Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[longtimefan]

Top 15 or whatever in football
Won 2 out of the last 3 NCs in soccer
Ranked 3rd in baseball
Made the tournament in basketball

So a couple I guess...

Yeah, but what about your (men's) lacrosse team?

 

[longtimefan]

Yeah, but what about your (men's) lacrosse team?

 

[orangeinjersey]

We should just skip to the part of this movie where the BIG/SEC become NFL Lite, pay players with million dollar contracts and league minimums. Then the schools that don't want to pay their players can resume to being amatuer athletics and play their regional rivals.

 

[Atlcuse44]

It's not even close to over.

 

[SURules]

We should just skip to the part of this movie where the BIG/SEC become NFL Lite, pay players with million dollar contracts and league minimums. Then the schools that don't want to pay their players can resume to being amatuer athletics and play their regional rivals.

So SU becomes Colgate?

 

[orangeinjersey]

So SU becomes Colgate?

No, SU remains with the ACC also ran misfit of smaller private higher education institutions.

 

[WoadBlue]

Correct, UVA and UNC will be one of the first ones gone to the B10 once the conference eventually implodes which is a matter of when not if. Unfortunate but the writing has been on the wall for the ACC for several years now, enjoy it while we can.

There used to be a poster here who seemed British in certain phrasings. For some reason, it seems to me now that part of his handle was Neil, and that he always ended a post with Cheers.

Anyway, whoever he is, before I ever posted here, he despised me because I was very well known on many ACC boards back to the start of such things at the dawn of the century for saying that the ACC (then 9 members) either would die slowly or else would expand to 12 to have football CCG. In addition, back to then I said that any ACC expansion was doomed to fail to save the league if it added any private school in the north not named Notre Dame.

Football wealth and power are not based on winning. They are based on schools having proven, passionate large fan bases. And the odds are that larger state flagship and/or land grant schools have that in spades, if those schools have a meaningful football history or have a top rival that is such a schools and has such a history.

ND is the only smaller private college that has that kind of football fan base. Miami seemed to have it for a few years, but once Miami dropped down to teams that routinely were worse than 9 wins, the fan base no longer existed. SC is a very large private school (48 K students) but even it loses much of its TV fan base anytime its record is worse than about 8-4.

But the ACC refused to learn any of those lessons because it was focused on that damned basketball tournament, and then with its basketball focus the ACC also decided that the BE doubly proved that if a league had great basketball for both regular season and tournament play, it could be very successful and fully healthy in football with a bunch of private schools and smaller more elite state schools.

They were DEAD Wrong!

The ACC's only chance, assuming ND would remain ND and have no concern except doing what it wanted for itself until it had lost all options and then whoring to the highest bidder) was for the ACC to go to 12 when it added FSU as #9. It then needed immediately to add Miami (then still at its peak for TV numbers), SoCar (which then wanted back in the ACC, which would have kept the SEC out of the Carolinas, and always been a close #3 in the ACC in football average attendance), and VT. That 12 team ACC across the 1990s would have shored up the league way beyond what it was when it finally went to 12 a decade too late. And its basketball focus would have remained within a nice, tight geography of contiguous states. That 12 team league then could have expanded northwest later, starting The Backyard Brawl (Pitt and WVU) and then Louisville and Cincy (the Bearcats are the Cards most played rivals in both revenue sports).

Could those 12, 14, or 16 member ACCs have gotten as much money as the BT or SEC? No. But it would have had such a nice, powerful football presence in and near so many football loving TV audiences and near so much football talent that it would have been largely impregnable.

All of New England is absolute for D1 CFB, and New York state is as about as bad, as is most of eastern PA. If the BT is really smart, it will jettison Rutgers and use that slot to bring in a school worth having at least by being in a much better geography for CFB.

 

[DoctorBombay]

As i've said to you "well the ACC is gonna win let's pile drive em" folks...cut your losses now and just get paid. The inevitable is happening no matter what. Disgruntled teams that make up a bigger and bigger % of the league isn't gonna cut it

Hearing this inevitable news, I can't help but feel like Carole King:
" It's too late baby, now it's too late, though we really did try to make it. Something inside, has died and I can't hide and I just can't fake it".

