Clemson Postgame

[Cusefan0307]

All this talk about Coaching...JJ Starling had 4 points!!!, Sadiq White had 2 points...The guy who has been hurt all year and missed the last 9 games...lead the team with 18 points. The team had only two players score in double digits and got killed by Clemson in the paint. The coach can't put the ball in the hoop...

It’s the coaches job to maximize the talent level and put players in the game that produce. The fact JJ got 34 minutes with the way he was performing yesterday was complete coaching malpractice.

 

[Cuse1055]

You are talking about running sets on offense...as if that is the answer. I saw guys missing wide open jump shots. Basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop and finding a way. We just didn't do that yesterday.

I joked about Dr. Jim but these are the exact same excuses we heard from him for the last 5-6 years of his tenure. “We gotta make shots” was Boeheim’s go-to like Autry’s “You know”.

 

[Dr. Bill]

60% less iso ball. More off ball cuts from sadiq. Pick and pop do betsey off inbound plays. Way more ball movement.

Now, I agree with that. Not enough ball movement is the kiss of death for any offense, but that is the trend in hoops now at all levels..the pick and roll/pop game. It is most affective with players who can can create of the dribble, good mid range scorers and great outside shooting teams when the ball is kicked out to the perimeter...Characteristics none of which Syracuse players seem to have...

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Well, many coaches would have started Freeman and fed him a few early bunny attempts in the paint to get him going. That also would have limited White’s useless early minutes.

They did that. But, Freeman couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. Not surprising given the long period of inactivity.

Many coaches wouldn’t have let Starling play a lousy 31 minutes when both Anthony and Betsey were far more effective in half that playing time.

Many coaches would have schemes to set up Kingz for good shots instead of the offense resorting to pass-and-chuck around the three point line.

You would think your most experienced player wouldn't have such an off day. But, OK.

Not just Kingz, but just about every player had ample opportunities to hit wide open shots. They didn't. Case in point, Freeman's three at the end of the game. Not a soul anywhere near him... clank.

Many coaches would be more prepared defensively coming out of time outs and not give up four easy buckets to the opposition.

The other team is trying to win too, or didn't you know that?

Had we won, the Clemson fans would be roasting their coach for giving up so many points.

As I said to you last night, if you can’t see the deficiencies in this staff after yesterday then there’s no chance you ever will.

By the same token, there's no chance you'll ever acknowledge anything positive about Autry. Even though he won 20 games his first year with a weak roster.

I almost never, ever say that coaching cost a team a game. In any sport. But yesterday we lost because of Red. It was clear as day.

Freeman scores a couple of bunnies in the first half and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Scooch]

John Wooden...I was waiting for that name to pop up. I loved Wooden, studied UCLA basketball since the 1960's. Wooden was a great strategist, but he also had the best talent in college hoops every year. The best evidence of his of his strategic genius was on display during the first two Championship runs..the Walt Hazzard and Goodrich teams, where he pressed all game. That strategy was actually developed by one of his assistants and not Wooden. Much of Wooden's famed full court and half court pressing strategy is not even used today due to the athleticism and speed of today's athletes. Systems work..only if you can recruit players that fit the system you want to run. I don't know what Red's offensive system is. I just know, that for me, i would like to see a lot more ball movement...But, I also see a lot of guys missing wide open jumps shots time after time. This team seems best suited for transition basketball..but guys have to shoot better for any system to work.

Most of our portal additions shot better at their previous school. This has been a consistent trend during Red’s era.

So we either have the worst luck, or maybe, just maybe, Red’s offensive approach is causing these guys to shoot worse.

 

[Scooch]

They did that. But, Freeman couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. Not surprising given the long period of inactivity.

You would think your most experienced player wouldn't have such an off day. But, OK.

Not just Kingz, but just about every player had ample opportunities to hit wide open shots. They didn't. Case in point, Freeman's three at the end of the game. Not a soul anywhere near him... clank.

The other team is trying to win too, or didn't you know that?

Had we won, the Clemson fans would be roasting their coach for giving up so many points.


By the same token, there's no chance you'll ever acknowledge anything positive about Autry. Even though he won 20 games his first year with a weak roster.

Freeman scores a couple of bunnies in the first half and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Yeah you convinced me. Autry is a great coach and excellent program leader. That’s why we’ve been a perennial tourney team since he started.

 

[Scooch]

This team doesn’t get the quality looks that it should.

It’s the players fault.

