Class of 2025 Class of 2025 Recruiting Discussion

[tep624]

I'll continue to stay consistent here. The rankings don't matter.

They matter when it’s the difference between having a class with some top 250-300 kids and not.

We had 5 in the ‘24 class - Willis who will be a 1st / 2nd teamer at RB, Barnes who will likely start at CB, Edwards who will likely be on the LB/DE 2 deep, and Ross and Tremble who both look like guys who will be on the 2 deep out of the gate. Recruiting those kids makes a difference.

It’s gets highly subjective after that, and can be heavily influenced by analyst bias. But generally speaking the top 250-300 kids tend to be wanted by a high number of P4’s and also tend to have a good return on being first or second year impact players.

 

[anomander]

I'll continue to stay consistent here. The rankings don't matter.

Umm couldn’t disagree more. I’ll take top 20 recruiting classes every single year, let alone better, and i guarantee we aren’t just hoping to make a bowl game each season.

 

[orange_in_VA]

Out of all Power conference teams our average committed recruit rating is only higher than the following teams at this time:

Boston College
Cal
Washington State
Oregon State
BYU
Northwestern

We're also currently below G5s Liberty and Memphis using this metric

 

[orangefog]

Out of all Power conference teams our average committed recruit rating is only higher than the following teams at this time:

Boston College
Cal
Washington State
Oregon State
BYU
Northwestern

We're also currently below G5s Liberty and Memphis using this metric

We'll see where that is when the class is properly evaluated. We've already seen that our lowly ranked QB is worthy of and due for a huge rating increase and we will likely be fighting off some big boys for his services. There are others worthy of big upgrades in ratings. Regardless, our staff choosing some of these players over more highly rated players means more to me than the rating services.

 

[DocFlanders]

Out of all Power conference teams our average committed recruit rating is only higher than the following teams at this time:

Boston College
Cal
Washington State
Oregon State
BYU
Northwestern

We're also currently below G5s Liberty and Memphis using this metric

Ooof yikes not good for what’s considered a staff of high level recruiters

 

[CbusCuse]

Even with some adjustments that may or may not happen, our average is still going to be on the lower end of the class.

But this is not completely unplanned or because Fran can’t recruit the higher
Profile players. He put a great deal of emphasis on starting his classes off with local talent primarily from NY. A majority of these kids were taken early and not as a last resort. He feels he can win with these kids or he wouldn’t take them. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. But I for one love that we should start getting the best talent coming out of NY again. And 2025 certainly seems to be a deeper class than most years.

I would think we will get more talent in Jersey moving forward. It appears Rutgers put a high priority in paying for freshman talent in this years class which is probably a smart move on their part. They don’t do much smart but the timing of this spending makes a lot of sense. They don’t want kids to get it in their head that SU with Fran is the place to be for Jersey kids so they are opening the checkbook. With what Fran was able to do closing out the 2024 class and in the transfer portal, they wanted to put a swift end to that. Fortunately we are going to prove to have a very successful season in 2024 and Jersey kids will be back committing to Cuse over them once again. Rutgers on field play will likely be blah. I would love to see Rutgers checks start to bounce soon.

 

[orangefog]

Ooof yikes not good for what’s considered a staff of high level recruiters

Just give it time and keep your eyes on 2026 and beyond.

 

[orange_in_VA]

Ooof yikes not good for what’s considered a staff of high level recruiters

I don't think we can assume it's not good yet. But the perception isn't good. Not personally that worried about it just posting current information for context on the class so far.

 

[orange_in_VA]

Even with some adjustments that may or may not happen, our average is still going to be on the lower end of the class.

But this is not completely unplanned or because Fran can’t recruit the higher
Profile players. He put a great deal of emphasis on starting his classes off with local talent primarily from NY. A majority of these kids were taken early and not as a last resort. He feels he can win with these kids or he wouldn’t take them. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. But I for one love that we should start getting the best talent coming out of NY again. And 2025 certainly seems to be a deeper class than most years.

I would think we will get more talent in Jersey moving forward. It appears Rutgers put a high priority in paying for freshman talent in this years class which is probably a smart move on their part. They don’t do much smart but the timing of this spending makes a lot of sense. They don’t want kids to get it in their head that SU with Fran is the place to be for Jersey kids so they are opening the checkbook. With what Fran was able to do closing out the 2024 class and in the transfer portal, they wanted to put a swift end to that. Fortunately we are going to prove to have a very successful season in 2024 and Jersey kids will be back commuting to once again. Rutgers will likely be blah once again. I would love to see Rutgers checks start to bounce soon.

I mostly agree with this. Gotta trust the staff and having the top NY kids is really cool obviously.

