Clemson outsider's take on your facilities debate (long)

[PeteCalvin]

Stadium expansion is a ridiculous notion in Syracuse. We will never need more than 50,000 seats. That's the reality. Also, people don't want to go sit outside in the cold to watch a football game here. We may someday get a brand new, multi-purpose stadium on South Campus to replace the Dome, but it won't exceed the current seating capacity, IMHO. I have always said that the Dome is a unique experience in college sports, both in BBall AND Football. It's the vast size and big crowds that give us the home court advantage in basketball, and it's the close, right on the action crowd noise that gives us the advantage in football. As I stated in another thread not too long ago, the Carrier Dome, when packed and rowdy, is the Cameron Indoor of college football. Just because it's small compared to venues in other conferences doesn't mean it's not relevant or effective. I love The Dome for football.

 

[cto]

You don't get donations after the fact. Why does someone want to donate to a building that's all done? What's the point? Are they going to tear it down?

There are always new naming rights opportunities. There are still some rooms that could use names.

 

[mountaincuse]

There are always new naming rights opportunities. There are still some rooms that could use names.

Good, because while I can't pony up that much money now, when I'm retired (or wildly successful in the near future) I hope to make up for it.

The Mountain Suite has a nice ring to it

 

[sufandu]

SU has to find a way to attract a couple of large donors and significantly increase the number of small donors. That is SU's fault.

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Is that realistic? Aren't most of these large donors, rabid fans for the schools they donate to? How much effort do these other schools have to put forth to get them? It seems more realistic to say they could do a better job of reaching out to small donors, but if someone is going to give something like $5-10 million dollars for the football team, wouldn't that person already be a huge football fan and aware of the need?

 

[rrlbees]

Is that realistic? Aren't most of these large donors, rabid fans for the schools they donate to? How much effort do these other schools have to put forth to get them? It seems more realistic to say they could do a better job of reaching out to small donors, but if someone is going to give something like $5-10 million dollars for the football team, wouldn't that person already be a huge football fan and aware of the need?

It's realistic if you want major facility changes.

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[jekelish]

Is 64 likes on a single post a record? It's got to be close, right?

 

[mountaincuse]

Is 64 likes on a single post a record? It's got to be close, right?

Most I'm aware of and I just realized I never liked it, so now it's 65

 

[sufandu]

It's realistic if you want major facility changes.

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I'll take your word for it. You're a lot closer to the program than I am. I hope they show up sooner rather than later.

 

[Boston Tiger]

Is that realistic? Aren't most of these large donors, rabid fans for the schools they donate to? How much effort do these other schools have to put forth to get them? It seems more realistic to say they could do a better job of reaching out to small donors, but if someone is going to give something like $5-10 million dollars for the football team, wouldn't that person already be a huge football fan and aware of the need?

As an alum of another school that hit bottom before they committed to upgrading their football program, I can tell you that you have to have a mix of big donors and small if you want things to take off. LSU was in the doldrums in the 1990s, since the AD at the time was doing everything in his power to limit the impact of the big donors in the TAF (Tiger Athletic Foundation). He knew that if he started depending on them, Joe Fan would get priced out of his cheap seats in Tiger Stadium. We went through a decade of lousy football teams, and eventually he moved on and we got an AD and university president who recognized that changes were needed to compete in modern day college football. They also went out and stole a coach named Nick Saban from Michigan State, and NTP insisted that the TAF invest in the necessary infrastructure changes that would help land recruits. They first built an outstanding academic support center for all athletes (it includes some rooms available for the general student population as well).

Next up was a state of the art football practice facility across from Tiger Stadium. The funny thing about that is that NTP left for the Dolphins the year that his football palace was finished. But the investments made at that time continue to pay off in spades, since my set of Tigers continue to compete at the highest level. (There are some problems with that, since some fans now consider anything less that a BCS title to be a failed season.)

Finally, congrats to the original poster for the Peach Bowl win. That was a heartbreaker for LSU fans, but at least I was still on a high from the fantastic time I had in the Bronx a few days earlier. I never thought I would enjoy watching a snow bowl as much as I did. I'm now 4-0 in bowl games that I've attended in person.

 

[omniorange]

Did u miss the part about the capital campaign?

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While this wasn't directed at me, I do have a question that maybe you or someone more in the know can answer.

