Carey needs to start

[Sgt Cuse]

My only true defense of more time for Carey is defensively. We face a lot of teams with smaller guards that they bring in waves. Perhaps a few minutes here and there for Carey as a defensive replacement might give our offensive players a little rest so that they can be more aggressive when they get back in. This in turn could help Carey get a little more up to "game speed" which seems to be his problem. He has the speed but right now the "game" part is not keeping up. When I got most irritated about this was a couple games ago when JB put Frank back in for the last 2 minutes of the first half with 2 fouls. I know JB has his own philosophy regarding playing with fouls (even in the 1st half), drives me nuts, but for the most part it works out for SU and we get extra minutes with our best players on the court that other teams sit. But you can't tell me bringing Carey in and sitting on it for 2 minutes is worse than bringing Frank in for the last 2 minutes and take the chance he picks one up late.

I agree if he could handle the role - ball handling, defense, and distributing (viewing himself as the 4th option). But he hasn't done that, and didn't do it again.

Not only hasn't he done the above, but he is losing the ball in places where the other team gets numbers going back the other way. So the team defense is really suffering because of how many unsettled situations he is giving the other team - getting down at our end before the defense can set up.

As for the JB decision, SU was down big and making a first half closing run. I can understand the need to roll the dice a little more than usual in that situation. Also, JC had just had one of the more atrocious 2 minute stretches a point guard can have, you don't put him back in.

 

[bpo57]

No way. Frank is averaging 10 points per game in ACC play, even after he played awful on Tuesday. 44% from the floor and 36% from 3 in ACC play. Against Pitt, Frank had 15 points, on 3-7 from 3. He also had 4 steals and was 4-4 from the free throw line. If the goal is to win games, we go with Frank. Everyone has a bad game here and there, but Frank has been pretty solid.

In ACC games Frank has 27 assists and 21 TOs. That's very mediocre. He dribbles side to side and can rarely penetrate. He's also averaging a little more than two rebounds over that stretch. During the ACC sked he's shot the ball better but 41% from the field and <36% from three are nothing to get overly excited about. From an overall floor game perspective he's not doing much. Can't penetrate and tellingly has only been to the line in seven of the 19 games he has played in.

 

[HakAttack]

In ACC games Frank has 27 assists and 21 TOs. That's very mediocre. He dribbles side to side and can rarely penetrate. He's also averaging a little more than two rebounds over that stretch. During the ACC sked he's shot the ball better but 41% from the field and <36% from three are nothing to get overly excited about. From an overall floor game perspective he's not doing much. Can't penetrate and tellingly has only been to the line in seven of the 19 games he has played in.

I think it's beyond clear he's nowhere close to 100%.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

In ACC games Frank has 27 assists and 21 TOs. That's very mediocre. He dribbles side to side and can rarely penetrate. He's also averaging a little more than two rebounds over that stretch. During the ACC sked he's shot the ball better but 41% from the field and <36% from three are nothing to get overly excited about. From an overall floor game perspective he's not doing much. Can't penetrate and tellingly has only been to the line in seven of the 19 games he has played in.

Agree, 27 and 21 is mediocre, but that’s only 2 TO’s per game. Carey is going to be far worse than that. I’ll take 44% from the floor and 36% from 3. And 10ppg., Carey will lose us games and will likely not win them.

 

[Madbiker]

JB is going to keep trying combos until one of them pans out. Then he’ll say I told you so.

Yep. Mike G worked out so he's stuck on finding another rather than recruit true PGs.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Yep. Mike G worked out so he's stuck on finding another rather than recruit true PGs.

Michael Carter-Williams too. He was pretty good. Wasn’t Brandon Triche s shooting guard in high school?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Michael Carter-Williams too. He was pretty good. Wasn’t Brandon Triche s shooting guard in high school?

No Triche was a PG we tried to make a SG.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

JB is going to keep trying combos until one of them pans out. Then he’ll say I told you so.

I hope so. The last “true point guard” we had was Tyler Ennis and he was a Top 25 recruit. While he was a good player, our offense averaged 62 ppg in the ACC that season and we flamed out in the 1st round. Gbinije led us to a Final Four and Howard led us to a Sweet 16 run. Michael Carter Williams led us to a FF run in 2013.

