Carmelo's Woes | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Carmelo's Woes

We have? I haven’t. He’s had a pretty great career. He didn’t have enough talent around him for the most part when he was in his prime to win a title, but he played great in many seasons.

But we had this convo before and you said you expected him to average 25, 10, and 5 or something that I don’t think anyone else has ever done, so we had different expectations of him.

Agree with this. Considering success has revolved around LeBron, Duncan and San Antonio, the Warriors, Lakers and Jordan since the early 90s. It's been a limited crew with some others mixing in here and there . That is not to say there hasn't been loads of talent around the league without titles to their name because there has. Melo falls in line with many other talented players who simply couldn't take their teams past other talented stars in their era.
 
The NBA has become nearly unwatchable. Melo is fading off as you expect all veterans to eventually. Until they do something to offset the impact of the 3 ball it is only going to get worse.
Huh? the 3 ball? is this /s ?

this is modern hoops meng. and its honestly a way better product than college hoops
 
The NBA has become nearly unwatchable. Melo is fading off as you expect all veterans to eventually. Until they do something to offset the impact of the 3 ball it is only going to get worse.

To each their own but I think the NBA is incredible right now, particularly in this season’s playoffs when Golden State is nowhere close to being a lock to win it all.
 
No not in the least. The quality of basketball as a result is what I am getting at. It starts at AAU, continues at the college level and now as the 3 ball dominates the NBA similar to how it does at all levels it is just not fun to watch. Also I'm only 34 so it has nothing to do with watching the game through the 80s and 90s and having some kind of attachment to it.

I hear you. I enjoy the league, but I do miss seeing good low post players go to work on the blocks, and good mid range scorers do their thing. I like the 3 as much as anyone, but I like balance. Maybe that’s why I enjoyed our 2003 team so much all season...we had low post scorers, mid range scorers, guys who could drive and finish, and perimeter shooters.
 
We've said the same thing with Melo his entire career. Starting with Andre Miller. Literally every single year.

Some years may be legit, Some not, maybe all were... but the dude has played 15 years in the NBA and forced his way into 1 of the dumbest trades ever. I'm glad he's got his 25,000 points - but my expectations were that he would be a top 5 player in the NBA for a decade. There may be a year or 2 that he snuck into real superstardom... Buts his NBA career to me is a let down. And I'm pretty sure deep down he feels it too.

He was really very good for a decade. All-nba for six of eight years from 2006 to 2013.

He was a bad GM and unlike LeBron not quite good enough a player to overcome his contract decisions. But he anchored some very good Denver teams in a loaded western conference, and then that excellent Knicks team in 2013 that quickly got memory-holed.

The way that Knicks move went down (which is at least mostly his fault) did a number on his reputation. I think once time passes people will see him for what he was - a no-doubt hall of famer who never had a great situation.
 
We have? I haven’t. He’s had a pretty great career. He didn’t have enough talent around him for the most part when he was in his prime to win a title, but he played great in many seasons.

But we had this convo before and you said you expected him to average 25, 10, and 5 or something that I don’t think anyone else has ever done, so we had different expectations of him.

Like I said, my expectations were that he was going to be a top 5 player for a decade. I think if we go back to 2003 most would agree with me.

So 25, 10, 5 was too much. Very impressed you remember that. I believe without looking those were the exact numbers I said. That being said, I know every person here taking bias aside will say his rebounding and assists have been shockingly bad compared to their expectations. Especially his rebounding. He was a phenomenal rebounder here. FYI he’s now gone 3 playoff games with 0 assists and 8 TO’s. That’s Yinka Dare level.

Look - He’s had a fine career. Will be top 15 in scoring. He’s going to the basketball HOF. But his NBA career is an after thought to any non Syracuse fan. I would have never guessed that he would never sniff any real or sustained playoff success.
 
He was really very good for a decade. All-nba for six of eight years from 2006 to 2013.

He was a bad GM and unlike LeBron not quite good enough a player to overcome his contract decisions. But he anchored some very good Denver teams in a loaded western conference, and then that excellent Knicks team in 2013 that quickly got memory-holed.

The way that Knicks move went down (which is at least mostly his fault) did a number on his reputation. I think once time passes people will see him for what he was - a no-doubt hall of famer who never had a great situation.

He’s def a HOFer. It’s the basketball HOF (not NBA) so easy no brainer.

The All NBA 6 out 8 years is a little misleading. He was 3rd team 4 or 5 out of the 6? Nothing to scoff at but I honestly expected more.