My fandom keeps being tested. College athletics is stressing my "give a isht" meter to the max

 

[orangemass]

Clemson messing with their acc ref protection program. Wait till they stop getting all the calls

 

[javadoc]

There used to be a poster here who seemed British in certain phrasings. For some reason, it seems to me now that part of his handle was Neil, and that he always ended a post with Cheers.

Anyway, whoever he is, before I ever posted here, he despised me because I was very well known on many ACC boards back to the start of such things at the dawn of the century for saying that the ACC (then 9 members) either would die slowly or else would expand to 12 to have football CCG. In addition, back to then I said that any ACC expansion was doomed to fail to save the league if it added any private school in the north not named Notre Dame.

Football wealth and power are not based on winning. They are based on schools having proven, passionate large fan bases. And the odds are that larger state flagship and/or land grant schools have that in spades, if those schools have a meaningful football history or have a top rival that is such a schools and has such a history.

ND is the only smaller private college that has that kind of football fan base. Miami seemed to have it for a few years, but once Miami dropped down to teams that routinely were worse than 9 wins, the fan base no longer existed. SC is a very large private school (48 K students) but even it loses much of its TV fan base anytime its record is worse than about 8-4.

But the ACC refused to learn any of those lessons because it was focused on that damned basketball tournament, and then with its basketball focus the ACC also decided that the BE doubly proved that if a league had great basketball for both regular season and tournament play, it could be very successful and fully healthy in football with a bunch of private schools and smaller more elite state schools.

They were DEAD Wrong!

The ACC's only chance, assuming ND would remain ND and have no concern except doing what it wanted for itself until it had lost all options and then whoring to the highest bidder) was for the ACC to go to 12 when it added FSU as #9. It then needed immediately to add Miami (then still at its peak for TV numbers), SoCar (which then wanted back in the ACC, which would have kept the SEC out of the Carolinas, and always been a close #3 in the ACC in football average attendance), and VT. That 12 team ACC across the 1990s would have shored up the league way beyond what it was when it finally went to 12 a decade too late. And its basketball focus would have remained within a nice, tight geography of contiguous states. That 12 team league then could have expanded northwest later, starting The Backyard Brawl (Pitt and WVU) and then Louisville and Cincy (the Bearcats are the Cards most played rivals in both revenue sports).

Could those 12, 14, or 16 member ACCs have gotten as much money as the BT or SEC? No. But it would have had such a nice, powerful football presence in and near so many football loving TV audiences and near so much football talent that it would have been largely impregnable.

All of New England is absolute for D1 CFB, and New York state is as about as bad, as is most of eastern PA. If the BT is really smart, it will jettison Rutgers and use that slot to bring in a school worth having at least by being in a much better geography for CFB.

omnicarrier. Good guy.

 

[orange79]

Exactly


Which we found out with the FSU lawsuit, the ACC is in fact willing to negotiate an exit fee…whether they intentionally said you can buy your rights back or not, the cat is out of the bag

Couple questions from this legally-challenged mind.

1. "Which we found out with the FSU lawsuit, the ACC is in fact willing to negotiate an exit fee". What shows that the ACC is willing to settle?
2. Why does the ACC have to settle at all? Could they not stop all payouts to FSU/Clemson and use their own money to fight the lawsuit?

Thanks.

 

[kcsu]

I know FSU talking heads thought it was a great victory when the ACC confirmed they would accept a market value settlement for an ACC school that wanted to leave.

I am not a lawyer but I suspect that the when you have a contract and there is a clear value for it, and a side wants out you have to accept that market value to buy out the contract.

There is a clear value for each ACC school that signed the GOR contract. It is the total value left on the contract, divided by 14, plus the exit fee. I believe the GOR value is $529 million and the exit fee $140 million. I don’t think anyone disagrees with this except FSU. FSU says because they should get c more than 1/14 of the TV money because they bring more value than the other ACC schools. 1/14 is a little more than 7%. If the court agrees with FSU’s contention they are worth more like 15% of the total value of the TV contract, that $529 more than doubles.