 

[Madbiker]

Michael Carter-Williams too. He was pretty good. Wasn’t Brandon Triche s shooting guard in high school?

Yes but Triche was never a good PG. He was much better off the ball.

 

[Ajflood12]

Without reading the rest of the thread I would just like to point out that Frank has been here almost 4 years now and everything you said about Carey is true of Frank also. And there is much less room/time to grow for Frank.

I am right there with you. I guess therein lies the problem with the season.

 

[GooseMutt]

ummm...Jalen is a 2...his play has shown that thus far.

Jalen has vision and acute awareness out there. He has shown that and has made some nice passes earlier in season. Frank was a great passer his early years but lost his vision. We need change

 

[orangedave]

But yet Jalen has a better true shooting %. Come on man. You can use statistics to make any argument.

And true shooting % is arguably THE stat to use because it takes into account 2PT, 3PT and FTs. So even with his recent hot streak, Carey’s true shooting % is still higher than Buddy’s.

As you said,
You can use statistics to make any argument.

 

[bpo57]

I think it's beyond clear he's nowhere close to 100%.

Could very well be but JB poured cold water on that at his last presser.

 

[BillSU]

Could very well be but JB poured cold water on that at his last presser.

Unless the freshman point is playing well in his first year he's not going to see major minutes.

It takes a year for maturation, learning to handle the ball in games and not turning it over, shooting in traffic, distributing to a driving player or one that is set and has has a great look, stealing from behind, anticipating a cross court pass – intercepting it and scoring, dribbling through a press down the floor and scoring or passing to an open player, taking the ball away and running the floor for a layup, learning what you are able to do best:

Are you a shooter or more of an assistant getting the ball through small holes to someone who is open to score, non – look passing, behind the back passing, the lofted pass over the basket for a dunk, Sherman Douglas worked that to perfection at SU and the NBA.

There are a plethora of things that JB is looking to Carey for and until he finds it and Carey does it well he's not going to see that much time.

No different than any other promising Freshman player.

 

[tbonezone]

carey is not going to improve this year given his current PT. JB needs to lengthen his leash. come tourney time with back to back games you're gonna want all the bodies you can muster. with game experience.

 

[Ghost]

Of course Carey won't start, he's the 4th guard for crying out loud. Don't give this lunatic fringe the legitimacy of thinking this is an actual consideration.

As for making the PG a time share, the backup pg position is being won by Battle. The Battle/Buddy combo beats out any JC combo. Giving more time to JC would have stunted the chemistry growth between Battle and Buddy.

JC (as 4th guard) had a rare late season (last 3rd) opportunity to earn more PT. He failed miserably (again).

So the question shouldn't be does JC start, it should be does JC warrant any more time this season? When does JB pull the plug?

The somewhat disconcerting aspect here, and I don't disagree with anything you posted, is that our Battle Buddy combo involves a kid that JB couldn't put in the game against Va Tech because their defense is aggressive and their guards are super quick...which doesn't bode well for the tourney if we get in and get a match-up against some plucky team with quick guards and pressure defense. lol

We have a PG (Howard), and SG (Buddy) that can't deal well with pressure defense...and another PG that can't dribble at full speed whilst retaining possession of the ball. Sad times.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The somewhat disconcerting aspect here, and I don't disagree with anything you posted, is that our Battle Buddy combo involves a kid that JB couldn't put in the game against Va Tech because their defense is aggressive and their guards are super quick...which doesn't bode well for the tourney if we get in and get a match-up against some plucky team with quick guards and pressure defense. lol

We have a PG (Howard), and SG (Buddy) that can't deal well with pressure defense...and another PG that can't dribble at full speed whilst retaining possession of the ball. Sad times.

I agree, this team has flaws. Probably one of the reasons were so far into the season and still using 4 guards.

Battle at point is looking good, Frank has shown in the past to be able to somewhat handle pressure. But we're going to need big improvement from JC and someone else for this not to be a problem next year as well.

And as always matchups are huge in the tourney.