The excuse making for Red from some folks is laughable. And it’s not just the loonies who do it. There’s a bunch of “respected posters” who still won’t acknowledge that he’s a lousy head coach.

But he’s nice at events.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Yeah you convinced me. Autry is a great coach and excellent program leader. That’s why we’ve been a perennial tourney team since he started.

Didn't say that he is a great coach or program leader. I was replying to your comments.

 

[phil77]

I am not going to argue about Red anymore. I have pointed out in numerous threads over the last two years the things he should be doing different I am not doing it again. Yesterday shined the light on everything Red doesn’t do correctly. If you came away from the game yesterday and still think that coaching isn’t the number 1 problem, then you are just trolling at this point, don’t understand basketball at an X and O level, or related to Red. I will still point out all the things I see wrong but I am not going to argue anymore because most sane people understand now after watching last nights game.

 

[Scooch]

Didn't say that he is a great coach or program leader. I was replying to your comments.

And you were wrong on many of them.

They didn’t set up Freeman with easy shots. They handed him the ball 18-22 feet from the hoop and he took a bunch of leaners and fadeaways.

Starling was lousy and got 34 minutes.

Brownell clowned Red on FOUR time out plays.

Our offense was a stagnant joke.

Red repeatedly put his players in less than ideal spots. That’s the opposite of what a coach is supposed to do.

 

[Blanko97]

Didn't say that he is a great coach or program leader. I was replying to your comments.

Your comment about him not saying anything positive is ridiculous. Like big whoop, won 20 games.How many of those were in the NCAA tournament? I don’t think anyone is saying you’re callling him great but his tenure has been indefensible and a terrible representation of expectations at Syracuse.

 

[Sdot]

Now, I agree with that. Not enough ball movement is the kiss of death for any offense, but that is the trend in hoops now at all levels..the pick and roll/pop game. It is most affective with players who can can create of the dribble, good mid range scorers and great outside shooting teams when the ball is kicked out to the perimeter...Characteristics none of which Syracuse players seem to have...

Also as far as coaching goes. Individually for years under Autry, every player transferring here has gotten worse with shooting %, free throw %, assist/turnover ratio. I just think coaches are trying to get the players to play to the coaching style and not get them to mesh in a way coaches can coach with that play style and players can play there style still.

 

[Knicks411]

I think it’s skewed by his jump in FT shooting which has nothing to do with coaching (or conditioning).

But you know that. And your response didn’t address the intentionally misleading nature of your use of career stats at SU.

Also, his SU high water mark as a Junior was 56% TS, establishing at the very least that a few point swing is normal without any change in coaching/system.

So, let me get this right; your argument to support that he was misused here and fared much better at Clemson is a couple percentage point improvement over expected/likely, bolstered by better FT shooting?


To be extra clear about the hairs we’re splitting here, this evidence that Clemson did such a better job with a 5th year senior is 1 more point per game, in 1 less minute, on 0.5 fewer shots… compared to the same player 2 years less experienced. Defensive metrics don’t point to any noticeable improvement either (and are also notoriously tricky to parse out from team defense). He turned the ball over less at Clemson but also got worse at creating turnovers (steals) and setting up others to score (assists).

Not really I just looked at his shooting stats and they appear to be better in his one year at Clemson than he was here.

His effective fg%, which has nothing to do with his free throws, went from 50.3 his last year here to 56.9 at Clemson (and his best here was 51.5). Again, seems like a pretty big improvement to me.

Fair that I shouldn’t have just used his career stats, he did improve his final few years here. You got me on that one.

My assumption on the steals going down would also be related to playing less zone; we always had guards with a fair amount of steals. And the drop in assists (he was basically flat to his last year here but below the prior years) was somewhat related to playing him more off the ball. But I dunno

 

[Scooch]

By the same token, there's no chance you'll ever acknowledge anything positive about Autry. Even though he won 20 games his first year with a weak roster.

FWIW, I was very complimentary of Red after his first season. The evidence is on this site.

My concerns began before last season, when it became apparent that he utterly botched the offseason and whiffed at properly enhancing his roster using the portal.

That’s why I’m still sarcastically mentioning Dakota Leffew. There was a vast sea of excuses for that horrible program management when Red should have owned that failure.

Now he has all the talent a coach should need to at least eke out a mediocre tourney seed. Yet we seem well on our way to flopping again.

So yes, he harnessed the enigma that was Judah Mintz to go 11-9 in a historically weak ACC and 9-3 against a non-descript OOC slate (aside from the 2 good teams we played, who murdered us). A season when we were not so much as on the tourney bubble at any point. Huzzah.

