Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[TexanMark]

omnicarrier. Good guy.

And he posted as Omniorange over at csnbbs.com.

I sent him a message maybe a year ago. He has throttled back posting.

 

[kcsu]

The only question I have about Northwestern is will they commit to the cash spend that I think will be a requirement to get a seat at the big boy table.

For me anyway - the schools that opt in to the P2 are admitting academics is the extra curricular and I'm not sure Northwestern will be down with that.

check out the stadium they are building

 

[TexanMark]

check out the stadium they are building

How nice, they'll make it nice and comfy for the visiting fans.

Northwestern is lucky they are in Chicago and Chicago U. killed FB last century.

 

[Chip]

And he posted as Omniorange over at csnbbs.com.

I sent him a message maybe a year ago. He has throttled back posting.

Always signed off his posts with Cheers, Neil.

Made me want to grab an adult beverage. I guess a lot of things make me want to do that.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

check out the stadium they are building

They can move the Taj Mahal to Chicago and play games there and no one will go. They’re a distant 5th place team in that market. And the teams they compete with are Big Ten schools Illini Wisco Iowa all have cult fanbases.

 

[kcsu]

They can move the Taj Mahal to Chicago and play games there and no one will go. They’re a distant 5th place team in that market. And the teams they compete with are Big Ten schools Illini Wisco Iowa all have cult fanbases.

Personally, I hope that private Universities all do well. SU Vandy, NW, we need to hope for miracles with what is transpiring. Find it odd that we would put down one of the few schools that we have anything in common with in a league some of us pine for.

 

[SU94]

ESPN doesn’t need to renegotiate with the ACC. The contract is the contract, and the GOR is ironclad. These lawsuits don’t change a thing. The ACC isn’t going anywhere for the next few years. ESPN is the rock in this scenario, and FSU and Clemson aren’t squeezing any money out of the rock. And the WWL isnt offering the ACC any additional money, especially not for the sake of soothing the crybabies.

Breaking News:

• Cleveland Browns sue to the ACC as they don't like their contract with Deshaun Watson.
• Washington Nationals sue the ACC, don't want to pay Stephen Strasburg for eight starts since signing extension.
• New York Mets sue the ACC, as they are exhausted by annually cutting checks to Bobby Bonilla.

 

[SU94]

Imagine a world where someone had the best interests of the sport in mind. There’s a solution right there (teams in a 50-60 team league band together to collectively bargain a tv deal, so equal payouts. They have a governing body with teeth that actually cares about parity and cheating).

It’s in the interests of Fox and ESPN to keep the conferences apart so they can’t bargain as a group.

Spot on. The best interest of the sport. It's one reason that the NFL is so strong.

Imagine being a booster or AD and undermining a (let's call it) $2+Billion sport like college football just because your ego/hubris won't allow for making $14Million less than a school from a neighboring state.

I am looking at you FSU, Clemson, USC, UCLA. Texas and Oklahoma too. Do you think Clemson needs another lazy river in its Football Complex or its whiffle ball field is outdated? Dabo might need a 7th defensive analyst, right? I also think it is way better for everyone involved if the cross-country runner from UCLA studies for her chem and psychology exams while flying east over the Rockies to Penn State. Seems like solid rationale.

 

[PhatOrange]

Yeah, but what about your (men's) lacrosse team?

Maybe they should. 2nd or 3rd highest attended championship weekend in college sports.

 

[SU91]

Oh it's a fantastic school. I brought it up in the context of brands and if it's a better national brand than say a Syracuse for viewership eyeballs. I think it is TBH and if it's ultimately a beauty contest for the 60 best tv shows in america for these top 2 leagues, then perhaps Syracuse comes on top of them.

Ultimately no program is safe if it isn't compelling tv for those paying these huge fees to show the games.

Agree about brand. Fingers crossed SU brand still carries eyeballs. Ratings for our games would indicate yes.

