Class of 2025 Class of 2025 Recruiting Discussion

[IthacaBarrel]

Playing in front of 110k fans in a white out where football players are treated as gods in an entire state lives and breathes Penn St football doesn’t hurt either. Especially now with NIL as big as it’s become. Oh and B10 affiliation and the amount of $ that comes along with that. Other than that no difference really.

Agreed, like I said it’s a choice to not see the challenges but trying to compare Syracuse to Penn St is preposterous..

 

[tep624]

Playing in front of 110k fans in a white out where football players are treated as gods in an entire state lives and breathes Penn St football doesn’t hurt either. Especially now with NIL as big as it’s become. Oh and B10 affiliation and the amount of $ that comes along with that. Other than that no difference really.

I’d be curious to see if PSU went through a stretch like we did with GROB / Marrone / Shafer / Dino if they’d be putting 110k in the seats. Again you’re comparing from a success point a consistent top 20 PSU vs. a largely down Syracuse. When the dome was rocking in tbe 90’s it was a pretty unique game experience here and impressive in its own right.

There are certain things we can’t overcome - conference affiliation, NIL pool, state school vibe, but the weather / geographic location / strength of recruiting territory excuses that had been historically thrown around here are just that. We’re likely never going to “be” PSU but we can be a heck of a lot closer than we have been. We just need to keep investing in the program top to bottom and hire hungry coaches that are going to outwork everyone around them.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I’d be curious to see if PSU went through a stretch like we did with GROB / Marrone / Shafer / Dino if they’d be putting 110k in the seats. Again you’re comparing from a success point a consistent top 20 PSU vs. a largely down Syracuse. When the dome was rocking in tbe 90’s it was a pretty unique game experience here and impressive in its own right.

There are certain things we can’t overcome - conference affiliation, NIL pool, state school vibe, but the weather / geographic location / strength of recruiting territory excuses that had been historically thrown around here are just that. We’re likely never going to “be” PSU but we can be a heck of a lot closer than we have been. We just need to keep investing in the program top to bottom and hire hungry coaches that are going to outwork everyone around them.

A lot of people on this board apparently have no first-hand experience with what game day was like when SU was a perennial power.

 

[JimBoston]

The only difference is that Penn State has a recent history of success. Hopefully, Brown will change that.

Besides the Big 10 money, the huge fanbase, and that Penn St is the state university of Pennsylvania and it is located close to many of the best recruiting areas:

3 hours to Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Virginia state line
3.5 hours to Philly, Trenton, NJ, and NYC
4 hours to DC and Cleveland

 

[anomander]

A lot of people on this board apparently have no first-hand experience with what game day was like when SU was a perennial power.

I remember vividly, but times have changed. Even comparing our most recent big games compared to games in the 80’s-90’s vs Miami, VT, Tenn, it wasn’t comparable. You can’t expect some of those people who come to the recent big games as a one off experience to be invested as before when we had a larger, more passionate fan base, that was totally invested into the program/game. Also, a lot of previous season ticket holders, or those that came to big games, were men in the demographic who would be your typical football fan, that we lost do to the closing of many big, well paying, manufacturing plants that we’re all well aware of (Carrier, General Motors, Chrysler, Miller Brewing, Nestle, Kodak, etc). imo that certainly has had an effect. We still struggle to fill the Dome for major games, and the crowds that do come, well engaged, just don’t seem to be invested at the same passionate level as during our best years. I remember not being able to talk to the person next to me throughout large parts of the game. There has definitely been a change and it would be interesting to see if we can be consistently good (8 wins +) for several years if the same enthusiasm, and fanaticism ever returns.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

A lot of people on this board apparently have no first-hand experience with what game day was like when SU was a perennial power.

I think “perennial power” is stretching it a bit. We have had periods of time when we were consistent top 20 team, peaking into to 10 frequently.
Even though we went into the 88 Sugar Bowl undefeated, we weren’t really considered a national championship contender.