The public launch of the Syracuse University 1 billion dollar Capital Campaign began in October of 2007. The public launch doesn't happen until the private part of the campaign has raised at least half of the money targeted behind the scenes.

To my knowledge, athletic facilities (including the indoor practice facility) were a part of the capital campaign that just ended in December of this year under the Building Futures part of the campaign. These facility projects that got started (which means there was enough money donated to do these projects) during the entire run of the capital campaign included the Melo Center, Ernie Davis Hall Construction, Football Weight Room Addition, Lampley Athletics renovations, and Manley Training Room renovations.

It doesn't seem to me there was a lack of effort in getting things out there in the capital campaign. So why did some projects get the money raised while the indoor practice facility apparently did not get enough?

Are we sure this is a donor issue entirely?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Briggsky]

UL has built new facilities for all major sports in the last ten years. In total we have spent 1.2 million on buildings in ten years. Some 300 million went to athletic facilities. Our incoming class has 70% of the students living on campus.

Our expansion story started some 15 years ago by a large fund raising drive for the university of 275 million which eventually took our endowment to around a billion dollars. We had the opportunity to play in Freedom Hall which the state built on our fairgrounds. We wern't out of the top five in attendance for some 50 years. Usually top three. Freedom Hall was upgraded by the State Fair Board. Because of large shows early in the year we always ended up having to play five of our last six or games on the road.

This state government is run by KY fans and they really don't care what happens to UL. UK has always gotten more money per student in spite of the fact that UL leads in Science endowments, ACT scores and has had 35 Fulbright Scholars in the last three years. We have done it mostly on our own. Our expenditures on buildings have far more than doubled the school down the road.

Our latest facility the YUM center was built with commitments from our Mayor, local businesses and especially UL fans and graduates. YUM put up the first 15 million for naming rights, while the city raised taxes on downtown businesses and the state backed a 200 million bond. The majority though was put up by fans buying suites and putting up front money for tickets. Our basketball tickets have always been the highest of all schools. We've sold out season tickets every year and now have 8,300 on the waiting list. We also have to put up $200.00 to a $1,000 just for the right to buy tickets for a great number of the seats. Consequently our basketball program has brought in over 40 million for the athletic program the last two years. As long as there are sufficient seats for students I can live with that. No other program in the US comes within 15 million of that.

The University is over 230 years old and we simply got tired of waiting for the state to help us. It takes a great effort from the school, the Mayor and especially the fans to get this done. Like Syracuse we were blessed with a coach who never wanted to be anywhere else for 35 years. In over 40 years we have had only two coaches.

Without Tom Jurich (AD) we would still be playing at our old facilities and not bringing in some 80 million dollars. We offer 527 scholarships which is in the top 5% in terms of student athletic aid. UL has won 56 conference championships in it's short stay in the Big East. Our coaches graduate their players and do things the right way. Rick has never had a one and done player and Charlie is already a Louisvillian and will be here from now on.

Although the coaches pay is stupid, you have to pay the going rate if you have one who will do the job. We can like it or not, but money drives sports and to build a program you need lots of it, but we do love our Cards.

 

[Czar]

Stadium expansion is a ridiculous notion in Syracuse. We will never need more than 50,000 seats. That's the reality. Also, people don't want to go sit outside in the cold to watch a football game here. We may someday get a brand new, multi-purpose stadium on South Campus to replace the Dome, but it won't exceed the current seating capacity, IMHO. I have always said that the Dome is a unique experience in college sports, both in BBall AND Football. It's the vast size and big crowds that give us the home court advantage in basketball, and it's the close, right on the action crowd noise that gives us the advantage in football. As I stated in another thread not too long ago, the Carrier Dome, when packed and rowdy, is the Cameron Indoor of college football. Just because it's small compared to venues in other conferences doesn't mean it's not relevant or effective. I love The Dome for football.

I agree to an extent. We really don't need any more than 45-55k seats. What's good with that though, is that we can build a stadium that looks really good because of that. Large, 80k stadiums due to the amount of sight lines and people needed don't have much in the way of flexibility in how to build the thing and make it look unique. With only 50k fans to worry about, you have less fans to fit in the same space, and more opportunity to create something unique architecturally that could be awesome. Something like the Estadio Municipal de Braga, but Syracuse style, would be awesome.