 

[SU91]

The only question I have about Northwestern is will they commit to the cash spend that I think will be a requirement to get a seat at the big boy table.

For me anyway - the schools that opt in to the P2 are admitting academics is the extra curricular and I'm not sure Northwestern will be down with that.

This is a good point too Years ago NWU toyed with joining the Ivy League. I don’t think they will choose football over academics. But that BIG10 payout is a lot of cash…..

Anyway, I wouldn’t mind if SU was Northwestern in the BIG. It’s not such a bad life.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Personally, I hope that private Universities all do well. SU Vandy, NW, we need to hope for miracles with what is transpiring. Find it odd that we would put down one of the few schools that we have anything in common with in a league some of us pine for.

Yeah, I don't get the put downs either. Northwestern is where we'd be but for the grace of God. Whatever their shortcomings and/or limitations, they have a seat at the big boy table...we don't.

 

[JRHEETER]

Yeah, I don't get the put downs either. Northwestern is where we'd be but for the grace of God. Whatever their shortcomings and/or limitations, they have a seat at the big boy table...we don't.

We don’t…..yet

 

[Hokie Mark]

I know I'm coming in on the end(?) of this thread, but I have to disagree with those who say the ACC is as good as dead. It will change, but no reason to think it will die. Even if FSU, Clemson, and UNC all leave, there's still plenty of value (think old Big East football, minus WVU but with Georgia Tech, maybe NC State, and the 3 newbies)

 

[jr4750]

I know I'm coming in on the end(?) of this thread, but I have to disagree with those who say the ACC is as good as dead. It will change, but no reason to think it will die. Even if FSU, Clemson, and UNC all leave, there's still plenty of value (think old Big East football, minus WVU but with Georgia Tech, maybe NC State, and the 3 newbies)

agreed and that is where SU will be, alongside the other schools that are left, which is the right spot for us.

That said Hokie, I would think VT could someday be an SEC school.

 

[Ozone!]

 

[Acesn8s]

The Acc might not dissolve but, you wont want your school to be in it. Unfortunately if you do not jump ship you might as well play D2 sports and if that's ok with people there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is revenue gap is impossible to overcome and be competitive. If you do not end up in the power 2 conference you can almost never compete. If The Acc loses 7 or 8 schools you can add whoever you want but you will not be a major player in D1 sports that's just the cold hard facts. Any school who is left behind will be as good as dead. You will not be able to pay recruits the same, you will not be able to keep upgrading facilities, interest in the program will drop, as will ticket sales and additional revenue. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts.

 

[WoadBlue]

I know I'm coming in on the end(?) of this thread, but I have to disagree with those who say the ACC is as good as dead. It will change, but no reason to think it will die. Even if FSU, Clemson, and UNC all leave, there's still plenty of value (think old Big East football, minus WVU but with Georgia Tech, maybe NC State, and the 3 newbies)

I doubt there is anybody in the country who has more hate for the combined BT and SEC monster than I do. I really would not be upset in the slightest if each of their headquarters, nd those of Disney and Fox, got nuked. I do think that there has been a long term plan to kill off the ACC. which featured that overpaying of the Big 12 to keep it afloat until ESPN could pull Texas and OU into the SEC. And the destruction of the Pac also was a long term plan. What we have is BT and SEC deciding that because neither can kill the other, nor even dent it much, they can each gain only by working together to destroy the other 3 of the P5, taking the members they feel are most valuable.

I assume everybody here sees that as the most likely explanation. As to the ACC surviving in some form, I think that will be easier than the Pac surviving, because there is no other 'Big 12' able to absorb 4 ACC properties immediately that neither BT nor SEC wants. If the ACC gets gutted, what we may well see is then ESPN and Fox agreeing to work to shuffle teams to have a second tier of 2 leagues, using the Mississippi as the dividing line. Meaning UCF, Cincy, WVU all go ACC, while Cal, Stanford, and SMU go Big 12.