 

[tbonezone]

right now the backup PG is the starting SG. not an ideal situation.

 

[bpo57]

I hope so. The last “true point guard” we had was Tyler Ennis and he was a Top 25 recruit. While he was a good player, our offense averaged 62 ppg in the ACC that season and we flamed out in the 1st round. Gbinije led us to a Final Four and Howard led us to a Sweet 16 run. Michael Carter Williams led us to a FF run in 2013.

"Howard led us to a Sweet 16 run". That's a rather generous interpretation of what actually happened. In the NCAAT he was 33% from the floor, 21% from three and had 11 assists and 8 turnovers. Rather more like we got there despite his performance and not because of it.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

"Howard led us to a Sweet 16 run". That's a rather generous interpretation of what actually happened. In the NCAAT he was 33% from the floor, 21% from three and had 11 assists and 8 turnovers. Rather more like we got there despite his performance and not because of it.

That some fine cherry picking there. Let’s see...12 pts, 3 steals, 3 rebounds, 2 3’s and only 2 TO’s in 40 minutes in ASU win. 7 pts, 5 rebounds, 2 steals and only 2 TO’s in 40 minutes in the win over TCU. 13 points on 5-10 shooting and only 1 TO in the win over Michigan State. Yup Howard was a non-factor in those 3 wins. Silly.

 

[OrangeDW]

That some fine cherry picking there. Let’s see...12 pts, 3 steals, 3 rebounds, 2 3’s and only 2 TO’s in 40 minutes in ASU win. 7 pts, 5 rebounds, 2 steals and only 2 TO’s in 40 minutes in the win over TCU. 13 points on 5-10 shooting and only 1 TO in the win over Michigan State. Yup Howard was a non-factor in those 3 wins. Silly.

His defense was great last year too. We won all 3of those games primarily with our defense.

 

[bpo57]

That some fine cherry picking there. Let’s see...12 pts, 3 steals, 3 rebounds, 2 3’s and only 2 TO’s in 40 minutes in ASU win. 7 pts, 5 rebounds, 2 steals and only 2 TO’s in 40 minutes in the win over TCU. 13 points on 5-10 shooting and only 1 TO in the win over Michigan State. Yup Howard was a non-factor in those 3 wins. Silly.

Moans about cherry picking and then goes on to cherry pick certain stats when I used stats from the entire tournament. Then again you're the same guy that characterized his play this year as "solid". lol

 

[OrangeDW]

Moans about cherry picking and then goes on to cherry pick certain stats when I used stats from the entire tournament. Then again you're the same guy that characterized his play this year as "solid". lol

He played great defense and took care of the ball in W’s.

He has not been solid this year, but I had no problem with what he did in the tourney last year.

If Marek doesn’t commit multiple bad fouls, we’re probably in the elite 8.

 

[bpo57]

He played great defense and took care of the ball in W’s.

He has not been solid this year, but I had no problem with what he did in the tourney last year.

If Marek doesn’t commit multiple bad fouls, we’re probably in the elite 8.

If not for Doley we're not even playing for the chance to be in the Elite 8. He, Battle and OB were far more important to SU's run in the tourney last year. You could make the case PC was a bigger contributor as well.

Context is impt here. The quote was Howard led us on our Sweet 16 run. He did contribute on defense but his overall play was well behind the others mentioned above.

 

[OrangeDW]

If not for Doley we're not even playing for the chance to be in the Elite 8. He, Battle and OB were far more important to SU's run in the tourney last year. You could make the case PC was a bigger contributor as well.

Context is impt here. The quote was Howard led us on our Sweet 16 run. He did contribute on defense but his overall play was well behind the others mentioned above.

All 5 guys got it done.

And yes, Marek was the key to shredding Duke in the first half. That 8 minute stretch to end the half when he was out with 3 fouls(2 of them were “what the...” fouls), is where we lost the game. We were beating them the first 12 minutes soundly, and we beat them in the second half.

Not blaming Marek...just pointing out he was the key to our attack that game, and he went out of the game with fouls for the 8 minute stretch that cost us.

Frank was a role player as was Chukwu. I was happy with both of them last March. They did what they could.