"Carrier" Dome Controversy... When does it hit ESPN?

[sufandu]

To the first part, I would say: what market? If you're located in the central NY region, sure there's value. I don't know if it's a million a year, but it's substantial - if you're located there. If not, I question the value of just having the name mentioned on a building you didn't supply AC to (a source of jokes, per #48, below) located in a region you (mostly) pulled out of. But that is a business issue - way beyond my ken.

As to the second part, you're probably onto something. We're all speculating without the agreement. But based on SU's recent conduct, the deal may only involve a building (physical) label arrangement ... not a "naming rights" agreement in the modern sense requiring "Carrier" to be mentioned (synonamously) with the Dome.

The market is not limited to CNY. It's about getting the name mentioned on TV during regional and national broadcasts.

 

[reedny]

The market is not limited to CNY. It's about getting the name mentioned on TV during regional and national broadcasts.

I won't try to contradict this .. not my area. Suspicion: 90% of the value is regional ... for a business committed to and footprinted in upstate/central NY. And if, as X84 indicates (and as suggested by SU's recent behavior), it's only a physical naming deal (a sign tacked onto a building) ... then any "national" value would be eliminated b/c SU wouldn't be required to mention the name "carrier" at all.

 

[rocklloyd]

You're missing the point - SU's 100% here to stay and Carrier is mostly gone. Why fight to protect your "name" in a region where you have pulled up most of your stakes? And over 2.75M? When you dolled out $14M to demolish your buildings? Implausible. From a bus. perspective, having made out out like a bandit . . . fighting now just wastes money and defeats the purpose.

Not missing point. You said they were GONE. I said they are not.

 

[reedny]

Not missing point. You said they were GONE. I said they are not.

No. You're misquoting me. I said, "with the exception of one building" (they're gone). MY point, that you missed, is that since Carrier has largely pulled up stakes in central NY most, if not all, of its incentive to bicker over the use of its name on the Dome is gone.

 

[OttoMets]

Disagree. Carrier has disproportionately benefited from this deal for decades. ...

Nobody can say that with any certainty.

But for Carrier's $2.75 million, SU wouldn't have gotten its on-campus domed stadium The capital campaign and stadium planning occurred at a time when the university seriously considered deemphasizing football.

You can run with the counterfactual from there.

SU has benefited hugely from Carrier's gift. That part should be beyond dispute. To what degree compared to Carrier's benefit, I don't know.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Find me the original quote out Freeney's mouth. I think it may be far more likely that Carrier was added originally then he said that in the first place...

And the media mis-quotes people all the time. Who the heck cares. Do you work there??

 

[sufandu]

I won't try to contradict this .. not my area. Suspicion: 90% of the value is regional ... for a business committed to and footprinted in upstate/central NY. And if, as X84 indicates (and as suggested by SU's recent behavior), it's only a physical naming deal (a sign tacked onto a building) ... then any "national" value would be eliminated b/c SU wouldn't be required to mention the name "carrier" at all.

They sell their products nationally. That's the market, not where they build them. Up until now, they have been getting publicity beyond just the name on the building. They have been in SU literature and are mentioned during every televised event. That's why they're not happy about SU's recent change. And that seems to be the leverage SU is attempting to use to get out of the archaic deal or negotiate a more modern agreement.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Nobody can say that with any certainty.

But for Carrier's $2.75 million, SU wouldn't have gotten its on-campus domed stadium The capital campaign and stadium planning occurred at a time when the university seriously considered deemphasizing football.

You can run with the counterfactual from there.

SU has benefited hugely from Carrier's gift. That part should be beyond dispute. To what degree compared to Carrier's benefit, I don't know.

So, are you suggesting that 40 years of marketing from an expenditure of $2.75 million, much of which was likely written off on taxes, is somehow equivalent to the sporting success SU enjoyed after the Dome was built?
Serious question, was Carrier’s gift the last option to complete the Dome project, or were there other alternatives in place? Because if there were no other alternatives, I’d agree w/ you. But outside of that, I disagree that the benefits have been equal. If SU joined the OBE and still kept winning in Archbold or Manley, we’d still get the recognition. The Dome was an added benefit, but not the main one. JMHO

 

[Orijinal]

It wasn't 30 years.

It's actually been 40, though. But I understand that's not the point of your post

 

[OttoMets]

...
Serious question, was Carrier’s gift the last option to complete the Dome project, or were there other alternatives in place? Because if there were no other alternatives, I’d agree w/ you. But outside of that, I disagree that the benefits have been equal. If SU joined the OBE and still kept winning in Archbold or Manley, we’d still get the recognition. The Dome was an added benefit, but not the main one. JMHO

That I don't know. Would love to be able to ask Orangeyes that question, I know he'd have had a strong opinion on it.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

You all realize there is a very good chance Freeney’s
Original quote only said “Dome” and they actually altered it originally to ADD Carrier because they felt contractually obligated to do so?

