Can anybody please tell me why college basketball still has the possession arrow

[kuethstheman]

actually the defense is rewarded. you get the arrow next time. simple really.

I think getting rewarded for half of your good defensive plays and half of the other team's good defensive plays is c0ck-eyed.

BTW, what does "simple really" mean?

 

[kuethstheman]

i like the possession arrow. maybe the defender made a good play but the offensive player made equally good play to negate a teammates pass.

I don't think I understand the scenario.

assuming the defense gets the ball everytime, then who gets the ball under this scenario: the defender steals the ball changing possession for a second and then gets tied up. should the team who just stole the ball give up possession? where do you draw the line.

There are rules to determine who has possession. You give it to the team that didn't have possession at the time of the tie-up.

 

[Eagles20]

I do the official book for the university I work at and I'd say on average their are about 3-4 tie ups in a game. Outside of the initial jump to start the game( granting next possession) and flipping the arrow to start the second half after the ball is put into play, their really aren't an abundance of me writing down possession changes. You will have more games where their are less than 4 tie ups than games where their are more than five from my experience. Woman's basketball seems to have more over the course of games, but I guess that is a different discussion on why that is.

 

[Alsacs]

I do the official book for the university I work at and I'd say on average their are about 3-4 tie ups in a game. Outside of the initial jump to start the game( granting next possession) and flipping the arrow to start the second half after the ball is put into play, their really aren't an abundance of me writing down possession changes. You will have more games where their are less than 4 tie ups than games where their are more than five from my experience. Woman's basketball seems to have more over the course of games, but I guess that is a different discussion on why that is.

What is your take on the arrow though? Do you think it serves its purpose or would you like to see jumpballs on tie ups?

 

[jgeorge322]

I don't think I understand the scenario.


There are rules to determine who has possession. You give it to the team that didn't have possession at the time of the tie-up.

my point is why do you believe doing a jump ball is a more equitable way to decide possession? tying the ball up really has little to do with how good you are at a jump ball.

further, under your belief, a team who steals the ball and is subsequently tied up immediately loses possession. that is stupid imo and not "rewarding the defense."

 

[kuethstheman]

my point is why do you believe doing a jump ball is a more equitable way to decide possession? tying the ball up really has little to do with how good you are at a jump ball.

further, under your belief, a team who steals the ball and is subsequently tied up immediately loses possession. that is stupid imo and not "rewarding the defense."

I didn't mean that my idea had anything to do with how good you are at jump balls. It has to do with rewarding defensive effort rather than having the ball be awarded by non-play criteria.

If someone steals the ball but can't maintain sole possession, then I don't think the steal was final. I don't see what's stupid about rewarding the original offense for making a play to get it back after the steal. It makes more sense to me than giving it to them because it was their turn.

 

[Eagles20]

What is your take on the arrow though? Do you think it serves its purpose or would you like to see jumpballs on tie ups?

I think it does serve its purpose for the majority of the time. Many people in this thread have already stated good reasons in favor of the alternating arrow and I agree with them. I would not be in favor of them tossing it up the whole game, but I definitely understand the view point of why people would like to see it done under five minutes. Overall, I just don't think having the possession arrow affects the game enough to have it changed.

 

[Dave85]

I just don't get why with all the reviews these refs seem to do each game. The refs can't just throw the ball up between the 2 players involved in a jump ball scenario. Honestly, what is the reason college basketball administrators can't get together and still letting a possession arrow determine who gets the ball on a tie up. I mean before 1987 their wasn't a 3-point line and all games have been different since. The shot clock was 45 seconds till 1991 and it has been changed to 35 seconds. If the answer is nobody has brought it up shame on the status quo. I think eventually the NCAA will change the game to 4 10 minute quarters a la FIBA and possession arrow will go away. I expect Marsh01 will know why college basketball still has the arrow as he knows a lot.

Speeds the game up.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Also, you could eliminate most held balls by calling the fouls that occur. If it wasn't fair game to dive on someone's back just because there was a loose ball, you wouldn't have nearly so many tie-ups.

I would love for this to happen. Should be an automatic foul if you jump onto another player who appears to have possession of the ball. This isn't a fumble recovery. Those piles look way too dangerous.

 

[Eagles20]

I didn't mean that my idea had anything to do with how good you are at jump balls. It has to do with rewarding defensive effort rather than having the ball be awarded by non-play criteria.

If someone steals the ball but can't maintain sole possession, then I don't think the steal was final. I don't see what's stupid about rewarding the original offense for making a play to get it back after the steal. It makes more sense to me than giving it to them because it was their turn.

Referees already have enough trouble with making correct judgement calls in sports. I'd rather have it alternate than give them more freedom to make a call. What happens in a scenario where a ball is saved from going out of bounds and is rolling freely and two players converge on it and it's tied up? Or a lose ball after a rebounding situation in the paint that falls to the floor and two guys tie up?