 

[Niastri]

I remember vividly, but times have changed. Even comparing our most recent big games compared to games in the 80’s-90’s vs Miami, VT, Tenn, it wasn’t comparable. You can’t expect some of those people who come to the recent big games as a one off experience to be invested as before when we had a larger, more passionate fan base, that was totally invested into the program/game. Also, a lot of previous season ticket holders, or those that came to big games, were men in the demographic who would be your typical football fan, that we lost do to the closing of many big, well paying, manufacturing plants that we’re all well aware of (Carrier, General Motors, Chrysler, Miller Brewing, Nestle, Kodak, etc). imo that certainly has had an effect. We still struggle to fill the Dome for major games, and the crowds that do come, well engaged, just don’t seem to be invested at the same passionate level as during our best years. I remember not being able to talk to the person next to me throughout large parts of the game. There has definitely been a change and it would be interesting to see if we can be consistently good (8 wins +) for several years if the same enthusiasm, and fanaticism ever returns.

If we win 9 games and a bowl this season, next season's home opener will be a big deal in town. Especially if the '26 class is still looking like a top class.

We have been beaten down as a fan base for 20 plus years... It's going to take a little while, but the fans (like me) who were disenchanted will come back strong if we're given a reason.

I hadn't regularly posted on the football side for a long time, but Fran Brown brought me back fast. Other fans not as connected by Syracusefan.com will just take a little longer.

 

[orangemass]

With 105 limit do we load up on 26s?

 

[anomander]

I’ll come out and say it. Does anyone else think we loaded up too quick and weren’t selective enough in certain spots, especially coming off the last years haul that Fran was able to accomplish in mainly a month? We’re already down to around 40 in class rankings, even with 28 commits, and have one of the lowest avg rating per player for any P4 program. I understand some of that may be from taking more NYS kids which are always over looked. For the most part I am fine with all those takes, but I can see a number of possible reaches where I don’t see how holding some spots for later in the cycle where we could possibly add high end players with a big season would have hurt? A big season is certainly within grasp with the schedule and this team’s overall talent. It would be a shame if that happens and we don’t have any spots, or only a select few. I have all the confidence in Fran and this staffs ability to recruit. I would have been a bit more selective for some elite hits. At worst some of the guys we already have would’ve been available towards NSD, or at least similar caliber.

 

[kcsu]

I’ll come out and say it. Does anyone else think we loaded up too quick and weren’t selective enough in certain spots, especially coming off the last years haul that Fran was able to accomplish in mainly a month? We’re already down to around 40 in class rankings, even with 28 commits, and have one of the lowest avg rating per player for any P4 program. I understand some of that may be from taking more NYS kids which are always over looked. For the most part I am fine with all those takes, but I can see a number of possible reaches where I don’t see how holding some spots for later in the cycle where we could possibly add high end players with a big season would have hurt? A big season is certainly within grasp with the schedule and this team’s overall talent. It would be a shame if that happens and we don’t have any spots, or only a select few. I have all the confidence in Fran and this staffs ability to recruit. I would have been a bit more selective for some elite hits. At worst some of the guys we already have would’ve been available towards NSD, or at least similar caliber.

No not at all. Every kid was offered by the staff. A staff filled with coaches that are as good at recruiting as there is in all of college football.
These guys know talent.

 

[anomander]

No not at all. Every kid was offered by the staff. A staff filled with coaches that are as good at recruiting as there is in all of college football.
These guys know talent.

Of course they were offered by the staff. Regardless, we’ll end up ranked where we usually are. Probably around 55-60, but with 28 commits. My point is there are definitely some reaches, or at very worst, guys who would have been there, or those with similar talent, later in the cycle. Why wouldn’t it have hurt to hold an extra 5 spots in case we have a monster season and interest from higher potential athletes, or flips of guys we’ve stayed on. They showed they could do it. Seems like a potential wasted opportunity.

