Carmelo's Woes

[OrangeDW]

Stats aren’t everything. He’s going to get 27-28k points. That’s plenty of points. The only thing that matters is wins. And since 2013 - there hasn’t been enough. Over his career there haven’t been enough. In the playoffs there haven’t been enough.

It’s always he wasn’t on the right team (back to my original point) ever since he had Andre Miller.

Teams win. Organizations win. It’s why so few franchises have won championships in the last 35 years. Compare prime Melo’s teams to basically any other superstars. He had little. Garnett in Minn. is one of the few who had less.

 

[Briancuse]

Teams win. Organizations win. It’s why so few franchises have won championships in the last 35 years. Compare prime Melo’s teams to basically any other superstars. He had little. Garnett in Minn. is one of the few who had less.

Jesus himself couldn't win with the knicks.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not a huge Bill Simmons guy, but I thought he did a pretty good job in a Melo article 4 years ago. This was part of it...

2011 Dirk (21 games): 27.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, 49-46-94%, 8.9 FTA, 25.2 PER
2009 Melo (16 games): 27.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45-36-83%, 9.0 FTA, 24.3 PER

It’s not THAT far off, right? The 2009 Nuggets were Carmelo’s best team; they fell to Kobe’s Lakers in Round 3 with a poor man’s version of the 2011 Mavs. George Karl wasn’t Carlisle. Nene and Kenyon Martin couldn’t protect the rim like Chandler. They didn’t have a perimeter defender anywhere close to Marion’s caliber. They couldn’t shoot 3s nearly as well (only 31 percent for that Lakers series). They relied way too heavily on J.R. Smith, who imploded against Kobe and got outscored 204 points to 76 points.6 Their bench consisted of Dahntay Jones, Linas Kleiza, Chris Andersen and Anthony Carter, or, as it’s better known, the Pu Pu Platter Deluxe. And Melo’s best teammate, Chauncey Billups, played two great rounds before turning into a human icicle against the Lakers (39.7% FG, 33.3% 3FG).

Again, in all caps … THAT’S THE MOST TALENTED PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TEAM THAT CARMELO ANTHONY EVER PLAYED ON.

The second-best team? You might remember them self-destructing just 14 months ago — it was the 2013 Knicks squad that won 54 games in a lousy conference with Melo, a past-his-peak Chandler, J.R. Smith, Ray Felton, a washed-up K-Mart, Iman Shumpert, Chris Copeland, Pablo Prigioni, a hobbled Amar’e Stoudemire and the immortal Mike Woodson coaching.

Again, in all caps … THAT’S THE SECOND-MOST TALENTED PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TEAM THAT CARMELO ANTHONY EVER PLAYED ON.

So could Carmelo morph into 2011 Dirk if you gave him the right situation? We don’t know because he’s never been in the right situation. Why do you think his agents frantically tried to shoehorn him into Chicago’s cap these last few weeks? The money couldn’t work unless the Knicks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Carlos Boozer’s expiring deal (no thanks!) and some future picks (thanks anyway!).

 

[CusefanATL]

Teams win. Organizations win. It’s why so few franchises have won championships in the last 35 years. Compare prime Melo’s teams to basically any other superstars. He had little. Garnett in Minn. is one of the few who had less.

My biggest problem is teams win/organizations win - Melo literally forced himself to the Knicks 3 months too soon in essence killing the Knicks roster. The (lack of) talent during his prime was his own fault.

That being said your Simmons post talked me at least a step or 2 off my “edge” - I’ve still been very fair IMO.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

It’s obvious that he had no freaking legs anymore .. zero lift .. his game was on based on short violent bursts of movements and jumpers .. without legs , he’s in trouble ..

 

[ssbriefcase]

The (lack of) talent during his prime was his own fault

The Nuggs front office was his fault???

