Catch 22 on Kool kid

[sufandu]

You would have thought he'd be able to do a better job adjusting his offense to his current talent - the inexperience argument doesn't seem as valid as most are making it out to be. He was I believe an offensive coordinator for a year or two at Western Michigan where he likely had to deal with inferior players to what he has to work with at Syracuse. He was not OC at Miami, but he did run their passing attack from what I understand - so he knows what it takes to move the ball against ACC competition. Just seems pretty clear he's not willing/able to make adjustments either of his scheme to fit the players, or during the game. Shafer clearly promised him the world to get him here with the associate head coach stuff...he needed the recruiting and trusted his friend enough to give him a shot. So far there is no evidence other than our uptick in recruiting to make me think this was a good hire. People act like it was a complete rebuild, coming in starting with nothing, but that's just not the case. It would be ok if we were losing but moving the ball. But when you are getting blown out regularly and have stats like 0 points scored or 27 yards passing or whatever...there are serious issues.

So you're saying fire him?

 

[cuseinchina]

So you're saying fire him?

No I'm saying the situation seems to suck and I hope it gets better. But I'm not seeing the bright spots that lead to confidence that it will get better. I'd say see how he does the rest of the year and then think seriously if this is the right direction to go in because Shafer will only have 2 more years after this one to get things right. I have no knowledge of anything inside outside or upside down, but it just feels like there is a dynamic where Mcdonald humbled himself to come here for his friend and as such demanded a lot of autonomy - all the bs about replicating the offense etc - I think shafer lets the offense do whatever it will because that is part of the deal. Hope he works out, because he is clearly a great recruiter and it would be awesome for him to get SU's offense cranking in a repeatable fashion that could be handed off to and sustained by the QB coach when Mcdonald inevitably moves on (if he is successful) - that is sort of the thing people envisioned when he was hired - I just don't see it yet and it's depressing.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

McDonald's a WR guy, ie he wants to throw the ball. He probably got here, looked at all the QBs and WRs on the roster, and after he shook off the dreamy gaze he got from Loeb had an "oh $#%&" kind of moment and said to himself that he better fix the problem himself by recruiting impact QBs and WRs fast.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's his job to scheme to the team's strength, but that cuts both ways, because I think what we're running now is not the vision for the offense. I think he is trying to scheme to the talent. He's just so limited by what he's got at QB and WR.

Ask yourself this - will you honestly be surprised if next season we start a true or redshirt freshman under center, with Williams/Custis/Cooper all on the 2 deep at WR?

 

[Chip]

McDonald's a WR guy, ie he wants to throw the ball. He probably got here, looked at all the QBs and WRs on the roster, and after he shook off the dreamy gaze he got from Loeb had an "oh $#%&" kind of moment and said to himself that he better fix the problem himself by recruiting impact QBs and WRs fast.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's his job to scheme to the team's strength, but that cuts both ways, because I think what we're running now is not the vision for the offense. I think he is trying to scheme to the talent. He's just so limited by what he's got at QB and WR.

Ask yourself this - will you honestly be surprised if next season we start a true or redshirt freshman under center, with Williams/Custis/Cooper all on the 2 deep at WR?

If you hire an OC who is considered an upper shelf recruiter, and then fire the guy before his first full class hits campus, you aren't running your program very well.

It's just as you said, McDonald has lined up 2 QBs and at least 3, hopefully 4 WRs who could have attended other Power 5 schools. I don't doubt which way he'd like to take this offense.

 

[sufandu]

No I'm saying the situation seems to suck and I hope it gets better. But I'm not seeing the bright spots that lead to confidence that it will get better. I'd say see how he does the rest of the year and then think seriously if this is the right direction to go in because Shafer will only have 2 more years after this one to get things right. I have no knowledge of anything inside outside or upside down, but it just feels like there is a dynamic where Mcdonald humbled himself to come here for his friend and as such demanded a lot of autonomy - all the bs about replicating the offense etc - I think shafer lets the offense do whatever it will because that is part of the deal. Hope he works out, because he is clearly a great recruiter and it would be awesome for him to get SU's offense cranking in a repeatable fashion that could be handed off to and sustained by the QB coach when Mcdonald inevitably moves on (if he is successful) - that is sort of the thing people envisioned when he was hired - I just don't see it yet and it's depressing.

I was only commenting on why I don't think he'll be gone after this year. I think it's too early to fire him because we don't know how good or bad he is at this point, and there's no reason anyone should be interested in him enough to hire him away. That is all.

