Clemson Postgame

[SUFan44]

Btw, I really want to know the catastrophic events that would have happened if we had bucked JB and hired an outside hire. Because between the end of JB’s tenure and with Red so far, it’s been pretty awful.

I’m serious - can someone tell me?

I keep hearing how hell would come down upon the earth due to it.

But Syracuse basketball is literally only the memories of years gone by at this point.

Been asking the same question - nobody seems to want to answer it.

 

[Dr. Bill]

evergreen post

Stop with this out coached nonsense! Players win games! What coaching strategy did Red deploy...or didn't deploy, that had he done so, we would have won? Clemson won because they scored more points than Syracuse. Simple as that. Coaching had nothing to do with that loss. Cuse fans need to recognize that the game has changed dramatically from our glory years. We may never get to that level again and the Coach is a very small part of this dynamic. Players are signing with schools and moving from schools based on Cash!! Our check book can only do so much. Sadly, this is our new norm. The Syracuse Block "S" doesn't carry the Swag that it did back in the heyday of the Big East. High School recruiting is less significant in this NIL/Portal era. We have to figure out how to adjust. More Cash would help...

 

[Scooch]

Been asking the same question - nobody seems to want to answer it.

I never thought it was just about JB. Rather, it was about his legion of loyal former players and the JB-connected boosters.

I mean, Derrick Coleman went off the rails last season and started crap with Eddie Lampkin. Guys like him, Etan, and a few dozen others probably would have sniped at the program endlessly had Red been bypassed.

Maybe it wouldn’t have mattered. Maybe a different HC would have shrugged it off and done well.

But let’s not forget that the mere act of getting JB out the door was very difficult and required a deft touch. If many board members and boosters had their way, Boeheim would still be the coach right now!

The guy said he’d decide when he leaves mere days before he was pushed out. And make no mistake, he was pushed out. But to do so required politics and Red was the means to that end.

That’s the truth.

I’ll add to this… there was a reason Red was publicly considered the coach in waiting. It was because JB was deep into his 70s and recruiting players was increasingly difficult given that uncertainty. Once you do that it’s tough to jettison the aforementioned CiW, especially when the guy is a beloved alum.

 

[nocohalo]

Opposing coach pressers might be the biggest indictment of the current state of things. They all basically talk about Autry like he’s special needs playing with Lincoln logs for the first time.

 

[Dinkyspond]

We are 2-8 in our last 10 football games vs Clemson. We are also 2-8 in our last 10 BBall games.

I guess be glad at least for 4 wins and we're not 0-20

 

[DilemaCuse]

Btw, I really want to know the catastrophic events that would have happened if we had bucked JB and hired an outside hire. Because between the end of JB’s tenure and with Red so far, it’s been pretty awful.

I’m serious - can someone tell me?

I keep hearing how hell would come down upon the earth due to it.

But Syracuse basketball is literally only the memories of years gone by at this point.

I think TrueBlue or some frequent poster said scorched earth...like what does that mean?

JB going on PTI to motherF SU and JW?
Ok, big deal, the news cycle would move on so quickly and he would be old man yelling at the clouds.

A lawsuit? Should be easy to settle that and send on his way, he didn't have a big remaining buyout on his contract.

Hope his allies on the BOT like losing.

 

[Knicks411]

He went from 38% from three and 40% from two to 41% and 43%. Neither is indicative of an improvement beyond what you’d expect from a 5th year senior. Using his junior year stats (his high from 3), he was 40% from three and 39% from two.

There is no chance you tried to use his career average here as a meaningful comparison.

So you don’t think 54% true shooting in his last year here to 62% at Clemson is an improvement?

 

[Dinkyspond]

Girard knows the deal with coaching

It's a veiled shot at Autry. Autry told him he didn't want him for a 5th year, he was not the type of player that would fit in his new uptempo, fast breaking offense. So Joe went to Clemson had a great year and went to the Elite 8 while Autry will end his SU coaching career never making an NCAAT. And we don't even have an uptempo, fastbreaking offense. We have a standaround, stagnant, 1-on-1 iso ball or jack up a forced or contested jumper.

 

[Dr. Bill]

This is wrong. Coaching matters MORE in an era of constant roster turnover, not less.

Once upon a time you landed a few great players and the team was set for 3-4 years. Now a coach has to not only recruit players but also get disparate pieces to be functional and thrive within weeks of them assembling on campus.

A different SU coach would make a huge difference with this team. If you can’t see that I can’t help you.

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

 

[DilemaCuse]

We would have had a whiny loud mouth retired coach bitching and moaning at any misstep from the new coach.

Psst, please, big deal. If the new coach was winning better than JB was at the end he would just be a sour grapes curmudgeon.

You don't make a hiring decision based on if the old coach is gonna whine and not like the new coach. The JB idol worshipping should have ended a long time ago yet it will negatively effect the program for 3+ years after his departure

 

[SUFan44]

I say all the time that I’m not a knowledgeable Xs and Os guy. And yet today I could easily see the vast discrepancy in coaching between the two teams.

There will be a few contrarians who won’t admit Red stinks because he talked to them at events. And they’ll pin things on NIL or facilities or whatever. But it’s very clear he’s just simply not even close to good enough.

Sadly that’s been obvious since the very first year. Judah’s one-man band offense and quite possibly the worst ACC in history masked a lot.

 

[orange79]

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

TBF, you are talking about JB in the prime of his coaching life. He could show up on the doorstep of 5-stars and they would commit.

It doesn't work that way anymore. Too much TV, too many schools, too much money.

These days, especially in the college game as it is currently constituted, good coaching is not just important, it is a necessity.