 

[baggerbob]

I mostly agree with this. Gotta trust the staff and having the top NY kids is really cool obviously.

Depending on how this year's team does there will be more players from the portal.
All of the players Fran took had the measurables he looks for.
Some will turn out well, others won't, but he Isn't bring in undersized, or players without speed like they have in the past.

 

[orange_in_VA]

Depending on how this year's team does there will be more players from the portal.
All of the players Fran took had the measurables he looks for.
Some will turn out well, others won't, but he Isn't bring in undersized, or players without speed like they have in the past.

The measurables are worth being excited about for sure

 

[anomander]

We'll see where that is when the class is properly evaluated. We've already seen that our lowly ranked QB is worthy of and due for a huge rating increase and we will likely be fighting off some big boys for his services. There are others worthy of big upgrades in ratings. Regardless, our staff choosing some of these players over more highly rated players means more to me than the rating services.

There are rarely adjustments done once a ratings is given. Maybe a specific player or 2, like Tremble last year, but for the most part, once given a rating it doesn’t change.

I will say I think northeast kids, especially NYS are always under rated because they aren’t covered in depth, and may not participate in many camps. The quality of player compared to consistently beating peer P4’s is an improvement. I think last year the bar was set high. It’s encouraging we’re getting interest from elite athletes. The next step is proving it on the field and continue to improve our NIL game because , unfortunately, that seems like where things are headed…. even for top / high end recruits.

 

[AngryOtto]

Don't keep up your academics, have a bad season, do something bad off the field? He's definitely pulling those offers.

It's a business now more than ever and all we've heard from everyone that knows Fran is he's honest and straight up with everyone.

We might see some things that look ruthless or some interviews that paint him in a bad light, but Fran is as authentic as they come.

I agree with grades and behavior. Not sure Fran would pull the offer from an underperforming senior year. He’s trying to build relationships with high school coaches. He does not want to burn those bridges.
On the ratings. I agree they do not matter overall. It’s all subjective in the rating. Offer list seems to be a better indicator but not always.
I feel the staff is looking for kids with size and speed they can coach up. Also now with nil you need to be wise how the money is spent. Two players with similar skills but rated an 86 versus a 90. The 90 may want considerably more nil. Why would the staff over spend because some analyst at 247 gave them a high rating. Better to put the money in proven transfers and current players.
Top 250 players are not always guarantees. Look at our two backup qbs that most on this board would have move on now.
I have faith in Fran. 46 days until kick off.

 

[bnoro]

I agree with grades and behavior. Not sure Fran would pull the offer from an underperforming senior year. He’s trying to build relationships with high school coaches. He does not want to burn those bridges.
On the ratings. I agree they do not matter overall. It’s all subjective in the rating. Offer list seems to be a better indicator but not always.
I feel the staff is looking for kids with size and speed they can coach up. Also now with nil you need to be wise how the money is spent. Two players with similar skills but rated an 86 versus a 90. The 90 may want considerably more nil. Why would the staff over spend because some analyst at 247 gave them a high rating. Better to put the money in proven transfers and current players.
Top 250 players are not always guarantees. Look at our two backup qbs that most on this board would have move on now.
I have faith in Fran. 46 days until kick off.

It's not burning a bridge if the player hasn't developed and Fran is up front with them about the situation. It happens all the time at the premier programs.

It's a business not a charity.

 

[tep624]

I agree with grades and behavior. Not sure Fran would pull the offer from an underperforming senior year. He’s trying to build relationships with high school coaches. He does not want to burn those bridges.
On the ratings. I agree they do not matter overall. It’s all subjective in the rating. Offer list seems to be a better indicator but not always.
I feel the staff is looking for kids with size and speed they can coach up. Also now with nil you need to be wise how the money is spent. Two players with similar skills but rated an 86 versus a 90. The 90 may want considerably more nil. Why would the staff over spend because some analyst at 247 gave them a high rating. Better to put the money in proven transfers and current players.
Top 250 players are not always guarantees. Look at our two backup qbs that most on this board would have move on now.
I have faith in Fran. 46 days until kick off.

For all intents and purposes, offers and camp performances end up dictating the top 250 kids so the sites have a lot less leeway to prop kids up or artificially hold them down from that tier. Does it happen? Definitely, but at the end of the day if you looked at the On3 / 247 / ESPN / Rivals top 250/300 lists, you generally land around 350 kids in total that are on at least one of the lists.

Are they all going to hit? Absolutely not. Davis and CDRW as you mentioned are two that clearly didn’t. But the yield rate on those kids if I had to guess on at least becoming a 1st teamer during their career has to be in the 60-70% range. For a long time we sorta talked ourselves into here that we can be Boise St part 2 and have a consistently successful program ignoring the top tier of recruits. I myself bought into that for a long time and it’s just erroneous. Boise St was a unicorn.