If that happens, then the new look ACC needs to add USF, to have a 2nd school in FL. It should never consider adding a UConn or Temple. If both UVA and VT are gone, it must add James Madison. If both UNC and NCSU are gone, it probably should add ECU.

Simple facts to make absolute front and center rules for expansion (and/or deletion):
1. Per capita the most die hard CFB TV watching fans are in the South and then the midwest. There are not enough in the Northeast to matter once you get smaller than Pitt and Syracuse.

2. Larger state schools have a much easier time drawing TV viewers than private schools.

3. Schools located in states with large numbers of top recruits have an easier time building and maintaining large TV fan bases than do schools located in states with few top recruits.

4. As in real estate - location, location, location. For D1 CFB, Philly (like Boston) is a very bad location, and CT is even worse. FL and GA are great. WVU is a very much better addition than the average fan may realize not because of WVU alone but because WV borders: OH, PA, MD, and VA - location, location, location.

If Syracuse is able to act in ways that try to recreate a more northerly new ACC, it will act toward its own eventual football undoing. GA Southern and maybe Coastal Carolina and Liberty should be taken ahead of Temple or UConn.

 

[WoadBlue]

The Acc might not dissolve but, you wont want your school to be in it. Unfortunately if you do not jump ship you might as well play D2 sports and if that's ok with people there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is revenue gap is impossible to overcome and be competitive. If you do not end up in the power 2 conference you can almost never compete. If The Acc loses 7 or 8 schools you can add whoever you want but you will not be a major player in D1 sports that's just the cold hard facts. Any school who is left behind will be as good as dead. You will not be able to pay recruits the same, you will not be able to keep upgrading facilities, interest in the program will drop, as will ticket sales and additional revenue. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts.

And all that death is what the damned evil BT and SEC mean to achieve.

And it is what Notre Dame stands by watching.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The Acc might not dissolve but, you wont want your school to be in it. Unfortunately if you do not jump ship you might as well play D2 sports and if that's ok with people there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is revenue gap is impossible to overcome and be competitive. If you do not end up in the power 2 conference you can almost never compete. If The Acc loses 7 or 8 schools you can add whoever you want but you will not be a major player in D1 sports that's just the cold hard facts. Any school who is left behind will be as good as dead. You will not be able to pay recruits the same, you will not be able to keep upgrading facilities, interest in the program will drop, as will ticket sales and additional revenue. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts.

Would you rather be in the 4th best conference where you can actually win it and make the playoffs or would you rather be in the P2 making $125M more per year with no shot at the playoffs?

 

[WoadBlue]

ESPN doesn’t need to renegotiate with the ACC. The contract is the contract, and the GOR is ironclad. These lawsuits don’t change a thing. The ACC isn’t going anywhere for the next few years. ESPN is the rock in this scenario, and FSU and Clemson aren’t squeezing any money out of the rock. And the WWL isnt offering the ACC any additional money, especially not for the sake of soothing the crybabies. They know they are paying under market value right now, and they’re in the catbird seat. The network knows they have the schools over a barrel. It doesn’t matter if Miami and UVA joined the suit. The network is on the side of the conference because it’s one of their prime money making properties. ESPN is protecting the ACC by not giving the SEC any incentives to raid the it, so FSU and Clemson won’t be getting invites from them. The SEC won’t realize any value from such a move…at this point.

ESOPN can refuse to extend the deal, which means at that point the ACC has no TV deal and will be dead if it cannot secure one rather quickly. As the moves to kill the Pac showed to those with eyes to see, ESPN and Fox, SEC and BT act together in this. And now CBS and NBC are minor parts of team BT. That means there would not be any offer from any of them to a released ACC that would be enough to keep FSU or Clemson, etc. They are in collusion to kill the Pac and ACC, at least as Major conferences. So ESPN will only refuse to extend when all the ACC members it wants in the SECm or just away from BT hands have agreed to join the SEC.

