Class of 2025 Class of 2025 Recruiting Discussion

[ManleyRocks]

One factor that has not been discussed….this class is unusually heavy with offensive and defensive lineman who generally are not historically rated as high as some of the other positions on the field once you get through the top layer. My take is that his has skewed the average a bit lower.

 

[baggerbob]

One factor that has not been discussed….this class is unusually heavy with offensive and defensive lineman who generally are not historically rated as high as some of the other positions on the field once you get through the top layer. My take is that his has skewed the average a bit lower.

13 of the players are OL, and DL. Last year only 17 of 44 were, it makes a difference.

 

[karhre2003]

Why aren't Texas, USC, and Miami in CFB playoff contention every year then? Those are inaccurate top 10 recruiting classes then...

Coaching, the same issue Syracuse had for not being able to maintain any success.

 

[tep624]

Why aren't Texas, USC, and Miami in CFB playoff contention every year then? Those are inaccurate top 10 recruiting classes then...

He said "can be", not "is". You still have to have some coaching talent irrespective of how much talent you're bringing in.

Another thing that the team rankings don't account for is roster balance - I mean technically you could recruit 13 4 star WR's in a class and be ranked in the top 10.

 

[Orijinal]

Why aren't Texas, USC, and Miami in CFB playoff contention every year then? Those are inaccurate top 10 recruiting classes then...

There are exceptions to the rule, as with most things. I am saying generally speaking. There's no exact science

 

[TheCusian]

Stars and ratings are one indicator of the % chance they’ll contribute at the P5 level. Another indicator is measurables. Taken together, you can see a difference.

Hitting on a bunch while hitting the portal is a good way to build. Culture and relationships are more important in the current CFB climate.

Frans got it. Need some wins!

 

[Orijinal]

Okay, I did some cursory research on class recruiting rankings and how they might correlate to top-10 team rankings.

Mind you, I am only taking 1 year of results in each category. So this is obviously not going to be conclusive. I would need more time to dig into it. Anyway, here it goes

The final AP college football rankings for 2023-2024 (Top 10), with their 2021 Rivals class recruiting ranking in parentheses:

1) Michigan (10)
2) Washington (42)
3) Texas (16)
4) Georgia (5)
5) Alabama (1)
6) Oregon (3)
6) Florida State (27)
8) Missouri (19)
9) Mississippi (17)
10) Ohio State (2)

So here we have four of the top-10 teams with a 2021 class recruiting ranking in the top 5

We have eight of the top-10 teams with a 2021 class recruiting ranking in the top 25

We have one team with a class recruiting rank of 27 ...(so top 30), and we have one team as an outlier ...Washington with a class recruiting ranking of 42

Bottom line--for the 2023-2024 season: 90% of the top 10 teams recruited a top 30 class 2 years prior. 80% recruited a top 25 class 2 years prior. And 40% of top-10 teams recruited a top 5 class 2 years prior

There are always outliers (overachievers and underachivers), including in the 2023-2024 season. So coaching still does make a difference. But the bigger indicator (at least in terms of final results in 2023-2024) seems to be how well a program can recruit an entire class

Again, I am not saying this is conclusive. It's only what I have time to research right now

And I will always believe that Syracuse can make the playoffs regardless of class recruiting rankings

 

[tep624]

Okay, I did some cursory research on class recruiting rankings and how they might correlate to top-10 team rankings.

Mind you, I am only taking 1 year of results in each category. So this is obviously not going to be conclusive. I would need more time to dig into it. Anyway, here it goes

The final AP college football rankings for 2023-2024 (Top 10), with their 2021 Rivals class recruiting ranking in parentheses:

1) Michigan (10)
2) Washington (42)
3) Texas (16)
4) Georgia (5)
5) Alabama (1)
6) Oregon (3)
6) Florida State (27)
8) Missouri (19)
9) Mississippi (17)
10) Ohio State (2)

So here we have four of the top-10 teams with a 2021 class recruiting ranking in the top 5

We have eight of the top-10 teams with a 2021 class recruiting ranking in the top 25

We have one team with a class recruiting rank of 27 ...(so top 30), and we have one team as an outlier ...Washington with a class recruiting ranking of 42

Bottom line--for the 2023-2024 season: 90% of the top 10 teams recruited a top 30 class 2 years prior. 80% recruited a top 25 class 2 years prior. And 40% of top-10 teams recruited a top 5 class 2 years prior

There are always outliers (overachievers and underachivers), including in the 2023-2024 season. So coaching still does make a difference. But the bigger indicator (at least in terms of final results in 2023-2024) seems to be how well a program can recruit an entire class

Again, I am not saying this is conclusive. It's only what I have time to research right now

And I will always believe that Syracuse can make the playoffs regardless of class recruiting rankings

Washington is a bit of an outlier too in that the got Penix out of the portal and really only in the last cycle (2024) were the sites comprehensively including transfers in an overall class ranking.

Without Penix, Washington isn't a top 10 team.