Now if NIL dollars are being saved for flip season and portal season, and our strategy all things equal is to target players in the 5 hour radius with similar measurables to the top 250/300 players we’ve targeted, then that’s fine. I actually like that strategy to some degree. But having all those kids visit and actively recruiting them would seem to dictate otherwise.

 

[baggerbob]

For all intents and purposes, offers and camp performances end up dictating the top 250 kids so the sites have a lot less leeway to prop kids up or artificially hold them down from that tier. Does it happen? Definitely, but at the end of the day if you looked at the On3 / 247 / ESPN / Rivals top 250/300 lists, you generally land around 350 kids in total that are on at least one of the lists.

Are they all going to hit? Absolutely not. Davis and CDRW as you mentioned are two that clearly didn’t. But the yield rate on those kids if I had to guess on at least becoming a 1st teamer during their career has to be in the 60-70% range. For a long time we sorta talked ourselves into here that we can be Boise St part 2 and have a consistently successful program ignoring the top tier of recruits. I myself bought into that for a long time and it’s just erroneous. Boise St was a unicorn.

Now if NIL dollars are being saved for flip season and portal season, and our strategy all things equal is to target players in the 5 hour radius with similar measurables to the top 250/300 players we’ve targeted, then that’s fine. I actually like that strategy to some degree. But having all those kids visit and actively recruiting them would seem to dictate otherwise.

I'll go on record now and say outside of Willis the recruit that excites me the most is Malachi James.
Missing all the summer camps his junior year meant he didn't get the chance to show how good he can be.
But he worked hard to recover, had a good senior year, and busted his butt to be better at track.
He also has exceptional speed and is built like a running back not a thin receiver.
He isn't going to get knocked off his feet by a DB if he gets open.
If he shows he can catch balls from McCord you find a place to play him.

 

[tep624]

I'll go on record now and say outside of Willis the recruit that excites me the most is Malachi James.
Missing all the summer camps his junior year meant he didn't get the chance to show how good he can be.
But he worked hard to recover, had a good senior year, and busted his butt to be better at track.
He also has exceptional speed and is built like a running back not a thin receiver.
He isn't going to get knocked off his feet by a DB if he gets open.
If he shows he can catch balls from McCord you find a place to play him.

I like him a lot too - impressive athlete.

 

[upperdeck]

We raised the bottom/middle of the class a ton from the last few years.

 

[upperdeck]

View attachment 242865

just going by 247 numbers. we have more 87 and above kids than Duke and twice as many as Wake.

So avg does skew things since its a strange number to begin with.

 

[tep624]

We raised the bottom/middle of the class a ton from the last few years.

1000%. Major improvement.

 

[longtimefan]

Out of all Power conference teams our average committed recruit rating is only higher than the following teams at this time:

Boston College
Cal
Washington State
Oregon State
BYU
Northwestern

We're also currently below G5s Liberty and Memphis using this metric

Putting precise numerical ratings on 3*'s (many of whom the evaluators have not seen) is an iffy proposition.

 

[javadoc]

Putting precise numerical ratings on 3*'s (many of whom the evaluators have not seen) is an iffy proposition.

Fool's errand, really.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

I'll go on record now and say outside of Willis the recruit that excites me the most is Malachi James.
Missing all the summer camps his junior year meant he didn't get the chance to show how good he can be.
But he worked hard to recover, had a good senior year, and busted his butt to be better at track.
He also has exceptional speed and is built like a running back not a thin receiver.
He isn't going to get knocked off his feet by a DB if he gets open.
If he shows he can catch balls from McCord you find a place to play him.

If he can catch (and hold onto) the ball, 10.18 is a game-changer, faster than Sean Tucker (10.77) and any of the WR's that have burned us in the past - Sammy Watkins, Tutu Atwell, Newsome, Tez Walker, Keon Coleman, et al

 

[Orijinal]

Rule of thumb on recruit rankings:

Any one individual recruit can be misevaluated or undervalued. The star count may not be an indication of the talent level of the individual

Overall team recruiting rankings (the conglomeration of all recruits in a class) actually are pretty accurate, and give a good indication of how good a team can be

 

[bnoro]

Rule of thumb on recruit rankings:

Any one individual recruit can be misevaluated or undervalued. The star count may not be an indication of the talent level of the individual

Overall team recruiting rankings (the conglomeration of all recruits in a class) actually are pretty accurate, and give a good indication of how good a team can be

Why aren't Texas, USC, and Miami in CFB playoff contention every year then? Those are inaccurate top 10 recruiting classes then...