We are dealing with people who have the business morality of mafia loan sharks and lawyers.

 

[DoctorBombay]

The Acc might not dissolve but, you wont want your school to be in it. Unfortunately if you do not jump ship you might as well play D2 sports and if that's ok with people there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is revenue gap is impossible to overcome and be competitive. If you do not end up in the power 2 conference you can almost never compete. If The Acc loses 7 or 8 schools you can add whoever you want but you will not be a major player in D1 sports that's just the cold hard facts. Any school who is left behind will be as good as dead. You will not be able to pay recruits the same, you will not be able to keep upgrading facilities, interest in the program will drop, as will ticket sales and additional revenue. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts.

 

[Acesn8s]

Would you rather be in the 4th best conference where you can actually win it and make the playoffs or would you rather be in the P2 making $125M more per year with no shot at the playoffs?

Not sure because that 125 million has long reaching affects throughout your athletic department. If it was that cut and dry I guess I would be happy with my team making the playoffs. But this will trigger problems everywhere,

 

[richmondcuse03]

I doubt there is anybody in the country who has more hate for the combined BT and SEC monster than I do. I really would not be upset in the slightest if each of their headquarters, nd those of Disney and Fox, got nuked. I do think that there has been a long term plan to kill off the ACC. which featured that overpaying of the Big 12 to keep it afloat until ESPN could pull Texas and OU into the SEC. And the destruction of the Pac also was a long term plan. What we have is BT and SEC deciding that because neither can kill the other, nor even dent it much, they can each gain only by working together to destroy the other 3 of the P5, taking the members they feel are most valuable.

I assume everybody here sees that as the most likely explanation. As to the ACC surviving in some form, I think that will be easier than the Pac surviving, because there is no other 'Big 12' able to absorb 4 ACC properties immediately that neither BT nor SEC wants. If the ACC gets gutted, what we may well see is then ESPN and Fox agreeing to work to shuffle teams to have a second tier of 2 leagues, using the Mississippi as the dividing line. Meaning UCF, Cincy, WVU all go ACC, while Cal, Stanford, and SMU go Big 12.

If that happens, then the new look ACC needs to add USF, to have a 2nd school in FL. It should never consider adding a UConn or Temple. If both UVA and VT are gone, it must add James Madison. If both UNC and NCSU are gone, it probably should add ECU.

Simple facts to make absolute front and center rules for expansion (and/or deletion):
1. Per capita the most die hard CFB TV watching fans are in the South and then the midwest. There are not enough in the Northeast to matter once you get smaller than Pitt and Syracuse.

2. Larger state schools have a much easier time drawing TV viewers than private schools.

3. Schools located in states with large numbers of top recruits have an easier time building and maintaining large TV fan bases than do schools located in states with few top recruits.

4. As in real estate - location, location, location. For D1 CFB, Philly (like Boston) is a very bad location, and CT is even worse. FL and GA are great. WVU is a very much better addition than the average fan may realize not because of WVU alone but because WV borders: OH, PA, MD, and VA - location, location, location.

If Syracuse is able to act in ways that try to recreate a more northerly new ACC, it will act toward its own eventual football undoing. GA Southern and maybe Coastal Carolina and Liberty should be taken ahead of Temple or UConn.

Very true. Good advice. Eyeballs and brands matter -- location matters.

Basically, what fanbases will subscribe to dedicated streaming networks?

 

[DoctorBombay]

Would you rather be in the 4th best conference where you can actually win it and make the playoffs or would you rather be in the P2 making $125M more per year with no shot at the playoffs?

2 separate issues, IMO. If you're talking athletics and w-l records, sure you want the 4th best conference and offset some of your financial deficit by making the playoff.
If you're talking long-term, ie; permanent, financial well-being and security, then you're ok with 6-6 records, minor bowls, and a steady paycheck.
Most, of not EVERY program, will opt for the security/financial. It's the smart move.