 

[tep624]

Of course they were offered by the staff. Regardless, we’ll end up ranked where we usually are. Probably around 55-60, but with 28 commits. My point is there are definitely some reaches, or at very worst, guys who would have been there, or those with similar talent, later in the cycle. Why wouldn’t it have hurt to hold an extra 5 spots in case we have a monster season and interest from higher potential athletes, or flips of guys we’ve stayed on. They showed they could do it. Seems like a potential wasted opportunity.

I suspect there will be space available if it’s warranted.

 

[gocuse44]

I remember vividly, but times have changed. Even comparing our most recent big games compared to games in the 80’s-90’s vs Miami, VT, Tenn, it wasn’t comparable. You can’t expect some of those people who come to the recent big games as a one off experience to be invested as before when we had a larger, more passionate fan base, that was totally invested into the program/game. Also, a lot of previous season ticket holders, or those that came to big games, were men in the demographic who would be your typical football fan, that we lost do to the closing of many big, well paying, manufacturing plants that we’re all well aware of (Carrier, General Motors, Chrysler, Miller Brewing, Nestle, Kodak, etc). imo that certainly has had an effect. We still struggle to fill the Dome for major games, and the crowds that do come, well engaged, just don’t seem to be invested at the same passionate level as during our best years. I remember not being able to talk to the person next to me throughout large parts of the game. There has definitely been a change and it would be interesting to see if we can be consistently good (8 wins +) for several years if the same enthusiasm, and fanaticism ever returns.

Of course they were offered by the staff. Regardless, we’ll end up ranked where we usually are. Probably around 55-60, but with 28 commits. My point is there are definitely some reaches, or at very worst, guys who would have been there, or those with similar talent, later in the cycle. Why wouldn’t it have hurt to hold an extra 5 spots in case we have a monster season and interest from higher potential athletes, or flips of guys we’ve stayed on. They showed they could do it. Seems like a potential wasted opportunity.

The class will be about 45 ...I think three more guys will be moved to four stars that are currently a fraction behind 4 stars

 

[anomander]

The class will be about 45 ...I think three more guys will be moved to four stars that are currently a fraction behind 4 stars

There is seldom much movement after a rating was given, especially for guys who have been well scouted. I don’t see any big changes. Only Tremble is one i can remember in recent years. QB’s have the most potential, like Sellers a few years ago, and possibly Carney this year. Other than that i’d be surprised if there’s much movement.

As for 45, i don’t see it. I believe we’re 38 now with 28 commits. I don’t know how many more we can possibly add. Unless they’re highly rated top 250 guys it won’t make a difference. We have more commits than almost every other P4 school. We will continue to drop. I predict we’ll finish around 55-60 and one of the bottom 5 lowest avg per ranking for all P4 schools.

 

[jr4750]

Aren’t they expanding the number of rostered players to 105? So class size shouldn’t be an issue…

 

[anglerman]

Of course they were offered by the staff. Regardless, we’ll end up ranked where we usually are. Probably around 55-60, but with 28 commits. My point is there are definitely some reaches, or at very worst, guys who would have been there, or those with similar talent, later in the cycle. Why wouldn’t it have hurt to hold an extra 5 spots in case we have a monster season and interest from higher potential athletes, or flips of guys we’ve stayed on. They showed they could do it. Seems like a potential wasted opportunity.

Are you saying that the guys they have recruited lack athleticism? You think this staff offered kids at this stage in the year that are reach ?? Sounds like you think they’re desperate and offered kids they shouldn’t have.

Could you tell us who the kids are in this class that are a reach ? This class appears to be exceptional to me. You can’t judge a player solely by where he may be ranked by recruiting services.

 

[cusefan88]

I think locked in high-upside guys knowing the scholarship cap is going up. Now they have another 5-10 spots at least for transfers/flips.