 

[HyattsCuse]

It's a veiled shot at Autry. Autry told him he didn't want him for a 5th year, he was not the type of player that would fit in his new uptempo, fast breaking offense. So Joe went to Clemson had a great year and went to the Elite 8 while Autry will end his SU coaching career never making an NCAAT.

Highly doubtful to the point that’s a rather ridiculous interpretation, IMO. I mean break down his post:

- Brownell designed some nice plays today especially out of TOs.

- That RJ guy is huge.

- If you look at Syracuse’s schedule, they could very well still run off 4-5 wins in a row.

He comes off as impartial between his two schools and states the same points that have been written many times by people on this very message board.

 

[OttosShoes]

TBF, you are talking about JB in the prime of his coaching life. He could show up on the doorstep of 5-stars and they would commit.

It doesn't work that way anymore. Too much TV, too many schools, too much money.

These days, especially in the college game as it is currently constituted, good coaching is not just important, it is a necessity.

Totally, and I'd add analytics.

Clemson repeatedly came out of timeouts and took advantage. Our defense isn't weak. They knew what we were going to do and how to counter it.

 

[Newhouser]

Sco

I think TrueBlue or some frequent poster said scorched earth...like what does that mean?

JB going on PTI to motherF SU and JW?
Ok, big deal, the news cycle would move on so quickly and he would be old man yelling at the clouds.

A lawsuit? Should be easy to settle that and send on his way, he didn't have a big remaining buyout on his contract.

Hope his allies on the BOT like losing.

Plus anyone who resides outside of Upstate NY has thought JB was more than a dinosaur for years. What scorched earth would people pay attention to?

 

[Cuse1055]

Stop with this out coached nonsense! Players win games! What coaching strategy did Red deploy...or didn't deploy, that had he done so, we would have won? Clemson won because they scored more points than Syracuse. Simple as that. Coaching had nothing to do with that loss. Cuse fans need to recognize that the game has changed dramatically from our glory years. We may never get to that level again and the Coach is a very small part of this dynamic. Players are signing with schools and moving from schools based on Cash!! Our check book can only do so much. Sadly, this is our new norm. The Syracuse Block "S" doesn't carry the Swag that it did back in the heyday of the Big East. High School recruiting is less significant in this NIL/Portal era. We have to figure out how to adjust. More Cash would help...

I think Dr. Bill is actually Dr. Jim….

 

[sweetpea]

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

Then Red has to get better talent. Outside of maybe Donnie there is no go to guy at all. We don't even have a Tyus or Elijah on this squad. How long do we wait for Red to get this elite talent?

 

[DilemaCuse]

We have no more margin of error. It’s go find 10-12 wins in a row or bust now.

Yeah right, we're gonna win 10-12 in a row with Red, lol

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah right, we're gonna win 10-12 in a row with Red, lol

Of course we aren’t that wasn’t my point of whether we can.

 

[phsyra]

we cant win 10 in a row because every game will be close because we cant hit free throws or 3 pointers...and you lose 50% of toss up games...the writing is on the wall

 

[Cuse1055]

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

Red has signed talent, both from HS ranks (Donnie and Sadiq) and the portal (George led the ACC in assists). It’s what he has done (and hasn’t done) to ensure they’re successful and help them improve while they’re here that’s lacking. Boeheim took MANY under the radar recruits and put them in positions to succeed above expectations. Names like Moten, Hak, Damone Brown, Shumpert and Etan come to mind to just name a few. Coaching will ALWAYS matter, now more than ever. Watch one of our offensive positions and ask yourself if anyone has any clue what they are running. That comes from coaching. I’m tired of the excuses, it’s ridiculous.

 

[wiCuse]

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

Why stop at 10? Wes Johnson, Dion Waiters, Donte Green, Jonny Flynn. Heck, we could use Craig Forth on this team. None of it matters without a decent coach. We never score off an inbound play or out of a timeout. Our sets are embarrassing. You now see other teams identifying how to attack us on defense. Even with JB's iso ball, he identified the other team's weak defensive player or went with the hot hand. These are all qualities of an effective coach.

 

[Mr. M]

Just a horrific loss.
-our starting guards are laughable. JJ and George were a combined 4-16 from the field with 3 incredibly costly turnovers each. One for 5 combined from three. Both had horrific shot selection. Worse both were terrible on the defensive end, particularly in the most critical parts of the game.. They literally cost us the game.
-meanwhile, Kingz is absolutely underutilized. We don’t do anything to get him the ball. He is the best on ball defender on our team. Yet he plays 28 minutes to JJ‘s 34.
-of course we don’t do anything to get anybody the ball. We bring the ball up and give it to Kyle or Souare at the top of the key which effectively kills 15 seconds on the shot clock because neither one of those guys can do anything with the ball out there. There is nothing approaching ball movement, moving without the ball or proper spacing. Our offense is a complete disaster.
-on the bright side Donnie had an incredible second half. As many of us said repeatedly, it was critical for him to get some run against a lesser opponent to knock off the rust. Of course that didn’t happen. Hopefully the second half will be the guy we see the rest of the year. He has to learn that going to the basket is his friend as opposed to the fall away. But he played with heart and clearly cares. We need him to get drafted this year so he doesn’t leave via the portal so we can get some new blood in the league.
-this was the definition of winnable game. We make the same mistakes every game. Guys are not put in a position to succeed and they’re not held accountable, Rooting for this program is in my blood, but it is beyond exhausting and frustrating.

This

 

[gward]

It’s like one of my old relationships , I kept hoping things will change , but it’s more of the same crazy ass sh- t. This guy Red needs to go . I’m developing a drinking problem again. Kidding ,but this whisky is a temporary solution to bad coaching.

 

[Scooch]

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

Explain to me how this roster is worse than Hofstra. Then get back to me about coaching.