All the ACC did was say that yes, if they are presented with a fair buyout value from an ACC school, they will accept it. That shows the court they are acting in good faith and are reasonable.

Again I have never seen any legal expert not affliated with FSU say anything other than the ACC is going to win the lawsuit. If they do, I have yet to hear anyone explain a decent reason why the ACC would negotiate a dramatically lower exit fee from the conference. The only thing I have heard is that ‘discovery would be a nightmare’. Sorry, I don’t think any murders or major scandals would ensue if the lawsuit runs to completion. The ACC has an overwhelmingly strong case and is going to win.

Legal experts, please weigh in and explain to me where I am wrong on this.

I like the ACCs position

 

[OrangePA]

Clemson!

They signed an agreement.

If they want to go, let them go - and keep the money they promised to leave with the ACC.

I do not wish them well.

 

[gbo]

Threw that last one in there, ouch hurts , used our player to help get there. Double ouch !!

Sorry brother

 

[gbo]

Huh. Well, they allege that "[t]he ACC's actions interfere with Clemson's free exercise of its rights and are fatally detrimental to Clemson's efforts to ensure that its athletic programs can continue to compete at the highest level, which is critically important to Clemson even beyond athletics..."

So are they successful or is their "fatal" demise imminent? I agree with you they've had a lot of success. So what's their argument for leaving?

The demise is here for all of us. It's all business now. It's sucks.

 

[JRHEETER]

Couple questions from this legally-challenged mind.

1. "Which we found out with the FSU lawsuit, the ACC is in fact willing to negotiate an exit fee". What shows that the ACC is willing to settle?
2. Why does the ACC have to settle at all? Could they not stop all payouts to FSU/Clemson and use their own money to fight the lawsuit?

Thanks.

In their statement they said that FSU was welcome to “buy their media rights” back and that there was no exit fee.

Here’s a direct quote…

“If Florida State wishes to regain control of the rights before the end of the term, it could attempt to repurchase them. But having to buy back a right which was assigned is not a penalty; it is simply a commercial possibility. Paying a fair price for rights that were previously transferred cannot be a “penalty” under any reasonable definition of the term.”

 

[orange79]

In their statement they said that FSU was welcome to “buy their media rights” back and that there was no exit fee.

Here’s a direct quote…

“If Florida State wishes to regain control of the rights before the end of the term, it could attempt to repurchase them. But having to buy back a right which was assigned is not a penalty; it is simply a commercial possibility. Paying a fair price for rights that were previously transferred cannot be a “penalty” under any reasonable definition of the term.”

Thanks. Missed that.

Any thoughts on my second question? I mean, if the league is convinced the GOR is ironclad, could they take a vote (and win 13/15) to withhold payouts (ostensibly in advance of a buyout of rights)?

 

[ImperialOrange]

Clemson messing with their acc ref protection program. Wait till they stop getting all the calls

Was thinking about this re: ACC refs no longer protecting or even biased calls against FSU or Clemson. How many 6-6 or worse seasons are people away from not caring about Clemson or Florida State on a national level once again?

Noone outside of those states really care about Gators or Gamecocks now that they're mediocre and they're already in the SEC and deliver the markets.

 

[TexanMark]

Don’t forget Rutgers has that for b10

Does Rutgers drive instate BTN rates in all of NYS?

 

[TexanMark]

If the ACC can just hold together until the Big 12 media deal comes up, we'll be in a stronger position. Arizona, ASU, Utah and Colorado couldn't command a good deal when it was in a conference with Oregon, Washington, USC and UCLA. They're suddenly going to be world beaters with Iowa State, UCF and Cincinnati?

The Big 12 and ACC should just merge once we learn who is leaving the ACC.

I think merger is probably the best option at this point. Try a schedule where you play certain rivals every year and others on a rotation.

 

[kcsu]

How can a school be harmed when they are in a conference where everyone is treated equally. If they win their conference they get into the playoffs in all sports? The school doesn't pay players so their on equal NIL footing. The ACC network and TV contracts provides excellent exposure. Better than most leagues. The ACC rules are extremely fair relative to the other conferences. They have won multiple national championship resulting from their membership in the ACC.
Yet they are harmed.
them FSU. If I'm the ACC I take this the whole way. I don't ever settle and I take the gloves off and Sue them for breaching their agreement, damaging member schools, putting the league in a competitive disadvantage when it comes to everything possible. Grants, advertising, enrollment ect... take them both to the Matt. Drain them financially. Drag their ADs, coaches, administrators, trustees through discovery. their eyes out. I wish this were a corporate deal as I'd love to be a part of it.