Fwiw, it was close to a complete rebuild on offense. We lost our starting quarterback, our two best receivers, and two of our best 0-linemen, including a 1st round draft pick who's return last year coincided with our mid-season improvement on offense. The only thing we returned were the running backs, and they looked pedestrian before Pugh's return last season. All that to say, we have no idea if he's a good/bad OC yet.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

McDonald's a WR guy, ie he wants to throw the ball. He probably got here, looked at all the QBs and WRs on the roster, and after he shook off the dreamy gaze he got from Loeb had an "oh $#%&" kind of moment and said to himself that he better fix the problem himself by recruiting impact QBs and WRs fast.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's his job to scheme to the team's strength, but that cuts both ways, because I think what we're running now is not the vision for the offense. I think he is trying to scheme to the talent. He's just so limited by what he's got at QB and WR.

Ask yourself this - will you honestly be surprised if next season we start a true or redshirt freshman under center, with Williams/Custis/Cooper all on the 2 deep at WR?

In addition, at least he was able to put points up versus the likes of Tulane, which at least means there is something to grab on to, not much but he needs time to get talent in which the guy can apparently do

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Didn't you make a thread like this about Hackett?

Yes, 100 times

 

[OrangePA]

Holy cow OPA, are you in Italy or just up early/late?

I think it's part of the aging process?

I seem to wake up - fully awake - every night at about 3:30 am.

Not good.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If you hire an OC who is considered an upper shelf recruiter, and then fire the guy before his first full class hits campus, you aren't running your program very well.

Yep. He's not going anywhere, unless he chooses to.

In addition, at least he was able to put points up versus the likes of Tulane, which at least means there is something to grab on to, not much but he needs time to get talent in which the guy can apparently do

Agreed, I think the outlook here is pretty bright long term actually. Short term's a battle, but there's no doubt he can bring in the talent, and there's no reason to believe that he won't a) improve and b) get more comfortable once he's better positioned with talent to do things according to his philosophy.

That said, I don't want to hear about him spending time with NFL coaches again, ever. Go to Texas A&M, Houston, Oregon, Baylor, crazy left coast college programs to learn new tricks.

 

[jgeorge322]

By the same token bad coaches can make good players look mediocre and mediocre players look like our QB's and WR's.

At the same time I'm not ready to give up on McDonald. He's young and not very experienced running an offense, which means he's sort of learning on the job much like Hackett was. Granted, Hackett had a pretty good mentor while he was here but I'd still give McDonald at least another year to show improvement.

exactly, hackett stunk it up for 3 years before figuring it out and then people wanted to make him HC. gmac can change/improve.

 

[bnoro]

Yep. He's not going anywhere, unless he chooses to.

Agreed, I think the outlook here is pretty bright long term actually. Short term's a battle, but there's no doubt he can bring in the talent, and there's no reason to believe that he won't a) improve and b) get more comfortable once he's better positioned with talent to do things according to his philosophy.

That said, I don't want to hear about him spending time with NFL coaches again, ever. Go to Texas A&M, Houston, Oregon, Baylor, crazy left coast college programs to learn new tricks.

He should be looking at every offense that he can, IMO. Even if we don't use the plays there are wrinkles of every offense that can help give us ideas.

 

[Crusty]

I think we are all underestimating the degree of difficulty of basically a whole new staff coming in and adjusting to players they don't know, new schemes, new opponents and new boss.

We just have to have a little patience. I am a great believer in money and now that we are in a money conference things will get there soon enough.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He should be looking at every offense that he can, IMO. Even if we don't use the plays there are wrinkles of every offense that can help give us ideas.

True, but let's get the wrinkles from the ones that are light years ahead of us first.:noidea:

 

[SoBristol]

exactly, hackett stunk it up for 3 years before figuring it out and then people wanted to make him HC. gmac can change/improve.

GMAC can change and improve when he gets better QB and WR play. Maybe it is partly schemes or play-calling, or eliminating false-starts, but it would sure help to have a legit WR.

Hackett joined Marrone after the Spence experiment, had one year as QB coach and deputy dog, then 2011 was his first as OC. Then, he, Marrone, Nassib & two senior WRs put it together in 2012 with a re-tooled offense. Hackett came here as a rookie; he was a quality control coach with the Bills. Did not have as much college coaching background as McD brought.