Clemson Postgame

[DilemaCuse]

would JB really want some hotshot coming in after him and winning right away?


what if his successor actually won a natty quickly?

might tarnish his legacy

JB wanting red to take over is crazy to me. JB knows basketball so well...he cant think red is a good option here...so then how could he want him?

No, but that isnt in his power, he was run off. Too bad if your successor does better than you, your not in management anymore.

Red comes from his coaching tree, he wants some one from his tree to have an opportunity. JB wants what's best for JB.

 

[5OutFred]

I believe part of Red's downfall, attributed to coaching style, is the lack of quality assistants on staff, save maybe Straughn's recruiting. New coaches must have a staff of experienced strategists to aid their first few years, and Red didn't achieve that.

When given the chance to expand the staff, he only promoted the DOBO. You can be a delegator as HC, but you better have the staff to do the rest. Red does not.

 

[JustPherU]

Stop with this out coached nonsense! Players win games! What coaching strategy did Red deploy...or didn't deploy, that had he done so, we would have won? Clemson won because they scored more points than Syracuse. Simple as that. Coaching had nothing to do with that loss. Cuse fans need to recognize that the game has changed dramatically from our glory years. We may never get to that level again and the Coach is a very small part of this dynamic. Players are signing with schools and moving from schools based on Cash!! Our check book can only do so much. Sadly, this is our new norm. The Syracuse Block "S" doesn't carry the Swag that it did back in the heyday of the Big East. High School recruiting is less significant in this NIL/Portal era. We have to figure out how to adjust. More Cash would help...

Come on Doc it’s pretty obvious that Red ain’t cut out for this.Nice guy but nice guys finish last sometimes.

 

[sdhall01]

Stop with this out coached nonsense! Players win games! What coaching strategy did Red deploy...or didn't deploy, that had he done so, we would have won? Clemson won because they scored more points than Syracuse. Simple as that. Coaching had nothing to do with that loss. Cuse fans need to recognize that the game has changed dramatically from our glory years. We may never get to that level again and the Coach is a very small part of this dynamic. Players are signing with schools and moving from schools based on Cash!! Our check book can only do so much. Sadly, this is our new norm. The Syracuse Block "S" doesn't carry the Swag that it did back in the heyday of the Big East. High School recruiting is less significant in this NIL/Portal era. We have to figure out how to adjust. More Cash would help...

I love the theory that coaching doesn’t matter. Keep posting through your feelings.

 

[AZOrange]

I really want to think the best of Red. I want to believe that he’s a smart guy who sees our issues clearly, but just can’t figure out how to teach the solutions to our players.

But for the first time I’m thinking that maybe he isn’t as savvy as I thought. No one can look at our offense and claim that it’s operating well. Not when we rank in the low 300s for assists and 3 point shooting.

You cants had assists if you don’t pass the ball or make any shots

 

[Jake]

I laughed when I saw someone ask Clemsons coach about our offense. He tried to defend the movement and all I could think was, “acc coaches must love having an automatic win on the schedule.”

Hah. Some of us remember JB defending Don Perno…because he was an auto-W.

 

[Day2]

I think TrueBlue or some frequent poster said scorched earth...like what does that mean?

JB going on PTI to motherF SU and JW?
Ok, big deal, the news cycle would move on so quickly and he would be old man yelling at the clouds.

A lawsuit? Should be easy to settle that and send on his way, he didn't have a big remaining buyout on his contract.

Hope his allies on the BOT like losing.

As long as they get good seats.

 

[Knicks411]

I love the theory that coaching doesn’t matter. Keep posting through your feelings.

It’s funny that some people want to simultaneously hold the opinion that coaching doesn’t matter but also we can’t possibly fire the coach

 

[Day2]

Stop with this out coached nonsense! Players win games! What coaching strategy did Red deploy...or didn't deploy, that had he done so, we would have won? Clemson won because they scored more points than Syracuse. Simple as that. Coaching had nothing to do with that loss. Cuse fans need to recognize that the game has changed dramatically from our glory years. We may never get to that level again and the Coach is a very small part of this dynamic. Players are signing with schools and moving from schools based on Cash!! Our check book can only do so much. Sadly, this is our new norm. The Syracuse Block "S" doesn't carry the Swag that it did back in the heyday of the Big East. High School recruiting is less significant in this NIL/Portal era. We have to figure out how to adjust. More Cash would help...

This is gaslighting. Simple as that.

Red could:
1. Run an actual offense
2. Stop with the hockey line changes
3. Play Kingz at the 2 and Betsey at the 3
4. Play White more
5. Play Starling less

While I could go on, let’s talk about talent. There’s enough talent on this roster to comfortably make the tournament. And we would make the tournament with a replacement level coach. Are you familiar with that concept? Autry’s value over replacement level is in the negatives. Meaning if we hired someone off the street, we would improve.