 

[RedtheGOB]

These convos get all whacky the day after these games ha. I'm willing to say it was 50/50 players and coaches that lost this game. 9 Turnovers for JJ/Nate/Donnie is brutal. All 3 of them missed good looks at the rim. They're supposed to be our guys and weren't for 80% of the game until Donnie went off. If Donnie makes 2 of his bunnies in the 1s half or Nate makes the 2 easy layups he missed or JJ just shows up we win handily.

Autry is the other 50% for obvious reasons on offensive identity and not adjusting.

It was a 1 possession game at the end, we should've won the game on our own court. Autry takes most of the heat because he's the coach and this is a recurring theme. No one is improving and if they dont' dramatically they'll all be gone.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

These convos get all whacky the day after these games ha. I'm willing to say it was 50/50 players and coaches that lost this game. 9 Turnovers for JJ/Nate/Donnie is brutal. All 3 of them missed good looks at the rim. They're supposed to be our guys and weren't for 80% of the game until Donnie went off. If Donnie makes 2 of his bunnies in the 1s half or Nate makes the 2 easy layups he missed or JJ just shows up we win handily.

Autry is the other 50% for obvious reasons on offensive identity and not adjusting.

It was a 1 possession game at the end, we should've won the game on our own court. Autry takes most of the heat because he's the coach and this is a recurring theme. No one is improving and if they dont' dramatically they'll all be gone.

All Red needed to do was play JJ for 15 minutes less, replaced by Kiyan, and we would have won the game. JJ was a disaster yesterday. Red deciding to go with him for the entire game reflects his lack of “feel” for in-game coaching. It’s really that simple.

 

[HyattsCuse]

Case in point, Freeman's three at the end of the game. Not a soul anywhere near him... clank.

Not a soul? Really? 25 footer with a hand in his face. Must have been a ghost.

 

[Scooch]

These convos get all whacky the day after these games ha. I'm willing to say it was 50/50 players and coaches that lost this game. 9 Turnovers for JJ/Nate/Donnie is brutal. All 3 of them missed good looks at the rim. They're supposed to be our guys and weren't for 80% of the game until Donnie went off. If Donnie makes 2 of his bunnies in the 1s half or Nate makes the 2 easy layups he missed or JJ just shows up we win handily.

Autry is the other 50% for obvious reasons on offensive identity and not adjusting.

It was a 1 possession game at the end, we should've won the game on our own court. Autry takes most of the heat because he's the coach and this is a recurring theme. No one is improving and if they dont' dramatically they'll all be gone.

Can’t play the what-if game one way.

Clemson shot 50% from the line and 25% from three. That from a team that was 73% and 33% respectively for those shots coming in.

If they hit a couple more threes or a few more FTs then the game isn’t tieable for Donnie at the end.

 

[CuseTG2003]

Everyone keeps talking about Coaching! What changes or coaching strategies could Red have deployed, that might have changed the outcome? Interested in responses from all the people who think Red coached a bad game.

A clear game plan that’s executed w/ discipline and accountability in the absence of the former would be a good start. We’re playing JV HS ball just w/ bigger and better athletes. Evolution is real.

 

[23Zone]

Perhaps they should make Autry sleep at the Holiday Inn the night before the game

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not a soul? Really? 25 footer with a hand in his face. Must have been a ghost.
View attachment 258413

Kingz in the paint and Kyle at the 3 point line in that shot is moronic.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Kingz in the paint and Kyle at the 3 point line in that shot is moronic.

So bad

 

[IthacaMatt]

Jesse’s Edwards or Judah mintz

I agree that we developed Jesse, but Judah was who he was as a player from Day One.

 

[IthacaMatt]

All this talk about Coaching...JJ Starling had 4 points!!!, Sadiq White had 2 points...The guy who has been hurt all year and missed the last 9 games...lead the team with 18 points. The team had only two players score in double digits and got killed by Clemson in the paint. The coach can't put the ball in the hoop...

Remember what the announcers used to say about JB: "He knows how to create good shots for his players, and he has the right players taking the shots."

 

[IthacaMatt]

You are talking about running sets on offense...as if that is the answer. I saw guys missing wide open jump shots. Basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop and finding a way. We just didn't do that yesterday.

Running sets creates open shots. Just like running plays in football.
You don't play football without running plays, but we play about 30-35 minutes of basketball without running any sets, it seems.