 

[CbusCuse]

Of course they were offered by the staff. Regardless, we’ll end up ranked where we usually are. Probably around 55-60, but with 28 commits. My point is there are definitely some reaches, or at very worst, guys who would have been there, or those with similar talent, later in the cycle. Why wouldn’t it have hurt to hold an extra 5 spots in case we have a monster season and interest from higher potential athletes, or flips of guys we’ve stayed on. They showed they could do it. Seems like a potential wasted opportunity.

There is certainly some merit to your post. But another thing to think about is kids don't all get ranked at once early on and then later on teams give offers and accept commitments. There is an argument to be made that if we accepted these kids offers later in the cycle they would be ranked higher. This is not because they would have their rankings changed, but because they may have been ranked higher later on as they wouldn't get an initial ranking until later when they have more offers from additional programs. Many of our kids didn't have a ranking until they signed with us which was early in the cycle. We know for sure that current offers a player has at the time of their ranking plays a big part in the ranking a kid gets. If we waited to accept an offer until later on after they received additional offers, then they likely get ranked higher at that point. Our class would appear better, even though they could have the exact same kids.

If you like a recruit and you don't give him a committable offer that you accept early on and instead wait until later in the cycle you risk a harder recruiting battle. Kids that commit are less likely to keep getting recruited by others as hard and are probably less likely to go back on an offer, especially after creating a more significant bond with a staff.

 

[baggerbob]

There is certainly some merit to your post. But another thing to think about is kids don't all get ranked at once early on and then later on teams give offers and accept commitments. There is an argument to be made that if we accepted these kids offers later in the cycle they would be ranked higher. This is not because they would have their rankings changed, but because they may have been ranked higher later on as they wouldn't get an initial ranking until later when they have more offers from additional programs. Many of our kids didn't have a ranking until they signed with us which was early in the cycle. We know for sure that current offers a player has at the time of their ranking plays a big part in the ranking a kid gets. If we waited to accept an offer until later on after they received additional offers then they likely get ranked higher at that point and our class would appear better even though they could have the exact same kids.

If you like a recruit and you don't give him a committable offer that you accept early on and instead wait until later in the cycle you risk a harder recruiting battle. Kids that commit are less likely to keep getting recruited by others as hard and are probably less likely to go back on an offer, especially after creating a more significant bond with a staff.

Right on and what Anomander doesn't get is because it was Syracuse offering early, the services are still looking at Syracuse offers as secondary offers, and are still rating with that in mind.
This staff unlike past staffs have proven at previous stops they know how to evaluate.
It will take a couple of recruiting cycles for the services to understand how good Fran and company are at evaluating players.
Until then enjoy the ride it's going to be fun again.
As I've said before, was around for Ben, Mac, Coach P, and Deleone, was hoping for a 3rd and it seems Fran fell into our lap.
He covers all the bases, energy, honesty, charismatic, and understands tradition.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think it call comes down to $. I don't think Syracuse is going to spend big NIL $ on freshman recruits. I believe they will use it selectively in the portal as well as retaining current stand outs who are being re-recruited by bigger programs after 2-3 years here

 

[richmondcuse03]

I think it call comes down to $. I don't think Syracuse is going to spend big NIL $ on freshman recruits. I believe they will use it selectively in the portal as well as retaining current stand outs who are being re-recruited by bigger programs after 2-3 years here

Correct. It'll go to retaining to guys first and foremost. If you take a flyer on a guy with measurables and need to keep him, the money should go there and filling needs in the portal. I think most of our NIL will more go to retaining guys so recruiting more every year is going to be necessary.

