Clemson Postgame

[Day2]

Everyone keeps talking about Coaching! What changes or coaching strategies could Red have deployed, that might have changed the outcome? Interested in responses from all the people who think Red coached a bad game.

Asked and answered.

 

[IthacaMatt]

John Wooden...I was waiting for that name to pop up. I loved Wooden, studied UCLA basketball since the 1960's. Wooden was a great strategist, but he also had the best talent in college hoops every year. The best evidence of his of his strategic genius was on display during the first two Championship runs..the Walt Hazzard and Goodrich teams, where he pressed all game. That strategy was actually developed by one of his assistants and not Wooden. Much of Wooden's famed full court and half court pressing strategy is not even used today due to the athleticism and speed of today's athletes. Systems work..only if you can recruit players that fit the system you want to run. I don't know what Red's offensive system is. I just know, that for me, i would like to see a lot more ball movement...But, I also see a lot of guys missing wide open jumps shots time after time. This team seems best suited for transition basketball..but guys have to shoot better for any system to work.

We have 3 McDonald's AAs, an All-ACC PG, a 4 star 3 point shooter and a 4 star scoring guard.
That's more talent that we've had in almost 20 years.

 

[Scooch]

We have 3 McDonald's AAs, an All-ACC PG, a 4 star 3 point shooter and a 4 star scoring guard.
That's more talent that we've had in almost 20 years.

I guarantee that some of the same folks who said back in September that we upgraded our talent to tourney-level will start disparaging that talent in January. It’s already started in fact. Then they’ll claim our NIL and facilities are insufficient so it’s really not Red’s fault. Will be lots of talk about institutional shortcomings to shift the blame.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not a soul? Really? 25 footer with a hand in his face. Must have been a ghost.
View attachment 258413

So, good catch on that. Donnie was guarded. BUT, there were still 8 seconds left You don't have to take that shot. You've still got time for 2 or 3 more passes to get a better shot.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Can’t play the what-if game one way.

Clemson shot 50% from the line and 25% from three. That from a team that was 73% and 33% respectively for those shots coming in.

If they hit a couple more threes or a few more FTs then the game isn’t tieable for Donnie at the end.

To be fair 3 point defense can be attributed to us playing good 3 point defense, which I thought we were solid all game. Even their 2 late 3's I thought were contested, at least def not open looks they wanted to be taking at that point in the game, their Sr made 2 big shots and ours didn't obvi. They were only on the line 12 times so that free throw % stat is 2 points.

 

[Scooch]

To be fair 3 point defense can be attributed to us playing good 3 point defense, which I thought we were solid all game. Even their 2 late 3's I thought were contested, at least def not open looks they wanted to be taking at that point in the game, their Sr made 2 big shots and ours didn't obvi. They were only on the line 12 times so that free throw % stat is 2 points.

That’s fine, just pointing out that each team has what-ifs. Can’t just look at ours.

I think the result was indicative of each programs current status. Clemson seems to be fairly well coached but has mediocre talent. We have better athletes but a terrible staff.

 

[HyattsCuse]

So, good catch on that. Donnie was guarded. BUT, there were still 8 seconds left You don't have to take that shot. You've still got time for 2 or 3 more passes to get a better shot.

Totally agree. I’ve actually been surprised there hasn’t been more criticism of the last shot. A lot of posts have even been accepting.

No timeouts, but how do you not practice a play or two for those situations? Instead Donnie screens for Nait 30 feet from the basket and gets off a 25 footer with 8.5 on the clock. A panicked, rushed shot with a hand in his face and plenty of time on the clock. That’s on the coach.

 

[RedtheGOB]

That’s fine, just pointing out that each team has what-ifs. Can’t just look at ours.

I think the result was indicative of each programs current status. Clemson seems to be fairly well coached but has mediocre talent. We have better athletes but a terrible staff.

Agreed. This game on it's own under Autry would hardly be a blip on the radar back in the day but considering his last year, Hofstra, mediocre games against other cupcakes, the list goes on; it gets more frustrating for fans still watching.

It's funny because I remember fans talking about Brownell on his own hot seat, He only made the tourney 2 out of his first 10 years as Clemson's coach. Now he's been around the longest and is considered a legit coach.

 

[jgeorge322]

Why does JJ just lose the ball for no reason every single game.

 

[phil77]

No timeouts, but how do you not practice a play or two for those situations? .

Why do you ask questions you already know the answer too?

 

[RedtheGOB]

Totally agree. I’ve actually been surprised there hasn’t been more criticism of the last shot. A lot of posts have even been accepting.

No timeouts, but how do you not practice a play or two for those situations? Instead Donnie screens for Nait 30 feet from the basket and gets off a 25 footer with 8.5 on the clock. A panicked, rushed shot with a hand in his face and plenty of time on the clock. That’s on the coach.