 

[kuethstheman]

Referees already have enough trouble with making correct judgement calls in sports. I'd rather have it alternate than give them more freedom to make a call. What happens in a scenario where a ball is saved from going out of bounds and is rolling freely and two players converge on it and it's tied up? Or a lose ball after a rebounding situation in the paint that falls to the floor and two guys tie up?

Like I said, that would go to alternating possession or jump.

You make an excellent point about adding a judgement call to the refs' plates.

 

[SWC75]

I'm used to the possession arrow but I loved the jump ball. Teams used to run plays off of it.

 

[Cowtown]

While we're at it, let's drop the shot clock to 30 seconds.

In FIBA, you have 8 seconds to get the ball across the half court line, and 24 on the shot clock. Translation: no need to run a secondary break, or even a motion offense, because you'll never get to the reverse. And if they pressure the ball in the back court, the offense will have usually less than 20 seconds. You're lucky to get two good entries, so you better be running the ball through your two best scorers, otherwise you risk finding the ball in the hands of one of your weaker shooters with the clock running down. It's not good for HS, especially the JV teams who have athletes but are lacking in basketball skills. They just throw waves out and press. Thirty and ten is a much better way to go.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In FIBA, you have 8 seconds to get the ball across the half court line, and 24 on the shot clock. Translation: no need to run a secondary break, or even a motion offense, because you'll never get to the reverse. And if they pressure the ball in the back court, the offense will have usually less than 20 seconds. You're lucky to get two good entries, so you better be running the ball through your two best scorers, otherwise you risk finding the ball in the hands of one of your weaker shooters with the clock running down. It's not good for HS, especially the JV teams who have athletes but are lacking in basketball skills. They just throw waves out and press. Thirty and ten is a much better way to go.

I feel good about that.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm used to the possession arrow but I loved the jump ball. Teams used to run plays off of it.

I did that with a buddy in a goof off league in highschool. He'd take the tip, I'd track it down and pass it back to him for a layup. One season we pulled it off at the start of a game like 6 times. It was basically a weird give and go.

 

[Cowtown]

And now after reading the rest of the thread, everyone here needs to read the rule book sections pertaining to player control and team control. For it differs depending on what book you're using. In NYSPHSAA, for example, the boys and girls each have their own rule book. It can get confusing.

edit: I'm not trying to be a smartass, those are two important concepts in the rules, and I'm not sure how many fans even know they are there.

 

[Cowtown]

I feel good about that.

I take that to mean we concur on 30 & 10. Those are reasonable criteria. The shot clock and the three-point-line have made basketball a much better game. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the dreadful stall offenses and Dean Smith's hideous "four corner" format. Even worse was the asinine rule that the defense had to be directed to make a play on the ball in stall situations.

 

[jgeorge322]

I take that to mean we concur on 30 & 10. Those are reasonable criteria. The shot clock and the three-point-line have made basketball a much better game. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the dreadful stall offenses and Dean Smith's hideous "four corner" format. Even worse was the asinine rule that the defense had to be directed to make a play on the ball in stall situations.

id love the 30. part of the issue is our zone seems to lure teams into passing the ball around the perimeter until for the first 30 seconds of the possession, but it makes games hard to watch. 30 would speed things up a bit which makes for a more exciting game to watch.

 

[cto]

We can't win the opening jump ball. Why would be want more of them?

 

[Cowtown]

Woman's basketball seems to have more over the course of games, but I guess that is a different discussion on why that is.

Tread carefully, my friend, you're approaching dangerous ground ...

 

[SWC75]

I've always thought that basketball should be the same on all levels and everywhere. Same game duration. Same quarters. Same shot clock and time needed to get it to midcourt. Same lane and 3 point line. Etc. etc. Why should it be different?

 

[Madbiker]

If you watched games before they changed the rule, the toss by the refs was soooo bad and unfair a lot of the time. The alternating possession was in reaction to that. I doubt the toss would be much better now. Actually if they changed the rule to eliminate the charge and made everything a block against the defense, they could then change and award all tie-ups to the defense IMO. That would eliminate 2 kinds of plays the refs invariably get wrong a high percentage of the time. If the offense gets tied up, reward the defense with the possession.

 

[Brooky03]

I like the possession arrow.

Why is it better for the taller player or better jumper to get an advantage for a ball that both players had equal right to (more or less)? At least, with the possession arrow, 50/50 balls get split up 50/50 between the teams, or close to it.

 

[Cowtown]

I've always thought that basketball should be the same on all levels and everywhere. Same game duration. Same quarters. Same shot clock and time needed to get it to midcourt. Same lane and 3 point line. Etc. etc. Why should it be different?

That's easy enough ...

 

[kuethstheman]

I've always thought that basketball should be the same on all levels and everywhere. Same game duration. Same quarters. Same shot clock and time needed to get it to midcourt. Same lane and 3 point line. Etc. etc. Why should it be different?

I think I'd want to retain the differences in the duration of games because of the differences in player ages and roster sizes.