And also, I get the argument of chicken or egg here, and I believe that most heavily influences recruits outside the top 250/300 where analysts have a lot more ability to be subjective where they rank players. So using Rivals as an example, you could easily see an under the radar kid only offered by G5's that Alabama falls in love with and offers and lands, who was a 5.4 2 star prior to Alabama offering who is now a 5.7 3 star after - player isn't any different. That absolutely happens.

What I like about Fran and his staff is that they don't necessarily chase after plateaued recruits that have fallen off with the power programs. They'd rather pursue kids who are risers with strong measurables in the NE region that may have been overlooked than tack on a kid from FL who was a 4 star as a Soph whose offers have all dried up with heavier P4 schools because he didn't physically develop as expected or whatever. We saw that with Dino's staff at times where they ignored the tea leaves and tacked on kids that looked good on paper but eventually would never develop into anything. I don't get that feeling at all with Fran.

2 recruits from the '24 class who really intrigue me are Xavier Miles and Fatim Diggs - 2 kids that had some good offers early and basically just vanished on the recruiting scene. It will be really interesting to see what becomes of them.

 

[cusefan88]

Washington is a bit of an outlier too in that the got Penix out of the portal and really only in the last cycle (2024) were the sites comprehensively including transfers in an overall class ranking.

Without Penix, Washington isn't a top 10 team.

And also, I get the argument of chicken or egg here, and I believe that most heavily influences recruits outside the top 250/300 where analysts have a lot more ability to be subjective where they rank players. So using Rivals as an example, you could easily see an under the radar kid only offered by G5's that Alabama falls in love with and offers and lands, who was a 5.4 2 star prior to Alabama offering who is now a 5.7 3 star after - player isn't any different. That absolutely happens.

What I like about Fran and his staff is that they don't necessarily chase after plateaued recruits that have fallen off with the power programs. They'd rather pursue kids who are risers with strong measurables in the NE region that may have been overlooked than tack on a kid from FL who was a 4 star as a Soph whose offers have all dried up with heavier P4 schools because he didn't physically develop as expected or whatever. We saw that with Dino's staff at times where they ignored the tea leaves and tacked on kids that looked good on paper but eventually would never develop into anything. I don't get that feeling at all with Fran.

2 recruits from the '24 class who really intrigue me are Xavier Miles and Fatim Diggs - 2 kids that had some good offers early and basically just vanished on the recruiting scene. It will be really interesting to see what becomes of them.

Hopefully Miles and Maarad Watson become excellent New Jersey DTs to anchor that DL.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Ooof yikes not good for what’s considered a staff of high level recruiters

If anyone can deliver a Top 25 recruiting class at Syracuse it will be Fran Brown and his staff but it's going to take success on the field first. All that said, Syracuse is and always will be a difficult place to land top end talent for reasons discussed at nauseum here.

I still think you will never see a top 25 class at Syracuse again, if anyone can prove that wrong it would be HCFB but he's going to have to prove that he can win games first. Wildhack hired arguably the best 2 recruiters in college football. Nobody out there is going to recruit better at Syracuse than these 2 guys. Just my opinion. The limitations are real, even the best salesmen needs a solid product to push. Makes the job a lot easier. You see it all the time

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Syracuse is and always will be a difficult place to land top end talent for reasons discussed at nauseum here.

B.S. Fran Brown has proved the exact opposite.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

B.S. Fran Brown has proved the exact opposite.

Has he delivered a Top 25 recruiting class? My point and as I said, he's considered the best recruiter in the college game. I love what he has done on the recruiting end, the work he did to close the 24 class ( HS kids and portal) was nothing short of a miracle.

That said, I like the optimism for the 25 class but it does lack star power, no way around it. I have no idea how good some of these kids are nor does anyone here but it's not going to be top 25 class which was my point.

If you think it's easy to recruit at Syracuse, I think you are crazy

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Has he delivered a Top 25 recruiting class? My point and as I said, he's considered the best recruiter in the college game. I love what he has done on the recruiting end, the work he did to close the 24 class ( HS kids and portal) was nothing short of a miracle.

That said, I like the optimism for the 25 class but it does lack star power, no way around it. I have no idea how good some of these kids are nor does anyone here but it's not going to be top 25 class which was my point.

If you think it's easy to recruit at Syracuse, I think you are crazy

I didn't say it was easy. But, the B.S. obstacles people cite, it snows, it's cold, it's the middle of nowhere, are the same faced by Ped State, ND, Michigan, etc.

 

[tep624]

I didn't say it was easy. But, the B.S. obstacles people cite, it snows, it's cold, it's the middle of nowhere, are the same faced by Ped State, ND, Michigan, etc.

Penn St is the prime example if you ask me - in the absolute middle of nowhere, shitty NE weather, basically nothing going on other than the program there. They have all the same challenges that Syracuse does, with conference affiliation really being the only key difference. You could argue that PA is a better recruiting territory too, but other than that, I don't see a ton of difference as far as challenges.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Penn St is the prime example if you ask me - in the absolute middle of nowhere, shitty NE weather, basically nothing going on other than the program there. They have all the same challenges that Syracuse does, with conference affiliation really being the only key difference. You could argue that PA is a better recruiting territory too, but other than that, I don't see a ton of difference as far as challenges.