Have to remember that if Clemson makes both the game is iced. He made the 1st to make it 3 and missed the 2nd to give us a chance. Gotta pull down the board first and push it.

I know they were talking before the last free throw, but I think they were more concerned with getting the board and pushing it up the floor just to get a shot.

We haven't had a guy that can make a clutch 3 pointer since Buddy tho so I wasn't excepting much. Might as well put Kiyan out there to take one from the logo, prob would've ended the same as Suare's 3 point attempt.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

But let’s not forget that the mere act of getting JB out the door was very difficult and required a deft touch. If many board members and boosters had their way, Boeheim would still be the coach right now!

The guy said he’d decide when he leaves mere days before he was pushed out. And make no mistake, he was pushed out. But to do so required politics and Red was the means to that end.

That’s the truth.

Our program has a lot to move past from to return to prominence. We are being held back by the people making decisions. Not good.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Our program has a lot to move past from to return to prominence. We are being held back by the people making decisions. Not good.

Oh, they made decisions. They made the wrong decisions.

 

[sdhall01]

John Wooden...I was waiting for that name to pop up. I loved Wooden, studied UCLA basketball since the 1960's. Wooden was a great strategist, but he also had the best talent in college hoops every year. The best evidence of his of his strategic genius was on display during the first two Championship runs..the Walt Hazzard and Goodrich teams, where he pressed all game. That strategy was actually developed by one of his assistants and not Wooden. Much of Wooden's famed full court and half court pressing strategy is not even used today due to the athleticism and speed of today's athletes. Systems work..only if you can recruit players that fit the system you want to run. I don't know what Red's offensive system is. I just know, that for me, i would like to see a lot more ball movement...But, I also see a lot of guys missing wide open jumps shots time after time. This team seems best suited for transition basketball..but guys have to shoot better for any system to work.

Dude, you are being both insufferable and obtuse. You don't know what Red's offensive system is because HE IS A BAD COACH. If you gave Red Michigan State's team, then they sure as hell wouldn't be ranked 9th. You like Red; that's fine. He's done a lot for our school. He is a bad head basketball coach.

Also you have no answer for the pretty clear statistic that players get worse when they're hear and get better when they leave.

 

[RedtheGOB]

I had to do a double check but we scored 11 points in 2:25 seconds at around the 3 minute mark. Probably our best stretch of offense all year at least against a real team when it mattered. That's when you could really see the talent mismatch on display.

What I saw was a PG that did not think about running a set that doesn't work or exist. We just drove to the paint or got the ball to the hot shooter which was Donnie taking shots.

If the coach is not going to coach offense then this is the way they might as well play every game. Fast possessions, just getting it to the hot shooter or mismatch and going to the hoop. Every time we slow down to run something against a reasonable defense we suck on offense.

 

[Cuse1055]

So, good catch on that. Donnie was guarded. BUT, there were still 8 seconds left You don't have to take that shot. You've still got time for 2 or 3 more passes to get a better shot.

Problem is, with our “offense” I’m not so sure we get a better shot. Maybe a corner 3 from Kyle like we saw from Souare (only half kidding lol).

 

[CardiacCuse]

I had to do a double check but we scored 11 points in 2:25 seconds at around the 3 minute mark. Probably our best stretch of offense all year at least against a real team when it mattered. That's when you could really see the talent mismatch on display.

What I saw was a PG that did not think about running a set that doesn't work or exist. We just drove to the paint or got the ball to the hot shooter which was Donnie taking shots.

If the coach is not going to coach offense then this is the way they might as well play every game. Fast possessions, just getting it to the hot shooter or mismatch and going to the hoop. Every time we slow down to run something against a reasonable defense we suck on offense.

this is why i like the full court press bc it makes them play fast and loose on offense

 

[orangecuse]

Why does JJ just lose the ball for no reason every single game.

Ha! Makes Frank Howard look like Darius Garland.

 

[Day2]

Really!!! JJ scores 4 points!! Sadiq White scores 2 points!! Freeman scores 18 points after missing the last month and 9 games...Yet, we should fire Autry! Players have to play! Our "Bigs" got manhandled in the post by Clemson.../that's Coach Autry's fault. Cuse fans are clueless about this game...and they expect just because we are Syracuse, we should win every time out. LOL...The quality of play is on the players...How are you going to win a game when your SR captain and most experienced player...scores only 4 points..in what universe, does that kind of game produce victory?

They did that. But, Freeman couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. Not surprising given the long period of inactivity.

You would think your most experienced player wouldn't have such an off day. But, OK.

Not just Kingz, but just about every player had ample opportunities to hit wide open shots. They didn't. Case in point, Freeman's three at the end of the game. Not a soul anywhere near him... clank.

The other team is trying to win too, or didn't you know that?

Had we won, the Clemson fans would be roasting their coach for giving up so many points.


By the same token, there's no chance you'll ever acknowledge anything positive about Autry. Even though he won 20 games his first year with a weak roster.