People on this board see things Autry cannot. That’s a problem. Apparently you can’t see those things either.

Last point: Autry’s strength is recruiting. If you think there’s a talent gap, then you have your own reason for firing Autry.

 

[ar inj]

Stop with this out coached nonsense! Players win games! What coaching strategy did Red deploy...or didn't deploy, that had he done so, we would have won? Clemson won because they scored more points than Syracuse. Simple as that. Coaching had nothing to do with that loss. Cuse fans need to recognize that the game has changed dramatically from our glory years. We may never get to that level again and the Coach is a very small part of this dynamic. Players are signing with schools and moving from schools based on Cash!! Our check book can only do so much. Sadly, this is our new norm. The Syracuse Block "S" doesn't carry the Swag that it did back in the heyday of the Big East. High School recruiting is less significant in this NIL/Portal era. We have to figure out how to adjust. More Cash would help...

Keep drinking the eggnog Doc because what you are prescribing ain’t going to work. Coaching matters.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I beg to differ. When things are going not as well as one would like...change the Coach...is always the first answer. I agree that the ability of a coach to adapt to changing rosters every year, is an important trait, but that will not equate to winning if you are unable to sign top talent. this roster is much better than last years...but name me one player on this current roster who is as dynamic a player as:
1) Ronny Seikley
2) Derrick Coleman
3) Stevie Thompson
4) Billy Owens
Three of those four played on the same team
5) Lawrence Moton
6) Pearl Washington
7) Sherman Douglass
8) Melo
9) John Wallace
10) G Mac
Not a single player on this roster. If you think so, I would love to hear your thoughts. Several of these players in this list played on the same team. The point is the talent that we are getting these days doesn't match up to the talent we used to get. Easy to blame the Coach. Until that changes, Syracuse will be a team that we wish would win and excite like the old days.

This is e entirely specious and illogical. Our 2025-26 team doesn’t have to be as good as a previous SU team. It has to be better than the teams on the 2025-26 schedule.

Yes, it’s true—we don’t have NBA talent. Maybe not even first team ACC talent. And that’s irrelevant in a loss to Hofstra. How much NBA talent was on Clemson today? No team we have losses against this year had any talent like Coleman, Owens, “Moton,” or Pearl.

Yes, it’s easy to blame the coach, especially when we saw time after time that Brownell was able to draw up or call a play that so easily shredded us, and Red had maybe one such successful instance. Kinda hard to ignore that and I don’t know why a fan would. Do you see our offense differently than the rest of us? Our PG averaged 6.5 assists last season, and is significantly below that now, because he doesn’t have an effective structure to work with. If we had supreme talent, we could sometimes overcome that. We don’t, because supreme talent wants to go to a program that can win and can utilize talent effectively. Our coaching staff doesn’t have a CV for that.

 

[Brooky03]

So you don’t think 54% true shooting in his last year here to 62% at Clemson is an improvement?

I think it’s skewed by his jump in FT shooting which has nothing to do with coaching (or conditioning).

But you know that. And your response didn’t address the intentionally misleading nature of your use of career stats at SU.

Also, his SU high water mark as a Junior was 56% TS, establishing at the very least that a few point swing is normal without any change in coaching/system.

So, let me get this right; your argument to support that he was misused here and fared much better at Clemson is a couple percentage point improvement over expected/likely, bolstered by better FT shooting?


To be extra clear about the hairs we’re splitting here, this evidence that Clemson did such a better job with a 5th year senior is 1 more point per game, in 1 less minute, on 0.5 fewer shots… compared to the same player 2 years less experienced. Defensive metrics don’t point to any noticeable improvement either (and are also notoriously tricky to parse out from team defense). He turned the ball over less at Clemson but also got worse at creating turnovers (steals) and setting up others to score (assists).

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nah, Louisville and Kenny Payne is a tough bar to clear.

But they didn't let that situation fester, did they?

 

[sdhall01]

It’s funny that some people want to simultaneously hold the opinion that coaching doesn’t matter but also we can’t possibly fire the coach

People like Red. I GET IT. I like Red as a person and the face of the program, too. I also loved Dino as the face of the program, and I wanted him after we fired HCSS. People need to learn to let go.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Then Red has to get better talent. Outside of maybe Donnie there is no go to guy at all. We don't even have a Tyus or Elijah on this squad. How long do we wait for Red to get this elite talent?

Please. We have 3 McD's AA's, an All ACC PG, and a 4 star scorer.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is e entirely specious and illogical. Our 2025-26 team doesn’t have to be as good as a previous SU team. It has to be better than the teams on the 2025-26 schedule.

Yes, it’s true—we don’t have NBA talent. Maybe not even first team ACC talent. And that’s irrelevant in a loss to Hofstra. How much NBA talent was on Clemson today? No team we have losses against this year had any talent like Coleman, Owens, “Moton,” or Pearl.

