Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[Toga]

Admit it Toga...it was the " their eyes out" part, wasn't it

 

[PeteCalvin]

At what point does the ”mouse” (Disney/ESPN) renegotiate the existing contract with the ACC and give it more money to keep an asset from dissolving? ESPN is making good $$ on the ACC and that could just go away.

Also, I can see the ACC going more and more to an incentive based payout based upon performance. If they just guarantee more $$ to Clemson and FSU that is greater than the rest, the conference is a dead man walking as it will fall apart.

ESPN doesn’t need to renegotiate with the ACC. The contract is the contract, and the GOR is ironclad. These lawsuits don’t change a thing. The ACC isn’t going anywhere for the next few years. ESPN is the rock in this scenario, and FSU and Clemson aren’t squeezing any money out of the rock. And the WWL isnt offering the ACC any additional money, especially not for the sake of soothing the crybabies. They know they are paying under market value right now, and they’re in the catbird seat. The network knows they have the schools over a barrel. It doesn’t matter if Miami and UVA joined the suit. The network is on the side of the conference because it’s one of their prime money making properties. ESPN is protecting the ACC by not giving the SEC any incentives to raid the it, so FSU and Clemson won’t be getting invites from them. The SEC won’t realize any value from such a move…at this point.

 

[TexanMark]

ESPN also isn't going to help the Brat 2 leave for the B1G

 

[Sherman20]

They do now but what does it look like after Clemson, FSU, UNC and UVA bolt? The teams left are going to be looking for stability, the ACC wont have anyone to add that remotely moves the needle. B12 can likely re-open its deal if it adds additional schools and could add a whole new part of the country.

Why wouldn't the opposite happen and the ACC add some of the better Big 12 schools?

 

[baggerbob]

ESPN doesn’t need to renegotiate with the ACC. The contract is the contract, and the GOR is ironclad. These lawsuits don’t change a thing. The ACC isn’t going anywhere for the next few years. ESPN is the rock in this scenario, and FSU and Clemson aren’t squeezing any money out of the rock. And the WWL isnt offering the ACC any additional money, especially not for the sake of soothing the crybabies. They know they are paying under market value right now, and they’re in the catbird seat. The network knows they have the schools over a barrel. It doesn’t matter if Miami and UVA joined the suit. The network is on the side of the conference because it’s one of their prime money making properties. ESPN is protecting the ACC by not giving the SEC any incentives to raid the it, so FSU and Clemson won’t be getting invites from them. The SEC won’t realize any value from such a move…at this point.

Actually this is good for SU, it gives Fran time to get the program back to being very good to great.
That would put us in shape to be part of the next players added to the big 2. They really need about 72 teams. 8 conference's of 9 teams each, and 16 conference games. That way you get home and home every year and build. rivalries.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I don't want to be in the SEC or Big Ten and love the idea of being best of the rest.

Hopefully these two scumbag institutions stop getting every call against us. If I could push a button and blow up the refs who threw that flag on the 4th down blocked punt scramble vs UNC and the targeting overturn vs Clemson I'd to it 10x out of 10 the most crooked fixed garbage I've ever watched. ACC sucks even the teams who get coddled think so. $$$ wise its still not that bad and again I'm not desperate to become Vandy north or Northwestern east.

 

[DustyMoore]

I feel like this is all orchestrated. they didn't wake up today and say "great day to dissolve a conference"

I feel like they are doing the dirty work (FSU/Clemson) and smoothing it over for the ascot wearing UVA/UNC to soft shoe out when this thing starts to smolder...i have a very cynical feeling this is the foot soldiers taking the bullets for the blue bloods who want out

Respectfully, while I cannot speak for FSU, I am confident that Clemson has no interest in smoothing anything over for the benefit of either UVA or UNC. I would be surprised if this were the last suit to be filed against the ACC for similar claims which Clemson has noted.

On your first point… you are absolutely correct and this has been in the works for quite sometime. One important aspect is that the process was done discreetly to not allow the ACC to preemptively file its own lawsuit in order to secure the upper hand in the important jurisdictional battle.

 

[DustyMoore]

100% of the sports that matter.