The only difference is that Penn State has a recent history of success. Hopefully, Brown will change that.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The only difference is that Penn State has a recent history of success. Hopefully, Brown will change that.

it's far from the only difference. the game day experience and the facilities are just a bit different as well. Come on man. Same for ND, Michigan.

I do agree it's most difficult to recruit at Syracuse because we have SUCKED for almost 25 years now. We have been irrelevant other than 1.5 seasons.

 

[007]

The only difference is that Penn State has a recent history of success. Hopefully, Brown will change that.

And history is the biggest obstacle currently impacting recruiting, followed by the revenue dominance, resources, and national perception/prestige of playing in the SEC and BiG (and the blue bloods of the ACC). As we are all painfully aware, SU has a 20+ year history of mostly losing. We are 90-140 since the 2005 season (.39 "winning percentage). That's a very real obstacle that extends well beyond "recent history."

Fran Brown now MUST prove he can win on the field to take recruiting to the next level. To think otherwise ignores the absolute realities that SU faces.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And history is the biggest obstacle currently impacting recruiting, followed by the revenue dominance, resources, and national perception/prestige of playing in the SEC and BiG (and the blue bloods of the ACC). As we are all painfully aware, SU has a 20+ year history of mostly losing. We are 90-140 since the 2005 season (.39 "winning percentage). That's a very real obstacle that extends well beyond "recent history."

Fran Brown now MUST prove he can win on the field to take recruiting to the next level. To think otherwise ignores the absolute realities that SU faces.

Recruiting against Big 10 and SEC schools has never been more difficult either. Choosing to ignore the reality of the current landscape is a choice as well

 

[tep624]

it's far from the only difference. the game day experience and the facilities are just a bit different as well. Come on man. Same for ND, Michigan.

I do agree it's most difficult to recruit at Syracuse because we have SUCKED for almost 25 years now. We have been irrelevant other than 1.5 seasons.

Our facilities aren't bottom of the barrel. Michigan just won a NC and Notre Dame is Notre Dame so those aren't the fairest comparisons, but there's really no reason why we shouldn't be closer to PSU than we are. We were in the ballpark late 80's to early 00's and we just let the program slide.

And honestly that's one of the main reasons Fran took this job - he knows this is possible with the right strategy and the right amount of effort. Part of that strategy is fundraising / investment encouragement.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If anyone can deliver a Top 25 recruiting class at Syracuse it will be Fran Brown and his staff but it's going to take success on the field first. All that said, Syracuse is and always will be a difficult place to land top end talent for reasons discussed at nauseum here.

I still think you will never see a top 25 class at Syracuse again, if anyone can prove that wrong it would be HCFB but he's going to have to prove that he can win games first. Wildhack hired arguably the best 2 recruiters in college football. Nobody out there is going to recruit better at Syracuse than these 2 guys. Just my opinion. The limitations are real, even the best salesmen needs a solid product to push. Makes the job a lot easier. You see it all the time

Isn't Robinson only planning to be here 1-2 years and did this as a favor to Fran? Curious how this all plays out.

 

[Orijinal]

The other thing about Penn State is that it is truly the state's school. Everyone who lives in PA and their mother just LOVE Penn State, even if they have never set foot on campus, and even if they live in the farthest corners of PA (Philadelphia). They all think its the bees knees. It's all kind of strange and cultish if you ask me. I can see all sorts of people getting in a recruit's ear to get them to commit to the Penn

Syracuse, on the other hand ...no one in Buffalo knows what a Syracuse is ...so there's that.

 

[baggerbob]

Isn't Robinson only planning to be here 1-2 years and did this as a favor to Fran? Curious how this all plays out.

Fran said at the beginning he wants his assistants moving on to Head Coaching jobs.
If Syracuse does what Fran wants be good to great every year, he expects his assistants to move up.

 

[721Comstock]

Fran said at the beginning he wants his assistants moving on to Head Coaching jobs.
If Syracuse does what Fran wants be good to great every year, he expects his assistants to move up.

144% THIS.

Fran specifically said that he'd "be lucky" if he gets to keep ERob for 3 years.

You absolutely want your assistants getting promotions and offers -
it means you're winning games and doing well overall as a program.

 

[tep624]

144% THIS.

Fran specifically said that he'd "be lucky" if he gets to keep ERob for 3 years.

You absolutely want your assistants getting promotions and offers -
it means you're winning games and doing well overall as a program.

Well and it means your assistants are in demand.

If you want a bunch of guys no one else wants, yeah you'll have continuity but not much else.

 

[anomander]

The only difference is that Penn State has a recent history of success. Hopefully, Brown will change that.

Playing in front of 110k fans in a white out where football players are treated as gods in an entire state lives and breathes Penn St football doesn’t hurt either. Especially now with NIL as big as it’s become. Oh and B10 affiliation and the amount of $ that comes along with that. Other than that no difference really.