Yes, it’s easy to blame the coach, especially when we saw time after time that Brownell was able to draw up or call a play that so easily shredded us, and Red had maybe one such successful instance. Kinda hard to ignore that and I don’t know why a fan would. Do you see our offense differently than the rest of us? Our PG averaged 6.5 assists last season, and is significantly below that now, because he doesn’t have an effective structure to work with. If we had supreme talent, we could sometimes overcome that. We don’t, because supreme talent wants to go to a program that can win and can utilize talent effectively. Our coaching staff doesn’t have a CV for that.

How do you rate players? We have McDonald's AA's in Donnie, JJ and Sadiq. We have an All-ACC PG in George, and a guy who shot 40+% from three in the Pac 10.

How much better talent than that do you think we need to get?
How many teams, out of 320, have that much talent?
Usually when you have this kind of talent, you're competing for a Top 4 seed.
We, clearly, are not.

Looking at those ratings, this team should be on par with the 2006-07 team, with Dontae Greene, Jonny Flynn, Paul Harris, Eric Devendorf, Terrence Roberts and Mookie Watkins. They didn't make the tournament, but they played a lot better than this team does.

 

[sdhall01]

Please. We have 3 McD's AA's, an All ACC PG, and a 4 star scorer.

We’re used to our players getting better throughout the year. That’s not the case anymore. Who is the last player that really developed at Syracuse? Tyus Battle?

 

[Sdot]

We’re used to our players getting better throughout the year. That’s not the case anymore. Who is the last player that really developed at Syracuse? Tyus Battle?

Jesse’s Edwards or Judah mintz

 

[phsyra]

we cant dribble, we cant pass, and we cant shoot...signs of a well coached team

 

[Zelda Zonk]

How do you rate players? We have McDonald's AA's in Donnie, JJ and Sadiq. We have an All-ACC PG in George, and a guy who shot 40+% from three in the Pac 10.

How much better talent than that do you think we need to get?
How many teams, out of 320, have that much talent?
Usually when you have this kind of talent, you're competing for a Top 4 seed.
We, clearly, are not.

Looking at those ratings, this team should be on par with the 2006-07 team, with Dontae Greene, Jonny Flynn, Paul Harris, Eric Devendorf, Terrence Roberts and Mookie Watkins. They didn't make the tournament, but they played a lot better than this team does.

I don’t think you and I are in disagreement here.

I’m not really rating them. I noted that Donnie is not on top 50 draft boards recently. McD or not, what i said is that we don’t have first team All-ACC players. Sadiq has promise, but he’s not there yet—this year. A McD freshman is still a freshman. We aren’t getting Pac10 40% or George’s 6.5 assists. And JJ isn’t playing consistently well.

I do think we have better talent that Hofstra and Clemson. We have better talent than is exemplified by our play. Which I have consistently attributed to poor coaching. Seems clear that the players we brought in were better in their previous environments.

“How much better talent do we need to get?” To what end? We need better talent than we have to compensate for the ineptitudes of the staff.

I have no way of comparing this team to 2006-07. Different era, different competition, different styles.

 

[elimunelson]

Didn’t JAB love PJ Carlesimo and he had a 85% win rate against him.

 

[Newhouser]

we cant dribble, we cant pass, and we cant shoot...signs of a well coached team

And an extremely talented one.

 

[kcsu]

Hate to post this as ilke Red
But.
Good Dog Can't Hunt

 

[Cuse1055]

How do you rate players? We have McDonald's AA's in Donnie, JJ and Sadiq. We have an All-ACC PG in George, and a guy who shot 40+% from three in the Pac 10.

How much better talent than that do you think we need to get?
How many teams, out of 320, have that much talent?
Usually when you have this kind of talent, you're competing for a Top 4 seed.
We, clearly, are not.

Looking at those ratings, this team should be on par with the 2006-07 team, with Dontae Greene, Jonny Flynn, Paul Harris, Eric Devendorf, Terrence Roberts and Mookie Watkins. They didn't make the tournament, but they played a lot better than this team does.

I get your point and agree, but you’re merging two different teams and seasons. Donte’ and Jonny didn’t come until 07-08, which was the year after Terrence, Mookie and Demetris left. 07-08 is also the season Devo tore his ACL, as did Rautins in the summer. Both 06-07 and 07-08 teams didn’t make the tourney, but definitely were on the bubble and probably the first team out (remember 06-07 was the screw job year). These seasons were followed up by our next golden age beginning in 08-09.

 

[richard levy]

I watched him at Clemson. He was in better shape. But the real problem was Boeheim misusing him terribly.

true, he dropped some weight at Clemson, it was noticeable. I remember watching them play and I didn't recognize him until announcer said his name