a freshman begause PG1 and PG2 were given the reins and flamed out.

 

[Consigliere]

But the issues are connected. You can't argue "I have to play my best players 40 minutes" without addressing that there is no one on the team that can take minutes to give him a rest. Plus, if you look at the MPG leaders so far this year, Buddy is 5th in the nation (again) and Nova has nobody in the top 50.

Wright played his bench 6 minutes total in the overtime loss to UCLA. That might be a function of Nova enjoying some comfortable wins so far.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Just didn't get the "we didn't want to play reference." The backup PG got significant minutes and Braswell was in the rotation at the end of the year. Guys played who deserved to play. Just no one who could take minutes away from Buddy, particularly down the stretch.

I really don't believe for a moment that Joe sliding to the 2G to give Buddy 3 minutes of rest a half would have changed the outcome of many games.

 

[Alsacs]

JG started because Carey ended up being a bust. If I recall JB wasn't really keen on JG as a recruit. Isn't Buddy a first team all conference guy?

We had a guy that was a 25 minute plus type but he decided to play that same role somewhere else.

Not sure anyone wants to hang around here or anywhere for 10-12 minutes anymore.

Buddy hasn’t been on an All-ACC team in the previous 2 years.
The hype is he was special in March last year.
His season as a whole wasn’t all-ACC level.
I think he will make an all-ACC team this year but he isn’t this dominant player the hype you are suggesting proves.
He is a weapon but should be better. His shooting will get better but he has never shot 40% from 3 in a season. He is a good player he shouldn’t have gone 3 years undisputed SG 35+ MPg. He has games he is off but never sat.

This year we have no options.

For JG. We recruited him hard. Jalen Carey struggles 2 FRIGGIN GAMES and was sent to Siberia. Including a game against Virginia.
Carry isn’t a great player but our staff recruited him.

Why is Joe going to be a 4 year starter. I won’t even bring up the fact he wasn’t the best Pg last year but that didn’t matter. The standard that took the starting PG job from Carey didn’t apply to JG last year.

No one wants to hang around because they see what I am saying.

 

[Alsacs]

JG played as a freshman begause PG1 and PG2 were given the reins and flamed out.

2 games into the season.
The guards struggled against Virginia who we didn’t score 40 against and Seattle.
2 games and they were sent to Siberia.

This is totally forgotten. Joe Girard should not be a 4/5 year starting PG unchallenged.
When the guy last year was better and JG struggled their was no change in the starting lineup like when Carey struggled in 2 games.

He was benched so he got surgery and left.

 

[Alsacs]

Wright played his bench 6 minutes total in the overtime loss to UCLA. That might be a function of Nova enjoying some comfortable wins so far.

That may be a function of the fact the Villanova starters ARE GOOD.

Our starters are not at the level of Villanova’s.

 

[malpearl31]

I hear what your saying but that wasn't really my point. I get usually starters are going to play the minutes. Its the fact that they don't have another capable SG or scorer on the roster that they are developing for when Buddy leaves, or a guy who is capable in the event Buddy goes down. Its the concept of depth and having some experience for next year when Buddy is gone and how they have neglected this concept.

I feel like we're kind of talking past one another right now... I hear what you're saying with regard to the fact that we don't have depth behind Buddy at the SG position. I wish we had great depth at every position, too.

But we would have had depth if guys like Brycen or Woody had stayed. Unfortunately, both of those guys chose to transfer after their freshman year, with the hope that they would play more minutes at another school. (And interestingly, neither guy has really earned more minutes at his new school.)

JB has always played his starters heavy minutes, and I'm not holding my breath that he's going to change his ways before he retires (even though I would probably play the bench more if I was a D-1 coach).

I think that to be fair, you have to acknowledge that it's a lot more difficult in 2021 for any program to hold onto "the capable SG or scorer" as a depth guy, if he's only going to get 10 minutes per game. Those kids are transferring now, rather than waiting their turn for big minutes (like a Demetris Nichols, for example).