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yesterday there was a video headline on ESPN " Melo and Crowder scuffle in physical Game 4 ".
When I pulled up the video, what I saw was Westbrook roughly hacking Crowder who then approaches him to retaliate, Melo and then Adams coming in between them, and Adams getting accidentally elbowed by Crowder. IMO, that misleading headline is emblematic of how Melo is being covered by the media.
He's an aging, declining superstar headliner, who at this stage of his career, is getting way too much attention/blame for things that are taking place around him.
"Playoff P" Paul George, who's in his prime btw, has absolutely sucked, and yet he gets little to no mention nor blame. Westbrook has been toasted by Ricky Rubio, Adams by Gobert, and the Utah bench has crushed the OKC bench, yet its Melo who remains the focus of discussion and derision.
I'm not a Melo apologist. There are major flaws in his game that are exacerbated even more as he ages. But to suggest that he is, in any way shape or form, even a little responsible for OKC tanking, is just blatantly unfair. His career swansong is starting to remind me of Patrick Ewing's in that, he gets a majority of the blame for being who he is, and most of it is not warranted.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

The NBA has become nearly unwatchable. Melo is fading off as you expect all veterans to eventually. Until they do something to offset the impact of the 3 ball it is only going to get worse.

Unwatchable? For a rare moment in my life, I'm speechless.

 

[CusefanATL]

The Nuggs front office was his fault???

He went to the knicks at 27.

 

[AZOrange]

Unwatchable? For a rare moment in my life, I'm speechless.

Might be the best product I’ve seen in 20 years

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Huh? the 3 ball? is this /s ?

this is modern hoops meng. and its honestly a way better product than college hoops

I wanted to quadruple like this.

 

[OrangeDW]

My biggest problem is teams win/organizations win - Melo literally forced himself to the Knicks 3 months too soon in essence killing the Knicks roster. The (lack of) talent during his prime was his own fault.

That being said your Simmons post talked me at least a step or 2 off my “edge” - I’ve still been very fair IMO.

That has nothing to do with the Nuggets though.

And while Wilson Chandler and Gallo were decent young players, they weren’t that big of a deal. The bigger problem was that Amare’s body gave out not long after Melo got there. That team-up was supposed to be an answer to what Boston and Miami had done, but due to Amare’s health we never really got to see it.

 

[ssbriefcase]

He went to the knicks at 27.

Ok, so he went to just about the worst organization in sports from a top 5 worst in the NBA. The Knicks haven't won sht in forever and had nothing there but Stoudemire. Yes he chose to go there, that doesn't mean he had almost 0 around him. But let's not forget what his 8 seasons were in Denver, which were the majority of his prime imo. I bought season tickets the minute he was drafted, and obviously pay a lot of attention to not only hoops in general but a hyper focus on SU players. The Nuggets did him no favors, and that's why they have the rep they do.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yesterday there was a video headline on ESPN " Melo and Crowder scuffle in physical Game 4 ".
When I pulled up the video, what I saw was Westbrook roughly hacking Crowder who then approaches him to retaliate, Melo and then Adams coming in between them, and Adams getting accidentally elbowed by Crowder. IMO, that misleading headline is emblematic of how Melo is being covered by the media.
He's an aging, declining superstar headliner, who at this stage of his career, is getting way too much attention/blame for things that are taking place around him.
"Playoff P" Paul George, who's in his prime btw, has absolutely sucked, and yet he gets little to no mention nor blame. Westbrook has been toasted by Ricky Rubio, Adams by Gobert, and the Utah bench has crushed the OKC bench, yet its Melo who remains the focus of discussion and derision.
I'm not a Melo apologist. There are major flaws in his game that are exacerbated even more as he ages. But to suggest that he is, in any way shape or form, even a little responsible for OKC tanking, is just blatantly unfair. His career swansong is starting to remind me of Patrick Ewing's in that, he gets a majority of the blame for being who he is, and most of it is not warranted.

Good point. I’d already forgotten about that because I’m so used to the BS coverage of Melo.