And IMO where it all comes down is him betting too much on himself and being a poor GM as you said. You can elevate a team in college. But only Lebron can elevate an NBA team to true elite level and even he can barely push them over to a championship (that’s if u count that Cavs team with Kyrie and Love as an underdog)
 
Everyone stands around when they don't have the ball. Donovan is not good and they got fleeced in two trades. Their gm forgot the golden rule...passing and ball movement wins.
 
Like I said, my expectations were that he was going to be a top 5 player for a decade. I think if we go back to 2003 most would agree with me.

So 25, 10, 5 was too much. Very impressed you remember that. I believe without looking those were the exact numbers I said. That being said, I know every person here taking bias aside will say his rebounding and assists have been shockingly bad compared to their expectations. Especially his rebounding. He was a phenomenal rebounder here. FYI he’s now gone 3 playoff games with 0 assists and 8 TO’s. That’s Yinka Dare level.

Look - He’s had a fine career. Will be top 15 in scoring. He’s going to the basketball HOF. But his NBA career is an after thought to any non Syracuse fan. I would have never guessed that he would never sniff any real or sustained playoff success.

His rebounding has been above average for a SF his whole career. Most guys who project more as NBA SF’s rebound better in college. Billy Owens would be another Cuse example. Averaged 11 as a junior, never more than 8 as a pro. Antawn Jamison was a great rebounder in college, averaged 7.5 for his career in the pros. I really don’t think Melo’s rebounding has been a problem or a disappointment.

He’s not in much position to get assists with OKC this year. He didn’t get many all regular season either. He doesn’t touch the ball much unless it’s for a spot up 3. And they don’t run much of anything other than pick and roll for Russ, or Russ go off the dribble.

I don’t really know what you mean by afterthought. As in, not mentioned with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, etc.? I mean, he’ll be mentioned with guys like Dominique, Drexler. Nothing wrong with that. He won a scoring title in probably the greatest wing scorer era(Durant, Kobe, LeBron) ever. I don’t see his on court career as anything but excellent. He had some bad luck(Amare’s injury, his whole team going cold in ‘13 playoffs, Trevor Ariza stealing two games on inbounds passes in the ‘09 WCF), timing, and probably made some bad career decisions(taking the extension in Denver, resigning in NY) that hurt his chances to win it all.
 
He’s def a HOFer. It’s the basketball HOF (not NBA) so easy no brainer.

The All NBA 6 out 8 years is a little misleading. He was 3rd team 4 or 5 out of the 6? Nothing to scoff at but I honestly expected more.

And IMO where it all comes down is him betting too much on himself and being a poor GM as you said. You can elevate a team in college. But only Lebron can elevate an NBA team to true elite level and even he can barely push them over to a championship (that’s if u count that Cavs team with Kyrie and Love as an underdog)

He was 3rd in MVP voting in 2013...and second team All NBA because LeBron and Durant were the forwards. Kinda tough to get a first team nod in that era. They don’t always get those right either. See Isiah Thomas basically being blackballed from them as he never made another after 1987(the year of his Larry Bird comments), which was a joke.
 
Being good enough to always make Team USA for every Olympics is pretty damn good. Most max contract players can't sniff the USA team you have to be a legit perennial all star and one of the better ones. Thats how good he was.

This years team is the first time hes ever had stars around him (AI was where Melo is in 2018 when they played together) but 15 years in the league has taken its toll. Every team he was on in his prime would have been TERRIBLE and picking top 5 without him.

He was also a much better fit for the mid-late 2000s NBA than the 2018 NBA in terms of style.

He had one chance to change teams in his prime and got extremely unlucky/made a bad decision to end up on a terrible franchise like the Knicks. Phil Jackson was never meant to be a GM/President and Melo never had a chance to win when the Knicks hired him.

Carmelo is case in point for why Durant and LeBron are such extreme bandwaggon jumpers not only joining the best team but leaving an already good contending team to do so. They made those moves so there was never a risk of ending up in a situation like Melo spent his career in.

16ppg this year is pretty good for a guy clearly past his sell by date. Hes not totally finished he can still shred 2nd units for 15ppg for another 3-4 years and if he wants to chase a ring for vet minimum all the good teams will be happy to have him.
 
He was 3rd in MVP voting in 2013...and second team All NBA because LeBron and Durant were the forwards. Kinda tough to get a first team nod in that era. They don’t always get those right either. See Isiah Thomas basically being blackballed from them as he never made another after 1987(the year of his Larry Bird comments), which was a joke.

Dude. Read my posts without any biases.

You’ll see A. I said he had 2 years of superstardom.

In other threads I literally call him the best college player of the last 20 years.

B. I’m pretty fair with him. But fair isn’t seeing the bright side of everything.

I thought he would have more of a Wade type career.
 
Dude. Read my posts without any biases.

You’ll see A. I said he had 2 years of superstardom.