Freeman scores a couple of bunnies in the first half and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

How tall are you guys?

 

[baggerbob]

You are talking about running sets on offense...as if that is the answer. I saw guys missing wide open jump shots. Basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop and finding a way. We just didn't do that yesterday.

In case you haven't noticed for the last 3 years Red's teams have had a problem getting the ball in the hoop consistently.

 

[DilemaCuse]

would JB really want some hotshot coming in after him and winning right away?


what if his successor actually won a natty quickly?

might tarnish his legacy

JB wanting red to take over is crazy to me. JB knows basketball so well...he cant think red is a good option here...so then how could he want him?

Im sorry but this post is just soo comical, I had to revisit it. Let me try to answer as best possible.

would JB really want some hotshot coming in after him and winning right away? What's wrong with that? unless your some world class bitter man holding a grudge? Wouldn't he want to see SU bball be healthy? Its not like he got a raw deal, he was pushing 80 years old with a decline in performance. Did Denny Crum hold a grudge when Pitino took over for him? The school and program had to move on at some point. Are we supposed to hire a sucky coach so the program doesn't win too much and Jim's feelings don't get hurt and his ego remains enormous, great strategy. Its Syracuse basketball program, not the Jim Boeheim owned basketball program.

what if his successor actually won a natty quickly? Orange nation would be ecstatic, and wouldn't care what Jim thought and would probably say we should have pushed him out sooner like after the 2nd sanctions in 15. He of course would have to be very complimentary. Was Jim Calhoun jealous of Kevin Ollie's National title, or Hurleys 2 titles?

JB wanting red to take over is crazy to me. JB knows basketball so well...he cant think red is a good option here...so then how could he want him? JB wanted to stay forever and actually preferred GMAC but it wasn't his call, JW was able to handpick AA as a compromise with BOT. We have a BOT that handcuffed JW and we self sanctioned the options available to us, just an abomination of a coach search. One that if I was AD I would resign over. If I'm putting my name on the hire, I better be confident and all bought in and do an exhaustive search. That search wasnt done. JW's statement about Adrian being the best for the job is total lip service that he probably didnt even believe it when he said it and makes him look pathetic and just an empty suit not a real Athletic Director with any power. Autry wasn't even pursued by teams in the NEC, Colonial Athletic, etc but yeah he's the best man for the 6th all time winningest program.

Countdown clock estimate
T minus 71 days till regular season ends

 

[Day2]

Im sorry but this post is just soo comical, I had to revisit it. Let me try to answer as best possible.

would JB really want some hotshot coming in after him and winning right away? What's wrong with that? unless your some world class bitter man holding a grudge? Wouldn't he want to see SU bball be healthy? Its not like he got a raw deal, he was pushing 80 years old with a decline in performance. Did Denny Crum hold a grudge when Pitino took over for him? The school and program had to move on at some point. Are we supposed to hire a sucky coach so the program doesn't win too much and Jim's feelings don't get hurt and his ego remains enormous, great strategy. Its Syracuse basketball program, not the Jim Boeheim owned basketball program.

what if his successor actually won a natty quickly? Orange nation would be ecstatic, and wouldn't care what Jim thought and would probably say we should have pushed him out sooner like after the 2nd sanctions in 15. He of course would have to be very complimentary. Was Jim Calhoun jealous of Kevin Ollie's National title, or Hurleys 2 titles?

JB wanting red to take over is crazy to me. JB knows basketball so well...he cant think red is a good option here...so then how could he want him? JB wanted to stay forever and actually preferred GMAC but it wasn't his call, JW was able to handpick AA as a compromise with BOT. We have a BOT that handcuffed JW and we self sanctioned the options available to us, just an abomination of a coach search. One that if I was AD I would resign over. If I'm putting my name on the hire, I better be confident and all bought in and do an exhaustive search. That search wasnt done. JW's statement about Adrian being the best for the job is total lip service that he probably didnt even believe it when he said it and makes him look pathetic and just an empty suit not a real Athletic Director with any power. Autry wasn't even pursued by teams in the NEC, Colonial Athletic, etc but yeah he's the best man for the 6th all time winningest program.

Countdown clock estimate
T minus 71 days till regular season ends

This can’t be. I was told by a guy who’s seen The Godfather more than once that there was a national search.

 

[DilemaCuse]

We have 3 McDonald's AAs, an All-ACC PG, a 4 star 3 point shooter and a 4 star scoring guard.
That's more talent that we've had in almost 20 years.Yeah but 1 of them has been injured and they just havent been able to play together for multiple years, and

Yeah but 1 was injured and they havent been able to play together for multiple years

and to that I say, welcome to college basketball, buddy

 

[CuseTG2003]

Sadiq was close but not a McD’s AA. Point still stands. We have talent.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Lol some extremely weird posts in this threads. And absolutely 0 credibility.