He did zero “scuffling”, lol. I was brushing my teeth before bed and heard the excitement and heard the commentators saying Melo’s name like he was in a fight, so I went to the TV to see what happened. Nothing. Nothing at all. On Melo’s part at least.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Mello and Westbrook in the their absolute prime win nothing - not even knocking them - but they are nothing but numbers guys and their careers in the NBA are basically meaningless - at least Melo - when u think of the NBA title - the last thing of relevance is Carmello

 

[HOFCeluck]

Mello and Westbrook in the their absolute prime win nothing - not even knocking them - but they are nothing but numbers guys and their careers in the NBA are basically meaningless - at least Melo - when u think of the NBA title - the last thing of relevance is Carmello

"Carmello"

 

[orange79]

"Carmello"

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Would love to see him become a 7th man, guy that can score on a 2nd unit for a team like the Warriors or Spurs that has a coach that he would respect and hopefully define his role for him in exchange for a chance to win something for once. Not sure he has the mindset or mentality to deal with the reduced role and salary that goes with a role like that but I would enjoy seeing him go into a no pressure situation like that where he could win.

If not for our glut at F with the emergence of both Brown AND Tatum, I'd love to see him spend a year as a scoring threat off the bench in Boston. I feel like Steven could position him to succeed.

 

[RandygoCuse]

It's frustrating because he started off so well in Denver. They never missed the playoffs with Melo. That may not sound like a big deal but getting his team from the lottery to the postseason doesn't happen a ton. He just could never seem to advance his team past that - at least not too often. Granted, up until this year it was rare that he played with other stars.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

It's frustrating because he started off so well in Denver. They never missed the playoffs with Melo. That may not sound like a big deal but getting his team from the lottery to the postseason doesn't happen a ton. He just could never seem to advance his team past that - at least not too often. Granted, up until this year it was rare that he played with other stars.

The problem with Denver is they never were able to position themselves in a way that allowed them to legit challenge for a ring. In their high water mark of 2007 or so, they won 54 games, but they had neither assembled the "super team" model that was just starting to emerge (Anthony was supported by Billups, a fading iverson, Kenyon martin, etc) nor had they done a good job of developing a young nucleus to that point.

 

[Arangeman]

DWade had a still dominant Shaq fall into his lap. And then Lebron showed up. Otherwise he would have little playoff success and he is revered. Melo never even got respectable help like Dirk.

He’s a first ballot Hall of Famer. He had a great career.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I like putting him in the Nique/Drexler realm. I would add Tracy McGrady too. Just as Drexler and McGrady had to play at the same times as Jordan and Kobe respectively, Melo had to play at the same time as Lebron. And yes, Melo is a first ballot hall of famer based on his NBA accomplishments. I think any disappointment (and I respect what the previous poster said and meant regarding this even if I don't agree) shows just how high the bar was. The only disappointment I have is that he did not have more postseason success.

 

[Arangeman]

I like putting him in the Nique/Drexler realm. I would add Tracy McGrady too. Just as Drexler and McGrady had to play at the same times as Jordan and Kobe respectively, Melo had to play at the same time as Lebron. And yes, Melo is a first ballot hall of famer based on his NBA accomplishments. I think any disappointment (and I respect what the previous poster said and meant regarding this even if I don't agree) shows just how high the bar was. The only disappointment I have is that he did not have more postseason success.

Well said. Nique and Drexler is who I thought of as well.

 

[orangeinnyc]

Might be the best product I’ve seen in 20 years

I am not a huge NBA fan because the regular season is kind of boring to me but these playoffs have been great. The intensity level in some of these series are at all time highs and they dont call soft fouls or have refs take over games the way they do in most ncaa games. The Utah-okc, indy-cavs, bos-mil and wash-tor series are awesome to watch. I love the pushing and shoving and talking trash, the competition level is so high im pumped for tonight's OKC-JAZZ game

 

[Newhouser]

If not for our glut at with the emergence of both Brown AND Tatum, I'd love to see him spend a year as a scoring threat off the bench in Boston. I feel like Steven could position him to succeed.

His response to coming off the bench when he first got to OKC spoke volumes to me. His best impact would be off the bench but not sure his ego is ready for that.