 

[DocFlanders]

I’ll come out and say it. Does anyone else think we loaded up too quick and weren’t selective enough in certain spots, especially coming off the last years haul that Fran was able to accomplish in mainly a month? We’re already down to around 40 in class rankings, even with 28 commits, and have one of the lowest avg rating per player for any P4 program. I understand some of that may be from taking more NYS kids which are always over looked. For the most part I am fine with all those takes, but I can see a number of possible reaches where I don’t see how holding some spots for later in the cycle where we could possibly add high end players with a big season would have hurt? A big season is certainly within grasp with the schedule and this team’s overall talent. It would be a shame if that happens and we don’t have any spots, or only a select few. I have all the confidence in Fran and this staffs ability to recruit. I would have been a bit more selective for some elite hits. At worst some of the guys we already have would’ve been available towards NSD, or at least similar caliber.

Well if Fran can’t do it we are likely done and will be relegated down a notch during the next round of major movement. I’m sure he is taking who he thinks he can get. Takes a lot of money to compete and it’s becoming clear you will have in the big two conferences to keep that base level of income going as a starting point. NIL from outside will never put us over the top at Syracuse . Enjoy what we have while we have it, whatever that is.

 

[anomander]

Are you saying that the guys they have recruited lack athleticism? You think this staff offered kids at this stage in the year that are reach ?? Sounds like you think they’re desperate and offered kids they shouldn’t have.

Could you tell us who the kids are in this class that are a reach ? This class appears to be exceptional to me. You can’t judge a player solely by where he may be ranked by recruiting services.

Where did i ever say the guys they recruited lack athleticism, or we’re desperate?

I literally said there seems to be 4 or 5 possible reaches where i wouldn’t have minded seeing them hold out for elite kids like who they finished last years class with, especially if we have a big season. The 105 scholarship limit doesn’t go into effect until next year so i don’t see how many more guys we can possibly add. We can all pretty much figure out who the 4 or 5 potential reaches this early in the cycle are.

As for the 105 scholarship rule change starting next year that certainly won’t help us. It will allow the schools who give out NIL deal for HS recruits another leg up and allow the tOSU, Georgia, Bama, etc to load up even more. I don’t see how that rule will help things as it should only make the transfer phenomenon that more out of hand.

 

[anomander]

Right on and what Anomander doesn't get is because it was Syracuse offering early, the services are still looking at Syracuse offers as secondary offers, and are still rating with that in mind.
This staff unlike past staffs have proven at previous stops they know how to evaluate.
It will take a couple of recruiting cycles for the services to understand how good Fran and company are at evaluating players.
Until then enjoy the ride it's going to be fun again.
As I've said before, was around for Ben, Mac, Coach P, and Deleone, was hoping for a 3rd and it seems Fran fell into our lap.
He covers all the bases, energy, honesty, charismatic, and understands tradition.

I understand everything perfectly fine. I literally said i liked all the NYS takes who are all lower rated because they don’t get as much exposure. Again, show me where i said the 5 or so reaches are based off rankings? It’s based off what i’ve watched myself, and the other offers, or lack there of that they may or may not have. For guys like that i think they would be available any time we wanted them, or at least someone similar. Personally, i would have held a handful more spots for potential high end guys that you could possibly add or flip later in the cycle.

If i’m so wrong please go ahead and point out class headliners like we ended up having last year with guys like Edwards, Barnes, Willis, Brown, Hornsby, Tremble, and Ross? Because as our class stands right now i don’t see anyone at the level of those 7.

 

[OrgTruckPat]

Well if Fran can’t do it we are likely done and will be relegated down a notch during the next round of major movement. I’m sure he is taking who he thinks he can get. Takes a lot of money to compete and it’s becoming clear you will have in the big two conferences to keep that base level of income going as a starting point. NIL from outside will never put us over the top at Syracuse . Enjoy what we have while we have it, whatever that is.

Yeah, in all seriousness Fran is the best recruiter we are ever gonna have. If he really cannot do it, hands up and wave the white flag. I dont know if we can ever be good again if Fran doesnt deliver the talent here. Hate to buzz killington but youre right, we had best enjoy whatever it is however long we have it. Hoping Fran can deliver