You beat me to it…

To not appear so one sided..
Basketball: Just made the tourney
Baseball: currently a top 5 team
Soccer: won National titles in ‘21 & ‘23

 

[HtownOrange]

Just a few quick thoughts on Clemson's suit:

1) It's filed incorrectly in SC. Plainly, there are two cases in two other states. NC is the proper state and is the first. SC courts should defer to the first filing.
2) The case defeats FSU's case by denying an fiduciary duty.
3) Clemson makes the argument that the GOR only applies while Clemson is in the ACC, not after; while this is a generously favorable approach to Clemson's position, it is highly inaccurate as ESPN holds the rights and the GOR is good through 2036, the rights can only go where ESPN allows the rights to go. Big money will be required to pull the rights away from ESPN.
4) There are two major bodies of law and they happen to strengthen each other: 1) Contract law, and 2) Copyright law. Simply put, the arguments are baseless and not likely to affect an high court ruling. Sure, a home cooked state court MAY give FSU or CU a favorable ruling, but the state high courts are not likely to tempt fate and have SCOTUS make the decision which would likely overturn well established case law.
5) Clemson has to admit they are doing this for the money. Nothing less. This defeats their own arguments. A bad bargain is still a bad bargain.
6) Though Clemson does a much better job of wriggling, they do not escape as they incorporate the ESPN agreement (which defeats the FSU arguments because FSU tries to ignore ESPN hoping for an SEC landing spot). Clemson admits the ESPN deal is a part of the contract and then argues that they can leave anyway. When a contract incorporates another document, that document has the same weight as the contract, it is part of the contract, not merely another document. This is Clemson's error and not likely to stand.
7) Kudos to Clemson for admitting they signed the GOR twice. However, this proves that Clemson cannot claim ignorance in the bargain. They couldn't anyway, but at least Clemson does not portray themselves as ignorant morons who got suckered twice into making a bad bargain.
8) The redacted portions are interesting as Clemson essentially tries to argue that the ESPN agreement allows them to leave. Obviously we do not know for sure. What we do know is that copyright laws have been upheld throughout history, this does not fare well for Clemson.
9) Clemson then argues the withdrawal fee is exorbitant. The problem is they agreed to it. They had plenty of time to dispute it. Even if they could argue it, the statute of limitations should apply making their arguments moot.
10) Clemson makes a far better argument for the withdrawal fee being exorbitant. but leave out some key points and whitewash others. The B1G schools actually own a portion of their network individually as schools. Both the SEC and the B1G are the top dogs and need less liquidated damages.
11) Clemson's best argument is their non-fiduciary argument. Without actually stating it plainly, they argue that contracts are at arms length, which is true. However, the point is likely moot as the the contract law and copyright law do not require a fiduciary relationship.

On the bright side,
1) the argument basically admits the FSU filings are garbage. This filing will probably be used against FSU.
2) The FSU claim that ESPN can walk away in 2027 is only likely going to happen. First, ESPN is making money, the only MM division doing so right now. Second, there would be no need for this suit if ESPN was thinking of dumping the ACCN. Third, if ESPN loses the GOR all GORs are garbage. Fourth, this positions Fax in a stronger position to squeeze ESPN out of the northeast in College sports (read: hoops and football). With the BTN owned in part by each school (recall they must "BUY IN" to the BTN, they are most likely to stay together. The SEC is likely to stay together as long as the money is there. Only the BTN could lure them away.

Anyway, SU is in the fourth most populace state with powerful legislators. VA and NC are also from populous states with powerful legislators. Ignoring any of them is a hazard unto itself. Any of these three are sufficient enough to start Congressional intervention, which would make the present nonsense appear reasonable. Plus SU has history, is a draw, and adds to PSU's need for more eastern teams.

 

[Cheriehoop]

How much of Clemson’s elite football status is based on Dabo Swinney as their coach since 2008 with a 170-43 record? Before him Tommy Bowden and Tommy West had a combined record of 103-73 the previous 16 years. What if Swinney leaves?

 

[SmilinBob]

It's interesting timing that Clemson did this right after the new playoff $ was announced. That could have been the last straw to the ego.

 

[Consigliere]

Does Rutgers drive instate BTN rates in all of NYS?

In none on NYS

 

[Millhouse]

In fairness, it was valuable to advertisers because of scale. It’s been cheaper for Bojangles to buy a league wide sponsorship, hit all of their target markets, and endure the inefficiency of also hitting upstate NY western PA and eastern MA.

Just like it was cheaper a few years back for Chick-Fil-A to buy national ads in college football even if it meant reaching markets that didn’t have a restaurant.

Obviously the issue now is that “cable” is collapsing and there’s more value in brands than markets, for the most part. Which is to say that Rutgers and BC were very lucky to have gotten expansion bids when they did.

Some other company that has customers in all the acc markets should've been willing to pay more than Bojangles. Chik fil a probably expanded to many of those markets shortly after the ads.

I get the impression that the acc is rinky dink in their operations. No good reason to say that, just a hunch.

 

[orlandoorange]

How much of Clemson’s elite football status is based on Dabo Swinney as their coach since 2008 with a 170-43 record? Before him Tommy Bowden and Tommy West had a combined record of 103-73 the previous 16 years. What if Swinney leaves?

Exactly. They've had their moments, but they got hot at the right time. It's not a huge school but they have a great fan base.