EDIT- I see this has been covered nm

 

[Toga]

Syracuse University Dome with End Zones brought to you by:

 

[SUskibum]

I wonder if carrier wrote off the “gift” as a charitable contribution on their 1979 tax form.

If they did I would have to think that would put them in an awfully bad negotiating position

 

[CuseHouse]

They discussed it briefly on ESPNU Radio (Sirius) this morning. They had most of the facts incorrect (original donation, etc) and one of the hosts thought it was named carrier after a rich donor.

 

[rocklloyd]

No. You're misquoting me. I said, "with the exception of one building" (they're gone). MY point, that you missed, is that since Carrier has largely pulled up stakes in central NY most, if not all, of its incentive to bicker over the use of its name on the Dome is gone.

Misquote or not, you are still wrong.

 

[rocklloyd]

I have no more time to babysit this.

Nor do I. Not sure what else to say to you. Make accurate comments.

 

[reedny]

Nor do I. Not sure what else to say to you. Make accurate comments.

And I have done that. I have offered reasons for every one of my posts .. as opposed to trolling and bickering over an "argument" (that Carrier's not completely gone) which is no different than what I posted - you just left out the qualifying language to suit your 'point'.

 

[rocklloyd]

And I have done that. I have offered reasons for every one of my posts .. as opposed to trolling and bickering over an "argument" (that Carrier's not completely gone) which is no different than what I posted - you just left out the qualifying language to suit your 'point'.

Not bickering or trolling. You said one building and nearly gone. I’m merely correcting you in that it’s one of the largest employers in the area. Which is actually quite a bit different than you posted.

 

[reedny]

Not bickering or trolling. You said one building and nearly gone. I’m merely correcting you in that it’s one of the largest employers in the area. Which is actually quite a bit different than you posted.

Not true. At barely over 1,200 - down from 7,000+ back in the day - they don't even make the top 10. There are some good design (engineering) jobs, but the current number includes P-T (low level) "call center" jobs. SU, just for one example, employs 4x that many (almost 5,000). It's also telling that while Carrier may re-split from UT next year, it still has no plans for any kind of 'come back'. All of which begs the question that I have been asking - why is it worried about its "brand" here ... a region where it paid $14M to bulldoze most of its buildings?

 

[Alsacs]

The Dome is being renovated. Carrier got their consideration for the gift they gave.
The facility is being changed good bye Carrier name and if they want to pay for the new facility naming rights go ahead if not then nobody should care.

 

[sufandu]

At barely over 1,200 - not even in the top 10. And that includes P-T (low level) "call center" jobs. SU, just for one example, employs 4x that many (almost 5,000). Carrier may re-split from UT next year, but it had 7,000 workers here and has no plans to return to that labor force level. Which begs the question that I have been asking - why is it worried about its "brand" here ... a region where it has pulled up most of its stakes?

Because it's already bought and paid for, if they can remain in the current deal. I've already addressed the region thing. Not sure why you're so caught up in that part.

 

[reedny]

Because it's already bought and paid for, if they can remain in the current deal. I've already addressed the region thing. Not sure why you're so caught up in that part.

They did pay for it (way back), but clearly the gravy train has ended. SU's done. As to the "national value", the lifeblood of any facility name flows from the site. To pay for a name at a Northeast University sports building (or to fund a dispute about one) - I would expect the buyer to have a heavy footprint in central NY and want to enhance the brand. Carrier went the other direction, and moved jobs to Mexico and has its headquarters and major operations out of state. So why squabble with the site owner here - a building about to be rebuilt? The value of the name to Carrier has been minimized through it's own decisions, and SU's rebuild plans. So as you pointed out, Carrier will soon have a hard choice to make. SU seems to be betting that Carrier's not in it for the long-haul (again). I'd tend to agree. We'll see.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Misquote or not, you are still wrong.

Nobody fluckin cares!!!!


Screw carrier!!!!

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Syracuse no longer calling the Carrier Dome the, uh, Carrier Dome

NBC

 

[CuseOnly]

You can't just change quotes lol. I don't care what was discussed. Don't use it then. That's not what Freeney said, so just don't use it if you're not using the term Carrier

They can call Freeney and get pretty much whatever quote they want whenever they want. There is no date or timeline on that quote. I would bet they called Dwight for a new quote before they printed the catalog.