In other threads I literally call him the best college player of the last 20 years.

B. I’m pretty fair with him. But fair isn’t seeing the bright side of everything.

I thought he would have more of a Wade type career.

I’d say he was a superstar from 2006-2014.

If Carmelo played with Shaq and LeBron, he probably would’ve had Wade’s career.
 
I’d say he was a superstar from 2006-2014.

If Carmelo played with Shaq and LeBron, he probably would’ve had Wade’s career.

Shaq was an aging out of shape player at that point.

Wade is still showing signs of greatness.
 
Shaq was an aging out of shape player at that point.

Wade is still showing signs of greatness.

Shaq was still first team All NBA his first two years in Miami.

Wade averaged 11 ppg and shot 40% for Miami this year after Cleveland gave him away. He had a really good game the other day.
 
Shaq was still first team All NBA his first two years in Miami.

Wade averaged 11 ppg and shot 40% for Miami this year after Cleveland gave him away. He had a really good game the other day.

He’s also 2 or 3 yrs older than Melo.

And anyways it all comes full circle - if Melo didn’t force that stupid trade (I didn’t call it stupid at the time but most did) he could have found a winning team. Instead he thought NYC was more important.

As I said from the beginning. His career is a let down to me. He was still great. Still a HOFer for sure. Still going to get to 27-28k points. But my expectations were higher for him.

You know who probably had higher expectations for him than I did? Melo.
 
He’s also 2 or 3 yrs older than Melo.

And anyways it all comes full circle - if Melo didn’t force that stupid trade (I didn’t call it stupid at the time but most did) he could have found a winning team. Instead he thought NYC was more important.

As I said from the beginning. His career is a let down to me. He was still great. Still a HOFer for sure. Still going to get to 27-28k points. But my expectations were higher for him.

You know who probably had higher expectations for him than I did? Melo.

Off court decisions, sure. I agree. He made some bad moves that hurt his chances to win.

I think on the court he did all he could. He had multiple seasons of averaging like 28-29 points and 6-7 rebounds. I mean...what’s good enough? 30 and 8? 32 and 7? 25-10-5(lol)? He was a great, great player in his prime.
 
Off court decisions, sure. I agree. He made some bad moves that hurt his chances to win.

I think on the court he did all he could. He had multiple seasons of averaging like 28-29 points and 6-7 rebounds. I mean...what’s good enough? 30 and 8? 32 and 7? 25-10-5(lol)? He was a great, great player in his prime.

Stats aren’t everything. He’s going to get 27-28k points. That’s plenty of points. The only thing that matters is wins. And since 2013 - there hasn’t been enough. Over his career there haven’t been enough. In the playoffs there haven’t been enough.

It’s always he wasn’t on the right team (back to my original point) ever since he had Andre Miller.
 
We've said the same thing with Melo his entire career. Starting with Andre Miller. Literally every single year.

Some years may be legit, Some not, maybe all were... but the dude has played 15 years in the NBA and forced his way into 1 of the dumbest trades ever. I'm glad he's got his 25,000 points - but my expectations were that he would be a top 5 player in the NBA for a decade. There may be a year or 2 that he snuck into real superstardom... Buts his NBA career to me is a let down. And I'm pretty sure deep down he feels it too.
I mean he’s going to the hall of fame but otherwise career has been a complete letdown!
 
I mean he’s going to the hall of fame but otherwise career has been a complete letdown!

For the love of Cuse. Read every one of my posts. I’m not unfairly critical of him.

A. Of course he’s going to the hall of fame. It’s the basketball hall of fame. NOT THE NBA hall of fame. He would be going to the HOF without playing an NBA game. Like Boeheim.

B. The letdown is STRICTLY in regards to my high expectations for him. He’s had the best career of any Syracuse player outside of Dave Bing (and even that could be an arguement). I thought he could be a top 25-50 player ever.

Talk to a few non Cuse fans and ask them about Melo’s NBA career.
 
For the love of Cuse. Read every one of my posts. I’m not unfairly critical of him.

A. Of course he’s going to the hall of fame. It’s the basketball hall of fame. NOT THE NBA hall of fame. He would be going to the HOF without playing an NBA game. Like Boeheim.

B. The letdown is STRICTLY in regards to my high expectations for him. He’s had the best career of any Syracuse player outside of Dave Bing (and even that could be an arguement). I thought he could be a top 25-50 player ever.

Talk to a few non Cuse fans and ask them about Melo’s NBA career.

He’d be going to the hall of fame if it was just the NBA Hall of Fame too.

If you’re talking about the type of NBA fans who rip on incredible players like Charles Barkley with lame “how many rings does he have?” comments, I try to avoid those types of fans.
 

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