 

[TheCusian]

Clemson is high on their own supply, like FSU.

Are these schools more valuable to ESPN in the SEC? Their departure devalues the ACC more than their addition adds value to the SEC.

Legal fees alone probably mess up the math for 10 years lol

 

[SU91]

I don't want to be in the SEC or Big Ten and love the idea of being best of the rest.

Hopefully these two scumbag institutions stop getting every call against us. If I could push a button and blow up the refs who threw that flag on the 4th down blocked punt scramble vs UNC and the targeting overturn vs Clemson I'd to it 10x out of 10 the most crooked fixed garbage I've ever watched. ACC sucks even the teams who get coddled think so. $$$ wise its still not that bad and again I'm not desperate to become Vandy north or Northwestern east.

Don’t know why people always bring up Northwestern. They’ve been to multiple bowl games over the past 20 yrs. They played for the BIG10 Championship a couple of years ago. They have the best facilities. Their entire team was blown up last year but they still made a bowl game and beat a legit P4 program! I’d like a bit of their success. I guess old perceptions from fifty years ago die hard, kind of like how most college football fans think SU is the same SU under Robinson.

 

[elimunelson]

Don’t know why people always bring up Northwestern. They’ve been to multiple bowl games over the past 20 yrs. They played for the BIG10 Championship a couple of years ago. They have the best facilities. Their entire team was blown up last year but they still made a bowl game and beat a legit P4 program! I’d like a bit of their success. I guess old perceptions from fifty years ago die hard, kind of like how most college football fans think SU is the same SU under Robinson.

Oh it's a fantastic school. I brought it up in the context of brands and if it's a better national brand than say a Syracuse for viewership eyeballs. I think it is TBH and if it's ultimately a beauty contest for the 60 best tv shows in america for these top 2 leagues, then perhaps Syracuse comes on top of them.

Ultimately no program is safe if it isn't compelling tv for those paying these huge fees to show the games.

 

[Chip]

It must be nice to be Clemson (and to a lesser extent FSU) and know what they have in their obsessive fan bases.

They're going to spend a material amount on legal fees, best case get a negotiated down buy out, then spend money on that buyout. Then ideally get in a league that will pay them even more money.

And before, during, and after all this, will ask their fan base to buy tickets to games, donate money for facility modernizations, and supply the funds to pay the players. And they'll do it.

 

[elimunelson]

It must be nice to be Clemson (and to a lesser extent FSU) and know what they have in their obsessive fan bases.

They're going to spend a material amount on legal fees, best case get a negotiated down buy out, then spend money on that buyout. Then ideally get in a league that will pay them even more money.

And before, during, and after all this, will ask their fan base to buy tickets to games, donate money for facility modernizations, and supply the funds to pay the players.

the bigger irony is they'll end up in BIG or SEC and won't get the same payout as the other teams. It'll ultimately be a moot point for probably 20 years in terms of break even (maybe more).

mouth breathers will mouth breath remember down south

 

[Newhouser]

How much of Clemson’s elite football status is based on Dabo Swinney as their coach since 2008 with a 170-43 record? Before him Tommy Bowden and Tommy West had a combined record of 103-73 the previous 16 years. What if Swinney leaves?

that is what is crazy about all of this - they aren't Alabama (who may come back to earth too). None of these schools are immune to a bad hire, and falling into oblivion.

That said I don't think its about success - I think its culture and the value placed on college football by the institutions that will form the end all alliance.

 

[Newhouser]

Don’t know why people always bring up Northwestern. They’ve been to multiple bowl games over the past 20 yrs. They played for the BIG10 Championship a couple of years ago. They have the best facilities. Their entire team was blown up last year but they still made a bowl game and beat a legit P4 program! I’d like a bit of their success. I guess old perceptions from fifty years ago die hard, kind of like how most college football fans think SU is the same SU under Robinson.

The only question I have about Northwestern is will they commit to the cash spend that I think will be a requirement to get a seat at the big boy table.

For me anyway - the schools that opt in to the P2 are admitting academics is the extra curricular and I'm not sure Northwestern will be down with that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

ESPN isn't allowing them to blow up the ACC to go to the SEC and ruin that investment so they better hope they have an invite to the big. I'm not sure they do. I think some here think there situation is a lot better than it is considering we have been talking about this for at least 5 years.

 

[David321]

The only two sports I follow, golf and ACC football and I have no idea which direction either are going. Can’t make this stuff up.

 

[TexanMark]

 

[TheCusian]

Imagine a world where someone had the best interests of the sport in mind. There’s a solution right there (teams in a 50-60 team league band together to collectively bargain a tv deal, so equal payouts. They have a governing body with teeth that actually cares about parity and cheating).

It’s in the interests of Fox and ESPN to keep the conferences apart so they can’t bargain as a group.