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

This was a big problem Buddy’s sophomore and junior season and contributed to his slow starts. Even as a freshman 40 mins against Baylor was a disservice.

To his credit he’s in good enough shape to handle it this year.

We are so thin and Williams is so poor across the board at basketball right now that I want to see Symir and Joe with Buddy up to the 3 when we sub in Torrence.

We escaped Indiana but I think we will lose a couple ACC games that should have been easy wins because there is almost nothing after our starting 5.

 

[Fly Rodder]

But we would have had depth if guys like Brycen or Woody had stayed. Unfortunately, both of those guys chose to transfer after their freshman year, with the hope that they would play more minutes at another school. (And interestingly, neither guy has really earned more minutes at his new school.)

This is a separate problem that I'm not sure has an easy answer. We really don't have a firm understanding of why they transferred. If they wanted more minutes and were promised more minutes, wouldn't they be super pissed at their new school right now? That's not a smart way to run a program either. I wouldn't leave one situation where I didn't have a path to minutes for another situation without a guaranteed path to minutes ... unless the minutes weren't the only issue.

 

[MikeSU02]

Buddy has played 35mpg and 36 mpg in the last two years. +35mpg is what I expected. Not saying I agree, but this was as certain as the sun rising in the east.

Separately, I will re-iterate before I post the next thing: I fully expected Buddy to be All ACC in some capacity and a long shot 2nd rounder for the draft (but money would be he would not get drafted). That's how I see his long term prospects even tho we need him all day long during this year. Love Buddy. He's fantastic. The dude squares his shot as well as Klay Thompson does, legitimately.

We are strong arming wins right now. We don't have an ACC level PG that can make life easier for Buddy (or, for that matter, Joe if he were to be off the ball).

But, whether these numbers are because they are in tough positions (which I believe is a big part of it) and part if it is we just overrate our own players (please see me convincing myself that Qadir Copeland will be a lottery pick), these are their basic career shooting stats:

Buddy: FG: 41%, 3PT: 37% (rounding up from 36.5)
Joe: FG: 36%, 3PT: 35%

Now think about how dependent we are on them and then having Symir as their backup.

Again, I've hammered Joe forever. That's my own piece. Regardless of how they got to those numbers, that's what we're working with.

Buddy has elevated, clearly. He's a great offensive player in a tough situation. All credit to him, honestly. Joe is what he is. IMO, he's not a PG at all. Ideally he is an off guard and secondary ball handler that is coming off screens, but that's not for me to decide.

Point being, the train is on the tracks for our guard minutes. Is what it is. We'll win some games. Lose some games. It will be tough a lot of the time. But at least we'll see a lot of threes going up. Fingers crossed we keep grinding out the wins.

Finally, screw Indiana. Always.

 

[Bayside44]

Buddy hasn’t been on an All-ACC team in the previous 2 years.
The hype is he was special in March last year.
His season as a whole wasn’t all-ACC level.
I think he will make an all-ACC team this year but he isn’t this dominant player the hype you are suggesting proves.
He is a weapon but should be better. His shooting will get better but he has never shot 40% from 3 in a season. He is a good player he shouldn’t have gone 3 years undisputed SG 35+ MPg. He has games he is off but never sat.

This year we have no options.

For JG. We recruited him hard. Jalen Carey struggles 2 FRIGGIN GAMES and was sent to Siberia. Including a game against Virginia.
Carry isn’t a great player but our staff recruited him.

Why is Joe going to be a 4 year starter. I won’t even bring up the fact he wasn’t the best Pg last year but that didn’t matter. The standard that took the starting PG job from Carey didn’t apply to JG last year.

No one wants to hang around because they see what I am saying.

That was Carey's second year in the program. Guy didn't work out and wasn't going to work out. Big swing and miss by the staff for sure.

People aren't hanging around a lot of places. Duke and UNC and others have their hand me downs spread at programs across the country. Ours are the same or worse in their new homes. Not sure what you're arguing for with this stuff.