 

[Toga]

How can a school be harmed when they are in a conference where everyone is treated equally. If they win their conference they get into the playoffs in all sports? The school doesn't pay players so their on equal NIL footing. The ACC network and TV contracts provides excellent exposure. Better than most leagues. The ACC rules are extremely fair relative to the other conferences. They have won multiple national championship resulting from their membership in the ACC.
Yet they are harmed.
them FSU. If I'm the ACC I take this the whole way. I don't ever settle and I take the gloves off and Sue them for breaching their agreement, damaging member schools, putting the league in a competitive disadvantage when it comes to everything possible. Grants, advertising, enrollment ect... take them both to the Matt. Drain them financially. Drag their ADs, coaches, administrators, trustees through discovery. their eyes out. I wish this were a corporate deal as I'd love to be a part of it.

I need a cigarette.

 

[007]

I need a cigarette.

Admit it Toga...it was the " their eyes out" part, wasn't it

 

[Orangefan1]

I am confident we won’t be left out in the cold

 

[orange_in_VA]

There used to be a poster here who seemed British in certain phrasings. For some reason, it seems to me now that part of his handle was Neil, and that he always ended a post with Cheers.

Anyway, whoever he is, before I ever posted here, he despised me because I was very well known on many ACC boards back to the start of such things at the dawn of the century for saying that the ACC (then 9 members) either would die slowly or else would expand to 12 to have football CCG. In addition, back to then I said that any ACC expansion was doomed to fail to save the league if it added any private school in the north not named Notre Dame.

Football wealth and power are not based on winning. They are based on schools having proven, passionate large fan bases. And the odds are that larger state flagship and/or land grant schools have that in spades, if those schools have a meaningful football history or have a top rival that is such a schools and has such a history.

ND is the only smaller private college that has that kind of football fan base. Miami seemed to have it for a few years, but once Miami dropped down to teams that routinely were worse than 9 wins, the fan base no longer existed. SC is a very large private school (48 K students) but even it loses much of its TV fan base anytime its record is worse than about 8-4.

But the ACC refused to learn any of those lessons because it was focused on that damned basketball tournament, and then with its basketball focus the ACC also decided that the BE doubly proved that if a league had great basketball for both regular season and tournament play, it could be very successful and fully healthy in football with a bunch of private schools and smaller more elite state schools.

They were DEAD Wrong!

The ACC's only chance, assuming ND would remain ND and have no concern except doing what it wanted for itself until it had lost all options and then whoring to the highest bidder) was for the ACC to go to 12 when it added FSU as #9. It then needed immediately to add Miami (then still at its peak for TV numbers), SoCar (which then wanted back in the ACC, which would have kept the SEC out of the Carolinas, and always been a close #3 in the ACC in football average attendance), and VT. That 12 team ACC across the 1990s would have shored up the league way beyond what it was when it finally went to 12 a decade too late. And its basketball focus would have remained within a nice, tight geography of contiguous states. That 12 team league then could have expanded northwest later, starting The Backyard Brawl (Pitt and WVU) and then Louisville and Cincy (the Bearcats are the Cards most played rivals in both revenue sports).

Could those 12, 14, or 16 member ACCs have gotten as much money as the BT or SEC? No. But it would have had such a nice, powerful football presence in and near so many football loving TV audiences and near so much football talent that it would have been largely impregnable.

All of New England is absolute for D1 CFB, and New York state is as about as bad, as is most of eastern PA. If the BT is really smart, it will jettison Rutgers and use that slot to bring in a school worth having at least by being in a much better geography for CFB.

The ACC wouldn't even accept Louisville until their hand was forced. ACC snob Presidents didn't want the stink of WVU/Ville on their schools. Cincinnati would have been snubbed in the before times too. This is delusional fan fiction.